The Gun Thread

[shittim]

Well said, thank you brother

 

[Desdichado]

I do not directly engage you because you appear to be a person of ill-will. Your criticisms of gun control and gun culture are intertwined with a clear hatred for America and Americans.

This is, perhaps, why Americans gang up on you in these forums. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind, buddy.

I, for one, would be quick to point out that there would be no America as we know it without England. But for those spats in the late 18th and early 19th centuries, we're certainly kin folk culturally speaking.

I'd also be quick to point out that, as with France, Britain can also be thanked for the post 1776 prosperity of our country. Try having trade without a Royal Navy patrolling the globe. Try winning or even getting to Yorktown without the French military.

Additionally, there are reforms the modern UK has made that I would love to see cross the pond as they are more compatible with notions of liberty than present American policy.

Heck, I'll even throw this in- It's very probable that Edmund Burke, a British statesman, has more singular influence on the modern Right in America than any one of our Founders with the probable exception of Thomas Jefferson.

But I've just sat on these points because, from the get-go, you have displayed the same dismissive and disrespectful behavior you accuse Americans of. Sans support for gun ownership, of course.

More imaginative reasoning. Whatever it takes to show gun ownership is right, just say 'you're English and the from the UK' and then fabricate something about Muslim invasions to portray us as stupid or incapable, when your own country dealing with mass shootings on a mass scale. Just because America helped during the wars, doesn't mean anyone has to submit to you as being right about everything.

America is the most prideful country in the world, look at how you guys speak, converse, and gang-up on people from other countries.

I asked whether there are people to back up the Godless view of gun rights for all, but they don't appear to be here.

Talking about weapons DOES NOT belong on a Christian site.

 

[Desdichado]

In this case, I absolutely agree. But I do want to say it's fine for people to come in and voice disagreements with us on guns though I would prefer they go and make a separate thread.

If they respectfully disagree and want to have a look into this distinctive feature of American culture, cool! It gives us an opportunity to give them points they would have not otherwise considered. They may even give us ideas for reforms that do not infringe on our 2nd A rights, but keep guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists.

As the OP, I say that this kind of constructive and respectful dialogue is quite welcome.

But this dude came in charging at the Stars and Stripes, inferring we are psychotic and Godless in the first post. Then moved on call us nasty and proud when some of us responded in-kind.

If he persists, I encourage you all to put him on ignore and be done with it if you want to discuss things like kydex, ballistics, etc.

But I want to make it very clear that this place is open to respectful, inquiring minds.

This thread is for people who like guns. If you think guns are sinful you don't have to participate in this thread. Instead you can pray for us to receive God's wisdom and guidance in this area.

There are tens of thousands of godly Americans who enjoy shooting sports as a hobby. There are many godly Americans who are in God's will who carry concealed firearms. I'll bet a hundred dollars that God does not consider carrying a concealed firearm to be a sin in and of itself. Though, it could be less than best for some to carry, or to carry in certain situations.

But there are hundreds, if not thousands, of situations each year where having a gun handy protected someones life or property. But the media refuses to hear such accounts because it goes against their ungodly anti gun agenda.

 

[Desdichado]

A competition gun is a different animal. I mean, if I was a big guy and I needed a gun for every conceivable practical use AND competition use, I would consider a Glock 17. It's still light, so with the right belt and holster combo, it would probably work well. Just be prepared for a little chafing.

I like the Glock 26 but it feels awkward in my big hand.

But so what I won't be using it for competition.

 

[Yahweh_is_gracious]

Earnest, I think you'll like the mods I made to my Glock 26. I also had the "it's too short for my hand" problem, but after changing the floor plate on the magazines to give me an extra place for my pinky finger to rest, problem solved. Some might say "ah you should have bought the full-sized Glock", and it's got some credibility, but it's hard to conceal a full sized Glock. I can carry my 26 in quite a few places and not print a bit.

 

[mj007]

More imaginative reasoning. Apparently a gun can be compared to a rock on the ground. Guns just appear out of nowhere, grow on trees, naturally formed. I hear what you are saying about recreation and sport, but now you are saying they are not for protection. Which one is it? A gun was invented and designed to kill, it is a man made weapon. If you decide to use it as a walking stick, it doesn't change what is was designed for. How can you say it is not a weapon? That's beyond stupidity.

gun - a weapon incorporating a metal tube from which bullets, shells, or other missiles are propelled by explosive force, typically making a characteristic loud, sharp noise.

so much for the peace of Christ resting in your soul.
Why are you even on a Christian site when you insist on posting showing you are not?
I so wish you understood what it means to be a citizen.
Nothing is a "weapon" until it is used as a weapon, the rock Cain used to slay his brother was not a weapon until
it was used as a weapon.
Understanding recreational, competitive shooting sports appears to be beyond your grasp
You have my sympathy.

