Understanding God’s election

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Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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Anytime the "sir" and the adverbs or adjectives start flying, we know we're in for some ruffled feathers we can simply bypass. That is if we aren't already bypassing most posts anyway.

I commend @PaulThomson for his new alerts.
Flies are attracted to all manner of unsavory things...don't you know? No suprises here with your commendation.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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how do the completely dead even hope to attain anything?
For one thing they do not believe, so I am not sure what they may be hoping for.
Those made alive in Christ, who have their hearts circumcised, have hope in the Lord,
and the life to come, life which is in Him, and Him alone. I am truly puzzled why you,
if you are alive in Christ, would say you are as dead as one who is not alive in Christ.
Honestly that makes zero sense to me, and it is not Biblical either.


It is also my view that the natural man is as dead as the spirit man, and vise versa, as that is the sure prognosis.

From 1 Peter 1 3-5 ~ The elect are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by His blood. By His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
 
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studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
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Well...compared to what Paul thought about himself, I'd say you far exceeded Paul's own low pre-conversion opinion of himself.

What does seem very clear to me is that you're pretty ignorant of the scriptures. Let's take a look at your latest lame attempt to justify Paul -- or better yet to justify why God chose Paul to be an apostle! Did God really save Paul because he saw something "good" in him, as you're implying? Did God save Paul because he saw "faithfulness" in Paul in spite of his obsession with persecuting believers? Seems to me if Paul was faithful or zealous for anything, it was to persecute the Body of Christ! Here's the passage in larger context:

1 Tim 1:12-14
12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me faithful, appointing me to his service.
13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
NIV


Notice first that faith and love accompanied God's grace and was poured out abundantly on Paul! IOW...the faith and love that the Savior had in and for his Father were poured out on Paul. Could this fact have anything to do with why or how God found Paul "faithful"? Could the gifts of God's grace, faith and love have influenced why God called Paul in the first place and believed he would be a faithful servant? Or do you think God was admiring Paul faithfulness in persecuting believers? Or maybe God had such confidence in Paul because by the apostle's own admission he was "chief of sinners" (v.15)?

In your view of Scripture, was there anything like a faithful OC Jew at the time Christ came to earth, maybe with a zeal towards God as they understood Him?

Is it conceivable to you with your unscriptural view of fallen mankind that there could be a faithful Jew who could have been at first unfaithful to YHWH's Christ until he was persuaded Jesus is YHWH's Christ?

You're so far off base on so many Scriptural truths, that it seems to me you cannot even do basic reasoning let alone the logic @PaulThomson has been calling you on. There's probably a very personal reason Paul could so clearly see and say with deep, heartfelt care:

NKJ Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.​
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
2,317
496
83
Flies are attracted to all manner of unsavory things...don't you know? No suprises here with your commendation.
There is a part of me that grew up where you still are that would like to come out and get into the gutter with you. But there's no need since you continually beckon from there showing where you are actually based and still thrive.

The call is to become something vastly different than what you show yourself to be after how many decades? You're in your 8th now, aren't you? Some of us can only hope all others see you for what you clearly are.

There remains some decorum towards you. We're all fortunate this is the case. It's a testimony of what being and remaining in Christ accomplishes.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
62,908
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John 15 17-19 ~ This is My command to you: Love one another. If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me first. If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
3,933
556
113
For one thing they do not believe, so I am not sure what they may be hoping for.
Those made alive in Christ, who have their hearts circumcised, have hope in the Lord,
and the life to come, life which is in Him, and Him alone. I am truly puzzled why you,
if you are alive in Christ, would say you are as dead as one who is not alive in Christ.
Honestly that makes zero sense to me, and it is not Biblical either.





From 1 Peter 1 3-5 ~ The elect are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by His blood. By His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
The passage you quote is incredibly fascinating. In this one passage, Peter ties the new birth and resurrection together. This is why, in all probability, Jesus chided Nicodemus in John 3 for not understanding Ezek 37 and for not applying it to Jesus' time or to Nicodemus' own personal life. In Jn 3, Jesus talks specifically about the "birth from above"; whereas in Ezek God spoke in symbolic, graphical terms of physical resurrection.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
3,933
556
113
In your view of Scripture, was there anything like a faithful OC Jew at the time Christ came to earth, maybe with a zeal towards God as they understood Him?

Is it conceivable to you with your unscriptural view of fallen mankind that there could be a faithful Jew who could have been at first unfaithful to YHWH's Christ until he was persuaded Jesus is YHWH's Christ?

You're so far off base on so many Scriptural truths, that it seems to me you cannot even do basic reasoning let alone the logic @PaulThomson has been calling you on. There's probably a very personal reason Paul could so clearly see and say with deep, heartfelt care:

NKJ Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.​
This should be interesting. Define what a "faithful OC Jew" was. What did such a Jew look like?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
62,908
31,660
113
This should be interesting. Define what a "faithful OC Jew" was. What did such a Jew look like?

Acts 15:10-11 Why do you test God by placing on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
62,908
31,660
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The passage you quote is incredibly fascinating. In this one passage, Peter ties the new birth and resurrection together. This is why, in all probability, Jesus chided Nicodemus in John 3 for not understanding Ezek 37 and for not applying it to Jesus' time or to Nicodemus' own personal life. In Jn 3, Jesus talks specifically about the "birth from above"; whereas in Ezek God spoke in symbolic, graphical terms of physical resurrection.
There are a lot of Pelagian heretics here... with seemingly zero comprehension
of there being a distinction between the natural man and the spiritual man.



John 3.19-20 and from Psalm 10.4 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of Light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come
into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. The wicked reviles the Lord
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
3,933
556
113
There are a lot of Pelagian heretics here... with seemingly zero comprehension
of there being a distinction between the natural man and the spiritual man.



John 3.19-20 and from Psalm 10.4 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of Light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come
into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. The wicked reviles the Lord
But you gotta be careful here, dear sister; for some Pelagian or Arminian or FWer will accuse you of Hate Speech with passages like this.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
62,908
31,660
113
But you gotta be careful here, dear sister; for some Pelagian or Arminian or FWer will accuse you of Hate Speech with passages like this.
It only amazes me more and more how much of Scripture is denied by those who claim to believe it.