If sin is not imputed without the law, how can some claim that babies and children die because Adam's sin is imputed to them?

[Pilgrimshope]

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, on the basis of which (eph' hOi) all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Rom 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

If we assume that original sin is a thing, then Romans 5:13-14 would seem to be a lie. Original sin asserts that sin (the sin of Adam) is imputed to all, including those who lived between Adam and Moses. But Rom. 5:13-15 tells us that sin was not being imputed to anyone when there was no law, nevertheless all died when there was no law. So, the cause of their deaths cannot have been imputed sin, whether the sin of Adam or the sin/s of the person dying.
This text says that death for all Adam's progeny was imposed as a consequence of Adam's sin. It does not say Adam's sin was imputed to his progeny.

What does Paul mean by "had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's sin? He means that they had not knowingly broken a law specifically given to them by God. And there were many such sinners before the law: sinners who acted without faith in God, but did not know of the specific divine expectations they were transgressing against.
Adam is a type of Christ, in that the consequence of Adam's sin (death/mortality/limited life spans) was placed upon all his progeny without their being imputed with Adam's own sin; and the consequences of Jesus' righteousness, His resurrection from the dead , is placed on all His progeny (believers), or perhaps all His siblings (mankind) without His own righteousness being imputed to us/them.


So how do others deal with Romans 5:13-15?

Adams sin isn’t imputed that’s a common misinterpretation people do because they sinned not because Adam sinned. Adams sin introduced death into the world but men die because they also have sinned

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In the ot sometimes generations were punished for thier ancestors transgressions

Here’s an example

“thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But the New Testament offers a personal atonement not by group but personal to each person and promises that each person would only be held accountable for what they themselves had done here’s an example of the new concept that was coming with the New Testament which can save repentant sinners

“Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.( note the opposite nature of if they sin they’ll surely die )

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. ( what a promise of life even for those that have sinned )

All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:19-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The New Testament is a New Testament it’s not the same as the old we have a personal savior and lord a personal atonement for our sins and a personal call from the lord to repent and believe the gospel because remission of our sins that we have commited is the result

 

[Genez]

Because I believe Paul is saying no-one's personal sin was imputed to them at birth, having no law to know the difference (v.13). We inherited a corruption that is in the flesh from Adam because he sinned and that leads to death.

A baby dies, not because their sin is imputed to them, but because Adam's sin has corrupted them. Therefore all die in Adam even when their own sin is not counted against them.

Well said!

 

[PaulThomson]

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Law = It's one thing to commit a sin without the law. No ramification.

It is another matter, being by nature what is opposed to God by DNA. = Fallen nature.

Without the Law, no man was punished for his sins.
Yet?
Without the Law, those who rejected the Lord were sent to Hell after they died.

No one goes to Hell for their sins. They go for their rejection of the drawing of God.

The text does not say that there are no ramifications for sin before the law came. Sin had consequences. But it was not added as a debt to the record by which the man would be judged after death. However, even before the law, if one sowed to the flesh, one reaped corruption in this life. That appears to have been a ramification, before the law, of sin in this life.

The text does not say anything about developing a nature that is opposed to God because of corrupted DNA.

Going to hades happened to every person. Some to a part of hades that was comfortable and in Jesus' day called Abraham's bosom; and after the law came, and sin began to be imputed, some went to a part of hades that was hot and thirsty.

 

[PaulThomson]

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Adams sin isn’t imputed that’s a common misinterpretation people do because they sinned not because Adam sinned. Adams sin introduced death into the world but men die because they also have sinned

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬ [/QUOTE[

If God is imposing death on individuals because those individuals have sinned, then their death is a recompense for their own sins, and their own sins must be being credited/imputed/reckoned to them in order for death to be the consequence of them. But then sin would have been being imputed before the law came; not Adam's sin, to be sure, but their own sins would have been being imputed to them. And this seems to contradict the verses in question.

There is no future tense in OT Hebrew. There is an imperfective tense (describing progressive actions which may be either past, present or future, depending on context) and a perfective tense (describing completed actions (which may be either past, present or future, depending on context)

Eze 18:2
What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers were/are will be eating (Qal imperfective) sour grapes, and the children's teeth were/are/will be being set on edge (Qal imperfective)?
Eze 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that is sinning (Qal active participle feminine singular absolute), [that one] was/is/will be (Qal imperfective) [in the process of] dying.

The historical context is an impending threat that Israelites will be attacked and slain by their enemies because of their treason against Yahweh. It is not a metaphysical treatise on the eternal consequences if sin being spiritual death. It is about a historical crises and how it is playing out historically in real time.
The proverb is describing the fathers in the process of eating sour grapes, but the effect of their eating being that the children are having their teeth set on edge.
The Lord's contradiction of this proverb, is therefore that the fathers in the process of sinning, is not what is causing their children to being in the process of degenerating toward death at the hand of their enemies, but it is the children's own sinning that is bringing upon them the punishment of death at the hand of their enemies.