 

[Desdichado]

The real value of the 26 is that the barrel length is perrrrrfect for concealed carry. Added floor plates, etc kind of defeat the purpose, but not enough for me to go full anti-modification.

Again, because of the barrel length. Meow.

As for concealment, it all depends on what he wears and his body type (and I know you know this. preach'n to the choir here). Most people couldn't do a Glock 17 on a daily basis, but if you're pretty tall or wide, it could work out for you. You'd probably be less likely to carry though.

I fall back to my other suggestion, if you're not comfortable with the factory Glock 26 or 17, Glock has the good ol' reliable 19 in the middle.

That's what I carry most months of the year and I diggit. Though I've gotta say my Walther PPS makes it soooooo easy.

Earnest, I think you'll like the mods I made to my Glock 26. I also had the "it's too short for my hand" problem, but after changing the floor plate on the magazines to give me an extra place for my pinky finger to rest, problem solved. Some might say "ah you should have bought the full-sized Glock", and it's got some credibility, but it's hard to conceal a full sized Glock. I can carry my 26 in quite a few places and not print a bit.

 

[Yahweh_is_gracious]

More imaginative reasoning. Apparently a gun can be compared to a rock on the ground. Guns just appear out of nowhere, grow on trees, naturally formed. I hear what you are saying about recreation and sport, but now you are saying they are not for protection. Which one is it? A gun was invented and designed to kill, it is a man made weapon. If you decide to use it as a walking stick, it doesn't change what is was designed for. How can you say it is not a weapon? That's beyond stupidity.

gun - a weapon incorporating a metal tube from which bullets, shells, or other missiles are propelled by explosive force, typically making a characteristic loud, sharp noise.

I'm not sure what your issue is, nor am I interested in finding out, but watching you try to grind your axe is laughable at best. If I give you a lolli and pat you on the head, will you go away?

Doubtful. You've got a point to make, and by golly, even if you're just standing on your soapbox ranting like a loon, you are certainly going to keep ranting, louder and louder until you are made the center of everyone's attention.

We don't care about whatever facts you can dig up that make your case while you disregard anything that doesn't agree. We don't care what your axe to grind with Americans or American society is. We don't care if you think we're all Godless heathens while YOU are so righteous and an exemplar of "how Christians ought to be". We just don't care.

But rant on fella. It's your dime (that's a nasty, Godless, American colloquialism in case you missed it).

 

[Desdichado]

I'm kind of shocked the super anti-Glock guys or super anti-9mm guys have not come out of the woodwork.

On all the other gun threads I'm in, there's usually some dude packing a Sig Sauer 1911 or some new, flashy HK dropping endless anti-Glock critiques or comical claims about the .45's power.

 

[Desdichado]

"If you don't pack something that doesn't start with a 4, you're either a woman or shouldn't be carrying at all."

Those guys...

 

[shittim]

good friend from texas shared he and his bride both carry Glock, his analysis was they are blocky, horrible trigger, poor sights, and go bang every time.

 

[Yahweh_is_gracious]

good friend from texas shared he and his bride both carry Glock, his analysis was they are blocky, horrible trigger, poor sights, and go bang every time.

I can say that I don't disagree with that assessment. The factory trigger, factory slide release, factory magazine release, and factory sights are not the most desirable parts. They sure do work well though. I think that if a person wanted to be picky enough, they could find something wrong with any weapon.

Too bad that there are snobs in every area. Gun snobs are some of the worst. Perhaps I just "aim low" (no pun intended), but so long as a weapon functions as intended, goes bang every time I pull the trigger, and isn't terribly picky about what brand of ammo it is fed, then I am quite content. The ability to say I spent $2000 on a handgun doesn't mean anything to me, especially when my $450 handgun works better, experiences less functional errors, and I can out-shoot the dude with the expensive paperweight that stovepipes 1 round out of every mag.

 

[Desdichado]

Blocky, yes. But I think that blockiness has a certain charm to it.

I don't know where people get the horrible trigger thing from. Nothing beats a good 1911 in that dept, but compared with other guns, the trigger is painfully average. If you want a bad one, I'll send you a kel-tec or a beretta nano. Those are start pulling on Monday, fire on Saturday triggers.

Glock sights are terrible.

Yyyyyep. They do go bang every time. Revolvers with mags.

To me at least, the value of the Glock is in the reliability, maintenance, and carryability. Until recent years, I would add their striker-fired system is optimal for self-defense situations, but everybody else has those now.

