Understanding God’s election

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Feb 17, 2023
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Thank you. That's why you aren't able to teach anyone.

Thanks again.

These are the last days and the great falling away is coming to pass. This is why most people aren't submitted to the Lord and reflecting Him in godliness and obedience.

Instead of having a normal thread about Midianites and why God called judgement on them and what can be learned from that, you whittled it down into some childish name-calling and wanting to have the last word..... And also taking sides with an ungodly people who caused Israel to sin. This is why God decreed their destruction, but you made Him the bad man in this situation. No Christian would say that. EVER.


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Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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I'm not surprised you're ignoring all the verses I posted that show God offers salvation to ALL and not just a few.

Also, it's not about just the gospel - it's about the inherent knowledge that God exists which God has put in every person ever created. It's right in the first chapter of Romans.

Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

So even people who have never heard the gospel will still have to answer to God for how they react to this inherent knowledge of His existence that He gives to all of us past, present and future. ALL of us will have to give an account to Him. This is why you can't blame Him when most people reject Him - it was their choice the whole time and not Him forcing them.

But you should know that if you're so well-versed like you pretend to be.


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Having knowledge of the existence of God is a far cry from hearing the gospel and experiencing salvation. The gospel hasn't been heard by every person. It hasn't even been heard by every person living today. That being the case, how do you make the claim that the gospel is for everyone. Verses that you shared suggesting that this is the case must mean something else or God has lied. Since it is impossible for God to lie, the verses you gave as proof cannot possibly mean as you say.
Let's examine a few:
John 3:16...the term translated world is cosmos. It is not a term referring to individual people, but creation as a whole. While people are included in this, not all are; only believers. It is only these who receive eternal life. The rest remain under condemnation. One would think that Jesus would pray for everyone in the world if He came for them all. But does He? In John 17:9 Jesus specifically says that He does not pray for the world, but only those who God has given to Him. Later in the chapter He also prays for those who will believe in Him. Again, He doesn't pray for the whole world. Should one ignore these truths that contradict what you have said the verses mean?
Titus 2:11...if the verse literally means by all people every single individual, then all would be saved. That's universalism. But we know everyone isn't saved. So the verse can't possibly mean every single individual. In fact, the term itself is plural...people. It refers to people groups...nations, tribes, kindred, and tongues. This is consistent with the great commission wherein the gospel is to go to the uttermost parts of the world and reach all different peoples. This is different from how God treated all other such groups except Israel in the past.

The same can be done for all the other verses you proffered. There is no promise that God will save every human or even ensure they will hear the gospel. History has demonstrated that this is the case. But heaven will be populated by individuals from every nation, tribe, kindred, and tongue...Revelation 7:9.

While God has been at work reconciling the world to Himself since the introduction of sin, He has not always been working in all places at all times. When Jesus was engaged in His earthly ministry, He said He came for the house of Israel. While He did minister the gospel to a Samaritan village and a few Gentiles, He certainly didn't minister the gospel to every Samaritan or Gentile. Neither was He tasked to do so. He claimed to do only what He saw the Father doing. So if the gospel were truly for all people in all times, either Jesus wasn't actually doing all the Father was doing, or the Father wasn't sharing the gospel with everyone at the time that Jesus was on earth.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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from Revelation 3 verse 17-18 ~ You say, ‘I need nothing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, white garments so that you may be clothed and your shameful nakedness not exposed, and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Having knowledge of the existence of God is a far cry from hearing the gospel and experiencing salvation. The gospel hasn't been heard by every person. It hasn't even been heard by every person living today. That being the case, how do you make the claim that the gospel is for everyone. Verses that you shared suggesting that this is the case must mean something else or God has lied. Since it is impossible for God to lie, the verses you gave as proof cannot possibly mean as you say.

2 Corinthians 4 verse 4 ~ The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, Who is the image of God.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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The same can be done for all the other verses you proffered. There is no promise that God will save every human or even ensure they will hear the gospel. History has demonstrated that this is the case. But heaven will be populated by individuals from every nation, tribe, kindred, and tongue...Revelation 7:9.

1 John 3:1b-2 and from Philippians 3:21 ~~ Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears, we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is.
 
Feb 17, 2023
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2 Corinthians 4 verse 4 ~ The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, Who is the image of God.

God doesn't allow that half-hazardly the way you're implying. The only people who are blinded are those who refuse to love God's truth and so be saved.

2 Thessalonians 2:9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie.

Stop isolating verses to twist their meaning!


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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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God doesn't allow that half-hazardly the way you're implying. The only people who are blinded are those who refuse to love God's truth and so be saved.

2 Thessalonians 2:9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie.

Stop isolating verses to twist their meaning!


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Stop being a liar.


Jeremiah 17:9 plus John 3:19-20 ~ The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? This is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil.
 
Feb 17, 2023
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Stop being a liar.

The verse I posted is true though.

These really are the last days....

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.


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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Certainly. If God doesn't act, how can a carnal man come to faith. This has been my argument all along.

Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.
I was looking for the post where you spoke about the natural man not submitting to God's law...
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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We have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. By this we know that we remain in Him, and He in us: He has given us of His Spirit. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you.
 
Feb 17, 2023
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1 John 3:1b-2 and from Philippians 3:21 ~~ Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears, we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is.


