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I notice that pretrib view isnt quite understood by all ill try and give it another whirl, im not trying to convince you to change your mind, Im trying to show how I view the chronolgy of events? Ive noticed pre tribbers have a good understanding of the post trib position and I find it curious...

I need to clarify what your saying, are you saying I interpret the word departure wrongly when I believe its meaning the rapture occurs at this time? Or are you saying I have removed the word departure from the bible and swapped it out with pretrib rapture? As to the first, then every believer...

This is how I read your proof verses, which are also my proof verses... let me paraphrase [1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, [2] That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor...

There is no issue, a post tribber can see a correlation with the day of judgment and the day of wrath and hold his position, but because pretribbers use this as a point it's better for your own position to denounce any correlation and weaken the pre trib stance 😇

Man this thread moves fast, I need some spare time to able to participate. I dont think there is an explicit verse that says the rapture is pre or post trib, just like there is no verse that says God is One and Three, yet when we read scripture it is clear there is a trinity the same with pre...

Thanks for your responses, ill refer to this post first, I see the two witness as being in their glorified bodies just from the fact A loud voice calls them up to heaven, and people see them physically going up to heaven in a cloud just like people saw the Lord ascend into heaven, To me God will...

Thanks yep it helps im not sure if all post tribbers think the same way, but Ive got something to go away and think about, Its leading to a lot of questions regarding the 1000yrs already but the thread seems a little belabored already lol maybe another thread one day. I notice you put a lot of...

Im trying to catch up on thread by reading previous posts and working out what makes peoples brains tick, so you may have heard this all before if you have then please just ignore me. 2 thes 1 from a pre tribbers point of view is referring to the time of the tribulation (when He comes in that...

Thanks, when you say Just to be clear(sorry this is all new to me) The only mortals who enter into the kingdom are unbelievers so no believers? the survivors who, can I presume worshiped the Antichrist? took the mark of the beast persecuted Jews are also the ones who go up to Jerusalem every...

Its not the fact there are survivors, its the fact there are no believing survivors from post tribs view, as opposed to believing survivors from a pre trib view, I guess you can say the unbelieving mortal survivors become believers in the 1000 kingdom? Im having trouble seeing how that can be...

Sorry I dont understand, those that believe what? Does He not tell us how He will judge them? For instance the unbelievers at His coming. 2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 2Th 1:8 In flaming fire...

:-) simply as James says they will show their faith by their works

Yes I understood, and the verses you gave me from Matt 25 that say the nations are gathered, those who did good to God's people are seen as sheep and enter the 1000yr kingdom are also seen as righteous and have eternal life? 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate...

Interesting verses thanks, so I'm trying to understand it from post trib and this is what im seeing, one does not believe in Christ therefore misses the rapture as He comes, yet according to matt 25 if they have done good works they are actually also sheep and by their good works not only enter...

Thanks, so if all believers are raptured the mortal survivors are all non Believers?

Just a quick question, if you believe the return of the Lord and the rapture happen at the end of the tribulation, does that mean you see all believers resurrected and or transformed into our eternal bodies then caught up to Christ as Hes descending to the earth. Does that mean only non...

For what its worth, I also think the AC and FP are the same person, yet I arrive to the conclusion from a different angle, I believe the AC morphs into the FP. I think the AC is mortally wounded, and more importantly is the first beast of Rev 13. Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were...

Haha, I thought the same thing, not sure why people are saying what they think 😉

Jude was inspired, he could have been informing us directly what Enoch the seventh from Adam prophesied with or with out the existence of the Book of Enoch, it would not be the only time scripture does this, obviously you dont believe Enoch the seventh from Adam wrote the book of Enoch? And as I...

I did, and I also read and maybe mistakenly thought that you were also not here to debate if the book of Enoch was inspired. If someone says they dont think Jude was actually quoting Enoch, Ive given a heads up on my position and You probably already know my arguments, no doubt you would have...