For size and weight ergos, Glock is still king from the compact to the full-size models. It's the single-stacks that I don't dig.

good friend from texas shared he and his bride both carry Glock, his analysis was they are blocky, horrible trigger, poor sights, and go bang every time.

 

[Jennie-Mae]

Blocky, yes. But I think that blockiness has a certain charm to it.

I don't know where people get the horrible trigger thing from. Nothing beats a good 1911 in that dept, but compared with other guns, the trigger is painfully average. If you want a bad one, I'll send you a kel-tec or a beretta nano. Those are start pulling on Monday, fire on Saturday triggers.

Glock sights are terrible.

Yyyyyep. They do go bang every time. Revolvers with mags.

To me at least, the value of the Glock is in the reliability, maintenance, and carryability. Until recent years, I would add their striker-fired system is optimal for self-defense situations, but everybody else has those now.

For size and weight ergos, Glock is still king from the compact to the full-size models. It's the single-stacks that I don't dig.

Revolvers with mags? Ain't nobody heard of that. Pistols drools, revolvers rules.

 

[Desdichado]

I have nothing against revolvers. They look smashing behind glass.

Revolvers with mags? Ain't nobody heard of that. Pistols drools, revolvers rules.

 

[Jennie-Mae]

I have nothing against revolvers. They look smashing behind glass.

At least they can spew out their bullets en masse.

 

[hornetguy]

I'm not a Glock fanboy.... I've owned exactly one of them...the medium frame .40 S&W ...mod 23? I think...

It was a good gun. Very reliable, had night sights... trigger was mediocre at best.

I know some people slam Taurus for their iffy quality control, but the ones I've had have been excellent. The TCP is the only one I've had to physically tweak on to make it fully dependable. I've put over a thousand rounds through both my 24/7 in .45 acp, and my PT111 G2 in 9mm.... neither has failed to feed/fire/extract/eject with any factory ammo. I did have some failures to feed with some of my cast bullet reloads in the .45, but that was all bullet style/weight.

For a full size 9mm, I have a Canik TP9 SA.... almost exactly the same size as the full size Glock... it's been a 100% reliable shooter, as well.

Each of those guns is at LEAST $150 less than their Glock counterparts... and the triggers are way better on each of them than the Glock "safe" trigger.

 

[hornetguy]

Don't get me wrong, I LIKE Glocks... they are arguably the most proven reliable handgun ever made, for out of the box.

1911's are incredibly reliable, too, but to get that "drop it in the mud" reliability, the tolerances have to be pretty sloppy, which negatively affects accuracy.... which is the reason behind most GI's coming home with the stories of "you can't hit the broad side of a barn" with em... When the tolerances are tightened up, the accuracy can be scary good.

Then there are the Sig's, H&K's, Walthers, etc... all are excellent handguns... but all (except some of the lower end Walthers) are considerably higher in price.. which leaves a lot of us out in the cold.

I would LOVE to have a nice 1911... Ruger/Remington/Springfield Armory.... but I have difficulty justifying spending $700 plus for a .45, when I have my higher capacity, $350 Taurus in the same caliber.

 

[Desdichado]

Maybe it's where I live, but Walthers have come down in price. Plus they have rebates going on a lot now. A Glock would have cost me more than my PPS M2. Sig has also come down in price, but I hear from friends that reliability went down along with the price. The new 320's have a few kinks they need to iron out.

H&K is RIDICULOUS. I've shot the VP9 and like it, but I also wouldn't drop 40k for a BMW that does the same things as my Subaru.

Don't get me wrong, I LIKE Glocks... they are arguably the most proven reliable handgun ever made, for out of the box.

1911's are incredibly reliable, too, but to get that "drop it in the mud" reliability, the tolerances have to be pretty sloppy, which negatively affects accuracy.... which is the reason behind most GI's coming home with the stories of "you can't hit the broad side of a barn" with em... When the tolerances are tightened up, the accuracy can be scary good.

Then there are the Sig's, H&K's, Walthers, etc... all are excellent handguns... but all (except some of the lower end Walthers) are considerably higher in price.. which leaves a lot of us out in the cold.

I would LOVE to have a nice 1911... Ruger/Remington/Springfield Armory.... but I have difficulty justifying spending $700 plus for a .45, when I have my higher capacity, $350 Taurus in the same caliber.

 

[Desdichado]

I find 1911's to be ridiculously accurate at legally reasonable self defense distances. A trigger on a good 1911 is simply second to none.

I considered getting one for concealed carry, but the maintenance, weight, capacity, etc just wasn't in my wheelhouse. That and I think the .45 is overrated when defensive rounds are taken into consideration.