If sin is not imputed without the law, how can some claim that babies and children die because Adam's sin is imputed to them?

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bluejean_bible

Well-known member
#21
Feb 15, 2025
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#21
Brasspen said:
Those who are with the Devil say things like this. It is for spreading thorns/tares. It's for their amusement.
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That's a true shame to be amused by such a sick errant ideology as that . Really though the effort shouldn't come as a surprise when they're trying to make God out to be a devil.

I think many,if not all, of those type persons are actually atheists. They pose as Christians so to inject conflict and insult God and the faithful.

It's a shame.
 
Brasspen

Brasspen

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#23
Sep 14, 2024
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#23
bluejean_bible said:
That's a true shame to be amused by such a sick errant ideology as that . Really though the effort shouldn't come as a surprise when they're trying to make God out to be a devil.

I think many,if not all, of those type persons are actually atheists. They pose as Christians so to inject conflict and insult God and the faithful.

It's a shame.
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Oh, yes. Some bad people like having snakes, because they like watching the snake strangle the mouse.

God said in he's law. Do not strangle the live stock. You slaughter it, but not strangle it.
 
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Kroogz

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#24
Dec 5, 2023
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#24
bluejean_bible said:
There are also people,I've met a few, who insist aborted,miscarried babies and newborns and toddlers, can go to Hell when they die at those tender stages of life.
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That will never, no, not ever happen under God's watch.

God condemning us at birth( We did NOTHING) Is a HUGE blessing in disguise. Him Doing it this way makes ALL people savable.

So babies, mentally ill and anybody who can't or will not understand the Gospel is SAFE. Those of us who live and have the mental faculties to understand and believe the Gospel.......Will get our opportunities at His salvation.

Salvation~~Equal privilege and equal opportunity for ALL. Those who can't believe are safe. And those who can believe get to make their choice.
 
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bluejean_bible

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#26
Feb 15, 2025
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#26
Kroogz said:
That will never, no, not ever happen under God's watch.

God condemning us at birth( We did NOTHING) Is a HUGE blessing in disguise. Him Doing it this way makes ALL people savable.

So babies, mentally ill and anybody who can't or will not understand the Gospel is SAFE. Those of us who live and have the mental faculties to understand and believe the Gospel.......Will get our opportunities at His salvation.

Salvation~~Equal privilege and equal opportunity for ALL. Those who can't believe are safe. And those who can believe get to make their choice.
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I've said before. I wish you the best with your ideology.
 
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bluejean_bible

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#28
Feb 15, 2025
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#28
Brasspen said:
No, what do you mean by can't believe? I think you are saying, someone who like, never even heard the word of God. Such as newborn.
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Your asking that of someone whose thinks a god that condemned everyone at birth is a HUGE blessing.
 
CS1

CS1

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#33
May 23, 2012
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#33
The wages of sin is death from the time a baby is born. They can die as we see many do in America, with 64 million murdered in the womb. Sin is the reason for physical death; spiritual death is an eternal one. The Righteousness Of God doesn't condemn the innocent such as children. but they can still die.
 
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bluejean_bible

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#34
Feb 15, 2025
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#34
CS1 said:
The wages of sin is death from the time a baby is born. They can die as we see many do in America, with 64 million murdered in the womb. Sin is the reason for physical death; spiritual death is an eternal one. The Righteousness Of God doesn't condemn the innocent such as children. but they can still die.
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We know children die. That isn't what is being discussed.
 
BillyBob

BillyBob

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#35
Dec 20, 2023
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#35
CS1 said:
The Righteousness Of God doesn't condemn the innocent such as children. but they can still die.
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Rom 9:10-15
10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”
 
NOV25

NOV25

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#36
Nov 23, 2019
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#36
The sin of Adam, called original sin, was in no way passed down or imputed to the rest of the human race.

5th century heretic.
Pelagius.

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Denying original sin is a common conclusion for heretical synergists who place man and his “free will” at the center of creation, rather than Christ as it should be.
 
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bluejean_bible

Well-known member
#37
Feb 15, 2025
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#37
NOV25 said:
The sin of Adam, called original sin, was in no way passed down or imputed to the rest of the human race.

5th century heretic.
Pelagius.

——

Denying original sin is a common conclusion for heretical synergists who place man and his “free will” at the center of creation, rather than Christ as it should be.
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There is the point of view that says God cannot be contradictory of himself.

If all humanity is condemned to death as sinners,by God, the moment they are born then abortion clinics would afford salvation to the unborn. Saving them from that God given destiny of damnation.

There too is the matter of The Book of Ezekiel.

18:20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

When the son of the father will not pass unto the son because everyone is responsible for their own sins, it seems inconsistent then that Adam's sin condemns to death and separation from God every human born after him.
 