In the ot sometimes generations were punished for thier ancestors transgressions

Here’s an example

“thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Exo 20:5
Thou shalt not be bowing down thyself (Hishtaphel imperfective) to them, nor be serving (hophel imperfective) them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting (Qal active participle masculine singular absolute PaQaD)) the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

PaQaD primarily means "to attend to, muster, number, reckon, visit, punish, appoint, look after, care for".

Yahweh is not saying here that the sins of the fathers are the only sins for which the fourth generation will be punished. Nor is he saying that the fourth generation will be punished for their forefathers sins even if the fourth generation repents and turns from walking in the sins taught them by their forefathers. PaQaD is describing an accumulation of generational sins upon the next generation, if they continue in the sins of the previous one/s). So the first generation that falls away is not handed over to their enemise. If the second generation continues in their fathers' apostasy, they are not handed over to their enemies, but the cumulative sins of the nations are piling up . If the third generation continues in the same sins, the nation is held guilty not just for their own sins but also for the sins of their forebears, of which they are tacitly approving. The fourth generation to continue in this treason, like the land bringing forth thorns, is ready ti be burned. Nut at any stage a national revival will wipe the slate clean and the four generation cycle of accounting begins again.

But the New Testament offers a personal atonement not by group but personal to each person and promises that each person would only be held accountable for what they themselves had done here’s an example of the new concept that was coming with the New Testament which can save repentant sinners

“Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.( note the opposite nature of if they sin they’ll surely die )

The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. ( what a promise of life even for those that have sinned )

All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:19-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The New Testament is a New Testament it’s not the same as the old we have a personal savior and lord a personal atonement for our sins and a personal call from the lord to repent and believe the gospel because remission of our sins that we have commited is the result

This has been God's approach to individuals, even under the Old Covenant. They are not held accountable for their nations sins, if they have forsaken partaking with the nation in them. I don't think this is a particularly new covenant MO.

 

[Genez]

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.



The text does not say that there are no ramifications for sin before the law came. Sin had consequences. But it was not added as a debt to the record by which the man would be judged after death. However, even before the law, if one sowed to the flesh, one reaped corruption in this life. That appears to have been a ramification, before the law, of sin in this life.

The text does not say anything about developing a nature that is opposed to God because of corrupted DNA.

Going to hades happened to every person. Some to a part of hades that was comfortable and in Jesus' day called Abraham's bosom; and after the law came, and sin began to be imputed, some went to a part of hades that was hot and thirsty.

So, you are saying they still had ramifications for sin, yet no imputation for sin?
Spiritual death reigned from Adam until the Law (Moses) was given.


To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!

Romans 5:13-15

 

[PaulThomson]

So, you are saying they still had ramifications for sin, yet no imputation for sin?
Spiritual death reigned from Adam until the Law (Moses) was given.


To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!

Romans 5:13-15

I do not see the word "spiritual" before the word death., Paul seems to be speaking about physical death coming to all humans due to the access to the physical tree of life being removed, which if they had been able to keep physically accessing forever, would have allowed them to keep on living physically forever.

"To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. Nevertheless, physical death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died physically by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! "

i.e. ALL will be raised to life at the last day. But not only will all be raised to life, many will also be granted access again to the tree of life and immortality.

 

[PaulThomson]

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Newborns come into this world under the sin of Adam just as we all have, and it will continue that way until the end. Say it isn't so, it's not fair all you want – but His word tells a different story.

Actually, what you just said blatantly contradicts the verses highlighted in the OP
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

 

[Genez]

I do not see the word "spiritual" before the word death., Paul seems to be speaking about physical death coming to all humans due to the access to the physical tree of life being removed, which if they had been able to keep physically accessing forever, would have allowed them to keep on living physically forever.

"To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. Nevertheless, physical death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died physically by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! "

i.e. ALL will be raised to life at the last day. But not only will all be raised to life, many will also be granted access again to the tree of life and immortality.

For that matter...
Do you see the words "spiritual death' here?

Luke 9:60

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, ​

but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”​

According to your reasoning?
Jesus was telling the man to have physically dead people bury their physically dead.


Try this one. It might help you get a feel for what the Bible teaches about spiritual death.

Ephesians 2:1

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins....​

And, remember Genesis?
Adam was told that oin the day he ate?
He would surely die.
Well? Adam ate. But?
He did not drop dead physically.
He died spiritually!

grace and peace ..........

