The problem of the statement of “never saved to begin with”

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Dec 18, 2021
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You are right in certain ways.

But although rare, it DOES happen people can change their mind on an issue. I am a testament to that on this issue.
Me also..

At one time I used to think my behavior, or sin, could at some point result in my loss of Salvation. This is destructive thinking for many reasons, and actually results in a believer committing MORE sin as they try not to sin, resulting in constant unsurety if that last sin broke the camel's back.
This is counterintuitive to human reasoning. The Holy Spirit through loving, mature believers, and the Word, opened my eyes to the folly of that doctrine many yrs ago.

The whole purpose of the Law, which Paul refers to as the "ministry of death" because NO ONE can keep it and anyone attempting to justify themselves by trying to keep it will eternally die, is to point people to Jesus Christ.

Once the impetus to try as hard as I could not sin was removed, I began to sin LESS! I know. Completely counterintuitive to human logic! But as I relied more and more on JESUS to keep me saved, the pressure was off ME trying to help Jesus keep me saved, resulting in the freedom Scripture talks about.
Amen.. so true. thats why we read in the good book how Jesus and paul went to war against these thinkings..
So to some extent you are right about debates going on and on, but there are many people who sit on the sidelines not saying anything, just watching and reading, who may be deeply confused on an important issue like this one. It's not about winning an argument with the person you are engaging. It's about getting information and views out to the audience at large. And who knows? Maybe through the Holy Spirit you CAN get that person to see error.
And again, I agree.. Its also for the sake of others who may be reading..
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
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thank you and I agree


I will ask you the same question I asked another poster. correct me if I am wrong. or help me understand

How can one claim they are not depending on themselves IF they claim that the final salvation is dependent on what they do or do not do. or as you just said, it depends on US CONTINUING? or ABIDING? or not losing FAITH?

I will add to my post to you since you have mentioned it, that you have to Co-Operate with God. or work on your salvation (all of you)


is this not all dependent on you? Help me make it make sense. because it does not.

This may not be the best day for this. I will likely be in and out and have limited time today. We'll see. But I wanted to let you know I read and appreciate the post.

Let me ask you one question, if I may; Do you believe that men choose to believe in or to reject God and/or Jesus Christ?
 
Mar 8, 2025
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Agree conceptually. Might have to clarify the context of 2Cor1:10.

Again, mostly agreed. Completely agreed with the earning and depending on self parts.
Although I still believe our redemption has a BEGINNING point, a subsequent period of GROWTH as well as a future time of CONSUMMATION I now think 2 Corinthians 1:10 is not the place to anchor that belief since it could just as easily be referring to the life of Paul. However, the scriptures do support the idea that the life of God in us has a BEGINNING when it is implanted in us, followed by a period of GROWTH when we gradually become more like Him and finally by a consummation when we "see him as He is."
 

Lamar

Well-known member
May 21, 2023
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After all these pages and the atmosphere replies have generated I've arrived at the question, what are we really doing here?

The OP poses a question. And we answer based on our own understanding of the Bible.

We each live our faith. And we try to lead others to believe as we do. And expect those to whom we post will concede we are right and by that concession admit they are wrong.

Rarely does someone say that. "You are right. I was reading that passage the wrong way."

Instead, we all act as though we want to win the argument.

And how do we talk to one another in the coarse of all this?

We wonder why the church,Christian individuals, is divided. I think we can see why in these many pages.

Love God. Live peace.
ESV 1st Cor. 11:19
for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.

I have no problem with factions, they must exist.

It is the constant name calling that is the problem.

So many here have called the anti-OSAS group as work-salvationist. This is troubling and out of line.

On the other hand, I do not see the OSAS groups being accused of pushing a license to sin.
 
Feb 15, 2025
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ESV 1st Cor. 11:19
for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.

I have no problem with factions, they must exist.

It is the constant name calling that is the problem.

So many here have called the anti-OSAS group as work-salvationist. This is troubling and out of line.

On the other hand, I do not see the OSAS groups being accused of pushing a license to sin.
OSAS,for any who actually read the Bible here rather than copy and paste verses they think give that impression, KNOW that it is a matter of the covenant Jesus died to bring to this world.

Those who don't know the Bible as intended by Holy Spirit wrongly insist,repeatedly,that eternal irrevocable salvation and life in Christ,OSAS, means we can make a habit of sinning.

That's false .
And Jesus tells us why that is.

So the ridiculous anti-gospel slur that insists we have a license to sin being we are saved once and eternally is, in my view, a confession of the unbelievers . Who never actually read the word so to know the words they espouse against eternal irrevocable salvation are known to be false.