Jimbone

Jimbone

Senior Member
#38
Aug 22, 2014
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#38
PaulThomson said:
Could you give your explanation of the meaning of the words written to us in Rom. 5:13-44 ? That is the purpose of the thread and OP.
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
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Yes, sin was in the world before Moses was given the law. Adam brought sin to all mankind, sin being doing that which is again
PaulThomson said:
Why would we be born cut off from God, if sin is not imputed where there is no law? Your sins have separated between you and your God. If your sins are not imputed at birth because you don't have and know the law, what would cause you to be separated from God at birth?
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Because the spiritual connection to God was what died the DAY Adam ate, and 2 dead spirits produce dead spirits. This is really 101 stuff that we see the second the veil is lifted when we are born again. The fact this is just so inconceivable and just makes no sense to you is a very bad sign for your true and real life status. I'm not trying to be mean or win an argument here now. The fact that you still seem completely blind to the spirit is very troubling. You just seem to have no clue what I mean when I'm talking about these things, your responses only make sense from the perspective of someone who thinks they are saved when they are in fact not saved. Again please understand I don't think I can know about your relationship with God, nor can you know mine, our salvation is between us and Him, full stop. I am saying this as someone who was a false convert for a while.

I know "False Convert" sounds so bad and almost like we are trying to fool others if that's what we are, but the truth is that it's the false convert that is fooled, we can't know what we've never had any part of. So we are all born with a dead spirit and spiritually disconnected from God. So ALL we know is the flesh, there is no way we can have any clue what "the spirit" is at all, ever. There's just no possible frame of reference we can draw from, there can't be. Even if you read about it in the Bible, in Gods word, the Truth of all reality, we cannot "know" about this spirit in any REAL way until we are born of Spirit, or "born-again".
So until this happen in truth then all we can think Christianity is, is what we think or feel it is. For example I thought that Christianity was just basically a good moral "belief system" that if followed would result in a decent life. Now in retrospect I like to sum it up like "I like the idea of Jesus, but I also have bills to pay". It was just what "I" thought it was, and "I" was wrong.

That's also the catch 22 of this whole thing as well. We can't ever explain this precisely to the unbeliever because of this very truth. I can take them through scripture and show them in detail how He tells us this all works, but only He can "show" them in truth. I'm saying all this to share with you that I feel this has to be the position you're coming from based on the things you say, how you argue against other things, and the lack of a firm grasp on even the most elementary truths reveled when we are, by grace, born again of Spirit.

I know what I'm saying it pretty forward, and I'm sure it comes across insulting and like a very low tactic just to "win" an argument, but I don't care about this stupid argument, I do however care about pointing something out I feel helps point others to the Truth, Jesus our Lord. Again I cannot know about another mans salvation, nor am I making any claims about your personal status with God. I just felt that pointing this out to you is something I should do, recognizing some things you say that I would have said when I was still completely blind to the spirit as I was born. We have to see "our way" for what it is in truth and turn from it to Him. This is something He does in us and then makes us all new creatures, this means a LOT more than repeating a prayer and being declared "saved" by your local pastor, SO much more.
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#39
Oct 24, 2012
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#39
PaulThomson said:
Can you explain the meaning of -
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
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I will try, and thanks for asking

Okay, death came to Adam the first in unbelief to God who ate and was told to not eat or he would die.
Adam ate, so death came, and God did not kill Adam or Eve, yet death came and did its thing

Being made aware of right and wrong, from eating from that tree of the knowledge of right and wrong, left Adam to decide, you to decide, me to decide, everyone to decide what is right and what is wrong. And oh boy what a mess that became, having no Law as a basis to work from.
So Law the Ten came in, and man messed that up worse, not seeing. the Ten as Love as is now today revealed to us all in Son for us all. Love overcame evil, love overcomes evil, no need for Law, only Love, as Jesus was asked what is the most important command in the Law (The Ten)
Jesus's answered LOVE to Father first, then neighbor as self. Problem from that is, people,e are loving self first, then trying to love neighbor as self. Messed up isn't it?
The Ten make up Love, God's type in 1 Son Jesus, to do in reality and not take any credit in self.
Everything from day one in the fall, has been being played out for us to see and choose belief to Gods love for us all above it all
A dispensation, we think new know, and then find out we do not know, then Father reveals and we either agree with Daddy, PaPa, Father or not.

And so wars, rumors of wars, and death happened happens to us all. I have harmed others, have you? see in Genesis where Dinah was raped (Genesis 34)
And what the first chosen did to the clan, killing them with deception. Even though it is righteous to do things to others that have done things to you or family
Today not so. they were unaware of full truth of Love of God wins and won for us
The Law of Moses is today no more, what??????????????????

Authorized (King James) Version

Hebrews 7:11-12
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Trusting Father to tell you, what you need to know as we each grow in different stages here on earth
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

Senior Member
#40
Oct 24, 2012
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#40
PaulThomson said:
Why would we be born cut off from God, if sin is not imputed where there is no law? Your sins have separated between you and your God. If your sins are not imputed at birth because you don't have and know the law, what would cause you to be separated from God at birth?
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Nothing, (Only born with the knowledge of good and evil, yet still not knowing the truth in that. The choice to believe or not believe God, whenever that day arrives to decide assuredly to believe God in Jeremiah 29:11 for me at least.
I, know God wants what is best for me and all others too, no matter however I or others might view it
Born with the knowledge to decide when come of age, and not one person has an exact age
I see a reunion in Heaven with all the Babies that died and even were aborted
So women start rejoicing God loves you and everyone, that is fact And God knows what is best for us all, IMOP
 
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