 

[sawdust]

I do not see the word "spiritual" before the word death., Paul seems to be speaking about physical death coming to all humans due to the access to the physical tree of life being removed, which if they had been able to keep physically accessing forever, would have allowed them to keep on living physically forever.

So are you saying we all would die solely because we don't have access to the tree of life irrespective of whether one sins or not?

 

[PaulThomson]

So are you saying we all would die solely because we don't have access to the tree of life irrespective of whether one sins or not?

Yes, we all would die physically solely because we don't have access to the tree of life, irrespective of whether one sins or not?

 

[sawdust]

Yes, we all would die physically solely because we don't have access to the tree of life, irrespective of whether one sins or not?

Then sin is irrelevant in regards to death and scriptures like "the soul who sins, dies"(Ez.18:4) and "the wages of sin is death"(Rom.6:23) has no real meaning because it is not sin that causes death according to you.

 

[PaulThomson]

For that matter...
Do you see the words "spiritual death' here?

Luke 9:60

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, ​

but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”​

According to your reasoning?
Jesus was telling the man to have physically dead people bury their physically dead.

It's a figure of speech. He is essentially telling the man to have absolutely no concern about what will happen to his father's body. If it rots in place because no living person takes it and buries it, it's not your concern. You justification fir doing nothing to bury your father is that I enlisted you on an urgent mission that made unavailable to fulfil that customary "duty".

It's like the principal telling the student to get immediately to their math class. The student says, "Ms. Jones told me to put these book back on the shelves in the library. Let me first put away the books and then I will go to class. " To which the principal says,
"Let the other books put away your books. As for you, get to class."

Try this one. It might help you get a feel for what the Bible teaches about spiritual death.

Ephesians 2:1

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins....​

​

Let's look at the context of 2:1 And you (Καὶ ὑμᾶς) being (ὄντας) dead (νεκροὺς) to/for-in the the trespasses (τοῖς παραπτώμασιν) and the sins (καὶ ταῖς ἁμαρτίαις).​

​

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

This seems to me to be referring to the process of baptism into water and into death with Christ, in which death Christ was bearing our sins and joined with Him in baptism we acknowledge that and own the sins that Christ bore, which God had formerly not been crediting to us. Then we are quickened as we are brought up out of the water with a clean conscience before God, leaving our sins behind.

And, remember Genesis?
Adam was told that on the day he ate?
He would surely die.
Well? Adam ate. But?
He did not drop dead physically.
He died spiritually!

grace and peace ..........

What God said was "On the day you eat of it "to die you are/were/will be dying". It is the same expression used for Hezekiah. "Get your affairs in order because to die you were/are/will be dying." Hezekiah did not die as soon as God proclaimed this judgment. He was simply assured that under present circumstances, he is dying and this dying is leading to eventual death.

God warned Adam that on the day he ate of the forbidden tree he would begin a process of physical degradation that would end in physical death. This was effected by removing access to the physical tree of life, so that they could not continuing physically to eat from physical fruit and by doing so potentially live physically forever.

 

[PaulThomson]

Then sin is irrelevant in regards to death and scriptures like "the soul who sins, dies"(Ez.18:4) and "the wages of sin is death"(Rom.6:23) has no real meaning because it is not sin that causes death according to you.

Sin is irrelevant to whether a person, after being born into this world, lives physically forever or eventually physically dies. All will die physically.

But through Christ ALL will come back to life physically.

After that some will suffer a second physical death, based on their unwillingness to have Christ rule over them.

"the soul that sins dies" is simply a statement of fact, not of causation.

"the wages of sin is death" is simply saying that sin does not produce life.

 

[sawdust]

Sin is irrelevant to whether a person, after being born into this world, lives physically forever or eventually physically dies. All will die physically.

But through Christ ALL will come back to life physically.

After that some will suffer a second physical death, based on their unwillingness to have Christ rule over them.

"the soul that sins dies" is simply a statement of fact, not of causation.

"the wages of sin is death" is simply saying that sin does not produce life.

Let's eat, drink and be merry then for tomorrow we die.

I wonder how irrelevant Christ thinks sin is seeing as how, because of it, He died a most tortuous death?

I really cannot understand how anyone, with even just a cursory read of the scriptures, cannot see that sin is the cause of death. If failing to eat from a certain tree was the cause of death then the command should have been .. "eat from the the tree of life Adam or you will surely die".

have a good one mate.

 

[PaulThomson]

Let's eat, drink and be merry then for tomorrow we die.

I wonder how irrelevant Christ thinks sin is seeing as how, because of it, He died a most tortuous death?

I really cannot understand how anyone, with even just a cursory read of the scriptures, cannot see that sin is the cause of death. If failing to eat from a certain tree was the cause of death then the command should have been .. "eat from the the tree of life Adam or you will surely die".

have a good one mate.

