Understanding God’s election

From 1 Peter 1 verses 3-5 ~ The elect are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by His blood. By His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

I guess Adam either had free will or he wasn't one of God's elect.

He may have had both or neither. Just remember election has nothing to do with salvation. There is not one instance where election refers to eternal salvation and there are several uses in which election is used for unbelievers.

FreeWillers are idolaters who worship their god Volition.

God's election or choosing nothing to do with salvation? Not according to Paul writing to Christians at Ephesus:

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Eph 1:3-7 NKJV)

Adopted as sons, and given redemption through Christ's blood, the forgiveness of sins - what are those things if not salvation?

Hell is definitely just. I don't believe it is loving.

Do you have scripture that states God offers salvation to all? Did God offer salvation to the Assyrians? Until the gospel reached the Americas, do you have any record that salvation was offered to anyone here? Has God brought the gospel to everyone in China or the Middle East even today? If not, how do you say God offers salvation to everyone?

Perhaps, just perhaps, the truth is that God hasn't offered salvation to everyone. Just saying so doesn't make it so.

I can appreciate that one would like to see everyone saved. I share this sentiment. But that doesn't mean reality is to be ignored. And scripture itself suggests your comment is false. God clearly states that He decides whom He will have mercy upon and whom He will not. How do you ignore what scripture plainly states?

These are the last days and the great falling away is coming to pass. This is why most people aren't submitted to the Lord and reflecting Him in godliness and obedience.

Instead of having a normal thread about Midianites and why God called judgement on them and what can be learned from that, you whittled it down into some childish name-calling and wanting to have the last word..... And also taking sides with an ungodly people who caused Israel to sin. This is why God decreed their destruction, but you made Him the bad man in this situation. No Christian would say that. EVER.


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God's election or choosing nothing to do with salvation? Not according to Paul writing to Christians at Ephesus:

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Eph 1:3-7 NKJV)

Adopted as sons, and given redemption through Christ's blood, the forgiveness of sins - what are those things if not salvation?

Not one? Really? Just a few quickies:

[Eph 1:4-7 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

[1Pe 1:2-5 KJV]
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

It doesn't have to be a topic that creates such angst. Are all in Adam? Who made that determination? Did God choose Israel? Why is it so difficult to believe that God chooses?

notice that none of these references is to Salvation.

He says and means exactly what He says. One of the primary issues with you is how you have zero problem with adding to His Word.

16 There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers. (Prov. 6:16-19 NAS)

Note how some of these are depersonalized but the last two are not.

You speak of hatred. Do you consider why you spread strife?


You're not protecting God. Quite the opposite.

You are using the wrong word again. It should be sow, not sew. "Sow" means to spread or plant seeds.

It is consistent with the agricultural analogies and metaphors found throughout Scripture.

People use the wrong words all the time. Sew for sow, allude for elude, illusion for allusion, of for have. And Etc.

Some people are willing to learn from their mistakes. Others are not.

Fools despise correction.

Okay, here again is how hell is both just and loving:

A problematic issue is reconciling God’s power and love with the fact of evil and its consequence. A person—even a theist—might think that God would not permit evil, suffering and hell to exist. People who are mystified by evil and repulsed by its punishment do not realize that the essential aspect of being a human rather than a robot or subhuman creature is moral free will (MFW), which is what enables a person to experience love and meaning. This is what makes humans different from animals, whose behavior is governed mainly by instinct. This is what it means to be created in God’s image (GN 1:26-27; robot or responsible)? God could not force people to return His love without abrogating their humanity. If God were to zap ungodly souls, it would be tantamount to forcing conversions at gunpoint, which would not be free and genuine. If God were to prevent people from behaving hatefully, then He would need to prevent them from thinking evilly, which would make human souls programmed automatons.