The Bible also says:

1 Peter 1:14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance.

You have to conform to His image and let the Holy Spirit change you. If you're isolating verses so that it seems like you don't need to submit to God in any way, it won't make you His child. Go ahead and continue to post your Bible verse panels - but be complete in context.

The time is short. Don't waste time posting Bible verses out of context and mislead people into a false sense of security.

You'll see in the end that I'm not the enemy here.


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bluejean_bible

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2025
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These are the last days and the great falling away is coming to pass. This is why most people aren't submitted to the Lord and reflecting Him in godliness and obedience.

Instead of having a normal thread about Midianites and why God called judgement on them and what can be learned from that, you whittled it down into some childish name-calling and wanting to have the last word..... And also taking sides with an ungodly people who caused Israel to sin. This is why God decreed their destruction, but you made Him the bad man in this situation. No Christian would say that. EVER.


🚃
Just so you know, it's against the rules in most communities of this kind to state or imply a Christian is not a Christian.

There's no childish name calling on my part. You assume the stance through allusion that the Midianites deserved to die. They earned it. Even the unborn.

You refuse to answer my challenge,that you answer directly my questions about the killing of innocent unborns and infants.

You obfuscate,avoid,accuse,and then say I'm not a Christian, using the same tactics. And after you claim you teach this stuff.

You can't even be civil in writing in an online forum. You're insecure. And you lash out.

My observations about God escaped you. There's a deeper meaning behind his savagery in the OT and then his docility in the New.

You don't see that.

Oh,you do teach alright. Just not how you try to imply yourself qualified to.

I won't continue to read you. I've learned enough.

BTW, there are no charms in Christianity.
 
Feb 17, 2023
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We have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. By this we know that we remain in Him, and He in us: He has given us of His Spirit. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you.
If a Christian really does have the Holy Spirit, they would keep the verses in context without giving any false sense of security. Moreover, the person who doesn't resist the Holy Spirit actually becomes more obedient, godly and wise.

So we need to check ourselves to see if we're actually remaining in Him.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?

The five virgins with no oil made the mistake of not maintaining their oil - heck they didn't even bring any with them! But they still wanted to go to the wedding feast and thought they'd make it. The Bridegroom thought differently though and no longer knew them that he should let them in.


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Feb 17, 2023
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I hope you do. The time is short.

I'm not the one posting Bible verses out of context. You're only posting the parts that give a false sense of security. The Bible has warnings too that need to be taken seriously and applied as well.

I myself am taking into consideration everything - the comforting, encouraging verses as well as the warnings - and applying them in my life. If the Bible says there will be a great falling away, shouldn't we try to do our best to not be part of the group? God already told us what to do in the Bible - and it's not just to agree to mere head knowledge.


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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
63,210
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Matthew 11 verse 27 ~ All things have been entrusted to Me by My Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.
 
Feb 17, 2023
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Just so you know, it's against the rules in most communities of this kind to state or imply a Christian is not a Christian.

There's no childish name calling on my part. You assume the stance through allusion that the Midianites deserved to die. They earned it. Even the unborn.

You refuse to answer my challenge,that you answer directly my questions about the killing of innocent unborns and infants.

You obfuscate,avoid,accuse,and then say I'm not a Christian, using the same tactics. And after you claim you teach this stuff.

You can't even be civil in writing in an online forum. You're insecure. And you lash out.

My observations about God escaped you. There's a deeper meaning behind his savagery in the OT and then his docility in the New.

You don't see that.

Oh,you do teach alright. Just not how you try to imply yourself qualified to.

I won't continue to read you. I've learned enough.

BTW, there are no charms in Christianity.

*Shrug* At least I warned you and not have given you a false sense of security. Maybe you'll test yourself someday and correct whatever is needed. Otherwise, God will do it for you - that's always worse.

I will try to get in touch with the admin of this forum to see what I can or can say regarding people not checking themselves to see if they're in the faith. With that said, it's alarming that a lot of people think they can just believe Jesus as Savior and not even submit to the Holy Spirit to make Jesus their Lord. That's part of salvation too and is what makes us distinct from everyone else.

I really believe that the great tribulation will arrive within this lifetime - not sure - 7 to 10 or 12 years? We all need all this time to strengthen our faith to endure all that will happen to us. Most people right now don't realize how bad things will get, that all the loss and persecution will do to test our faith.

If people will submit to God and let Him strengthen them - they will be able to withstand all the persecution to come.


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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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James 1 verse 12 plus Psalm 34 verse 19 ~ Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love Him. Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the LORD delivers him from them all.
 
Feb 17, 2023
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Matthew 11 verse 27 ~ All things have been entrusted to Me by My Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.

There's a condition for being qualified for the Son to choose to reveal the God the Father though and have God in your life. The Bible also says:

John 6:45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

Furthermore, Jesus says:

John 6:53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.

So again, it's not just mere believing in your head that Jesus is the Savior - He wants you to live out His life in you as well.

2 John 9 Any one who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

So this is saying that you have to continue and live out what He teaches us. If we do - we have God - both the Father and the Son (and the Holy Spirit too!).

All this should have been mentioned in your Bible panel as it is currently not giving the complete picture about having God.


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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
63,210
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From 1 Peter 1 verses 3-5 ~ The elect are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by His blood. By His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.