Adam's sin is the cause of all men's death. I don't see how you concluded that I think sin is not the cause of death.

 

[Genez]

Yes, we all would die physically solely because we don't have access to the tree of life, irrespective of whether one sins or not?

So where was your imputation of personal sins going to?
Now you got it back on Adam's sin (where it belongs).

Spiritual death has to be understood correctly if we are to be able to think clearly.

Luke 9:59-60

He said to another man, “Follow me.”​

​

But he replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”​

​

Jesus said to him, “Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God.”​

We have to be able to break it down with understanding,
or we will never be able to understand what is reality in this life.
We will end up becoming a Bible thumper in regard to sin if we don't.

.......

 

[Genez]

It's a figure of speech. He is essentially telling the man to have absolutely no concern about what will happen to his father's body. If it rots in place because no living person takes it and buries it, it's not your concern. You justification fir doing nothing to bury your father is that I enlisted you on an urgent mission that made unavailable to fulfil that customary "duty".

It's like the principal telling the student to get immediately to their math class. The student says, "Ms. Jones told me to put these book back on the shelves in the library. Let me first put away the books and then I will go to class. " To which the principal says,
"Let the other books put away your books. As for you, get to class."

​

Let's look at the context of 2:1 And you (Καὶ ὑμᾶς) being (ὄντας) dead (νεκροὺς) to/for-in the the trespasses (τοῖς παραπτώμασιν) and the sins (καὶ ταῖς ἁμαρτίαις).​

​

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

This seems to me to be referring to the process of baptism into water and into death with Christ, in which death Christ was bearing our sins and joined with Him in baptism we acknowledge that and own the sins that Christ bore, which God had formerly not been crediting to us. Then we are quickened as we are brought up out of the water with a clean conscience before God, leaving our sins behind.



What God said was "On the day you eat of it "to die you are/were/will be dying". It is the same expression used for Hezekiah. "Get your affairs in order because to die you were/are/will be dying." Hezekiah did not die as soon as God proclaimed this judgment. He was simply assured that under present circumstances, he is dying and this dying is leading to eventual death.

God warned Adam that on the day he ate of the forbidden tree he would begin a process of physical degradation that would end in physical death. This was effected by removing access to the physical tree of life, so that they could not continuing physically to eat from physical fruit and by doing so potentially live physically forever.

A figure of speech?


When Adam ate the fruit? He DIED.
In that day he died.
Yet, he ran around and put on fig leaves.
Physically dead people can't do that.

But? HE DIED!

The Hebrew says, "In dying you shall die." = Two deaths!
Spiritual first.
Resulting in eventual physical death.

.........

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

What’s your point ?

Like I said and showed in the Old Testament generations were punished for sins of the fathers in other words the ancestors sin was put on the whole family line to the third and forth generetion

This is what I’m saying Old Testament

“thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

these are people who had others sin imputes upon them before the gospel came forth now New Testament promise of a personal nature to each no longer would the sins of the fathers be taken out upon the sons but everyone’s own sin is the issue

“Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live. The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:19-22‬ ‭

in the Old Testament what your quoting is telling us that before the law came to make sin known it wasn’t inputed to anyone

You just left out the prior sentance that sets that up

“(for until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, ( only until Moses came and gave the law then sin could be imputed upon each sinner ) even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, ( this ain’t sayong adams sin was imputes to anyone at all it’s explaining how death came into the world which is the prior sentence ) who is the figure of him that was to come.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; ( Adam intriduved the world to sin and death )

and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”( we all die because like Adam we sin too )
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Our own sin is the only issue we have if everyone I o ow and all my reletively sinned that’s not going to judge me but my own actions and words will independent of anyone else even Adam because of Christ and the gospel

Sinners who sin need remission of sins

 

[PaulThomson]

The Hebrew says, "In dying you shall die." = Two deaths!

No it doesn't. It says "to die (infinitive) you were/are/will be dying (Qal imperfective)".

What dd the same expression mean when said to Hezekiah?

 

[Genez]

No it doesn't. It says "to die (infinitive) you were/are/will be dying (Qal imperfective)".

What dd the same expression mean when said to Hezekiah?

Leaving all those blanks gives one a lot to work with, aye?
And, sometimes words can be used idiomatically...
But, not always. Sometimes, it means what it says literally.

For Adam was given a specific timeline for his dying....

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,
thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest
thereof thou shalt surely die.​

And, as a result? Being in the line of Adam?
We are all born spiritually dead.
Which eventually leads us into physical death.

Born, dead to the truth.

Some refuse to give up their old way of seeing things and cling to their old cherished ways of thinking...
Because, they love death. (Proverbs 8:36)

In Christ ...............