MFW only exists when there is the possibility of choosing between two qualitatively opposite moral options that we call good and evil. These options are opposites because of essentially different consequences for choosing them. Choosing good results in blessing, life and heaven; and choosing evil results in cursing, death and hell (DT 30:19). This is why hell as well as heaven exists. It is the just consequence for choosing evil rather than God. The Spirit of God is good: love, peace and joy (GL 5:22-23). Therefore, whoever rejects the Lord is spiritually separated from Him (IS 59:2) and thereby chooses the evil or satanic spirit of hatred, strife and misery and reaps the just consequence called “hell” in the afterlife (GL 6:7-9, HB 9:27-28). These options were presented by Moses to the Israelites (DT 30:19), and Jesus referred to this fundamental choice in terms of a fish or egg versus a snake or scorpion (LK 11:11-13). Life… or Curse? (GN 3:24, RV 22:1-2)

God created theoretical evil or the possibility of rejecting Him as an option that actualizes MFW/free human personality. As such it is necessary and even good (GN 1:31). Of course, it was wrong for Satan (1JN 3:8) and humanity (RM 5:12) to make evil actual by choosing to Sin or reject Faith in God’s Lordship. Sin: ignoring God/God’s Word. God loves a cheerful giver (2CR 9:7), which means He desires people to cooperate with Him happily because of love and gratitude for His grace rather than to cower before Him because of fear of hell. Love must be evoked; it cannot be coerced. And again, when souls sin or do NOT choose to love God freely, it is perfectly just (loving and logical) for them to reap the appropriate consequence (GL 6:7-9) or hell.

Why would anyone choose to believe otherwise? Only God knows why people choose atheism. It is a mystery stated by Isaiah, which is cited by Jesus (in MT 13:14-15): “You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused.” Apparently, this callous attitude demands God to nullify faith/MFW and thereby abrogate the essence of humanness by performing miracles in order to prove He exists (MT 12:39, 24:24, JN 20:29 & 1CR 1:22). In other words, atheists presume to know better than God; they want to usurp divine authority to determine what is best or good, but they may one day (at the eschaton per RV 20:15) wish they had admitted the possibility that God has ordained this mortal life on earth for the purpose of people proving to Him who is worthy of (qualified for) eternal life in heaven (cf. RM 2:5-8 & 2CR 13:5; heart/mind: hard or open?).

Such evil people punish/torture themselves by experiencing delayed karma, just as those who experience appropriate justice during this earthly existence also punish themselves or reap what they have sown and send themselves to jail. This view makes souls responsible for breaking the rules rather than blaming evil on the judges (or Judge) who enforce the rules. The purpose of earthly punishment is to promote repentance, but the reason for retribution in hell is to attain justice. It is difficult to imagine, but somehow even someone as evil as Hitler will receive perfect justice, perhaps experiencing the agony of the millions of deaths he caused in accordance with the principal of “eye for eye” (MT 5:38), after which their souls are destroyed forever (per JN 17:12, RM 9:22, GL 6:8, PHP 3:19, 2THS 1:9, 2PT 3:7 & RV 20:13-14).

God is continually offering salvation to all by means of general revelation: the evidence of creation (RM 1:20) and conscience (RM 2:14-16). Moses said God offers all the choice of life (DT 30:19), Jesus indicated that all who seek will find (MT 7:7), and Paul taught that God wants all to be saved by choosing to learn the Truth (1TM 2:3-4).

The only problem with this is you have not defined choose? Defining chosen is what the issue is all about. What is your definition of chosen and then I will tell you what is difficult

I've heard your explanation before. It's not that I don't understand what you are saying. I simply disagree with your understanding.

This is false. Romans 1 does attest that man can understand the existence of God through creation, conscience, and even Providence, nowhere in scripture does it say God is offering salvation through these means. Salvation is offered by God through faith.
Could God save someone through these means? Sure. There is nothing God can't do. Has He? Probably. But in the main, God is not offering salvation through these means.
While Matthew 7:7 does say that those who seek will find, Romans 3:11 says none are seeking. And 1 Timothy 2 does express God's preference for man, but doesn't define His ways and actions in the passage. God desiring all to be saved doesn't alter the way He brings salvation.

I believe election is scriptural and there is no need to run from the wording of scripture. God clearly elects.