The Gun Thread
- Thread starter Desdichado
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I do not directly engage you because you appear to be a person of ill-will. Your criticisms of gun control and gun culture are intertwined with a clear hatred for America and Americans.
This is, perhaps, why Americans gang up on you in these forums. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind, buddy.
I, for one, would be quick to point out that there would be no America as we know it without England. But for those spats in the late 18th and early 19th centuries, we're certainly kin folk culturally speaking.
I'd also be quick to point out that, as with France, Britain can also be thanked for the post 1776 prosperity of our country. Try having trade without a Royal Navy patrolling the globe. Try winning or even getting to Yorktown without the French military.
Additionally, there are reforms the modern UK has made that I would love to see cross the pond as they are more compatible with notions of liberty than present American policy.
Heck, I'll even throw this in- It's very probable that Edmund Burke, a British statesman, has more singular influence on the modern Right in America than any one of our Founders with the probable exception of Thomas Jefferson.
But I've just sat on these points because, from the get-go, you have displayed the same dismissive and disrespectful behavior you accuse Americans of. Sans support for gun ownership, of course.
This is, perhaps, why Americans gang up on you in these forums. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind, buddy.
I, for one, would be quick to point out that there would be no America as we know it without England. But for those spats in the late 18th and early 19th centuries, we're certainly kin folk culturally speaking.
I'd also be quick to point out that, as with France, Britain can also be thanked for the post 1776 prosperity of our country. Try having trade without a Royal Navy patrolling the globe. Try winning or even getting to Yorktown without the French military.
Additionally, there are reforms the modern UK has made that I would love to see cross the pond as they are more compatible with notions of liberty than present American policy.
Heck, I'll even throw this in- It's very probable that Edmund Burke, a British statesman, has more singular influence on the modern Right in America than any one of our Founders with the probable exception of Thomas Jefferson.
But I've just sat on these points because, from the get-go, you have displayed the same dismissive and disrespectful behavior you accuse Americans of. Sans support for gun ownership, of course.
In this case, I absolutely agree. But I do want to say it's fine for people to come in and voice disagreements with us on guns though I would prefer they go and make a separate thread.
If they respectfully disagree and want to have a look into this distinctive feature of American culture, cool! It gives us an opportunity to give them points they would have not otherwise considered. They may even give us ideas for reforms that do not infringe on our 2nd A rights, but keep guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists.
As the OP, I say that this kind of constructive and respectful dialogue is quite welcome.
But this dude came in charging at the Stars and Stripes, inferring we are psychotic and Godless in the first post. Then moved on call us nasty and proud when some of us responded in-kind.
If he persists, I encourage you all to put him on ignore and be done with it if you want to discuss things like kydex, ballistics, etc.
But I want to make it very clear that this place is open to respectful, inquiring minds.
If they respectfully disagree and want to have a look into this distinctive feature of American culture, cool! It gives us an opportunity to give them points they would have not otherwise considered. They may even give us ideas for reforms that do not infringe on our 2nd A rights, but keep guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorists.
As the OP, I say that this kind of constructive and respectful dialogue is quite welcome.
But this dude came in charging at the Stars and Stripes, inferring we are psychotic and Godless in the first post. Then moved on call us nasty and proud when some of us responded in-kind.
If he persists, I encourage you all to put him on ignore and be done with it if you want to discuss things like kydex, ballistics, etc.
But I want to make it very clear that this place is open to respectful, inquiring minds.
A competition gun is a different animal. I mean, if I was a big guy and I needed a gun for every conceivable practical use AND competition use, I would consider a Glock 17. It's still light, so with the right belt and holster combo, it would probably work well. Just be prepared for a little chafing.
Last edited:
Y
Earnest, I think you'll like the mods I made to my Glock 26. I also had the "it's too short for my hand" problem, but after changing the floor plate on the magazines to give me an extra place for my pinky finger to rest, problem solved. Some might say "ah you should have bought the full-sized Glock", and it's got some credibility, but it's hard to conceal a full sized Glock. I can carry my 26 in quite a few places and not print a bit.
More imaginative reasoning. Apparently a gun can be compared to a rock on the ground. Guns just appear out of nowhere, grow on trees, naturally formed. I hear what you are saying about recreation and sport, but now you are saying they are not for protection. Which one is it? A gun was invented and designed to kill, it is a man made weapon. If you decide to use it as a walking stick, it doesn't change what is was designed for. How can you say it is not a weapon? That's beyond stupidity.
gun - a weapon incorporating a metal tube from which bullets, shells, or other missiles are propelled by explosive force, typically making a characteristic loud, sharp noise.
gun - a weapon incorporating a metal tube from which bullets, shells, or other missiles are propelled by explosive force, typically making a characteristic loud, sharp noise.
The real value of the 26 is that the barrel length is perrrrrfect for concealed carry. Added floor plates, etc kind of defeat the purpose, but not enough for me to go full anti-modification.
Again, because of the barrel length. Meow.
As for concealment, it all depends on what he wears and his body type (and I know you know this. preach'n to the choir here). Most people couldn't do a Glock 17 on a daily basis, but if you're pretty tall or wide, it could work out for you. You'd probably be less likely to carry though.
I fall back to my other suggestion, if you're not comfortable with the factory Glock 26 or 17, Glock has the good ol' reliable 19 in the middle.
That's what I carry most months of the year and I diggit. Though I've gotta say my Walther PPS makes it soooooo easy.
Again, because of the barrel length. Meow.
As for concealment, it all depends on what he wears and his body type (and I know you know this. preach'n to the choir here). Most people couldn't do a Glock 17 on a daily basis, but if you're pretty tall or wide, it could work out for you. You'd probably be less likely to carry though.
I fall back to my other suggestion, if you're not comfortable with the factory Glock 26 or 17, Glock has the good ol' reliable 19 in the middle.
That's what I carry most months of the year and I diggit. Though I've gotta say my Walther PPS makes it soooooo easy.
Y
I'm not sure what your issue is, nor am I interested in finding out, but watching you try to grind your axe is laughable at best. If I give you a lolli and pat you on the head, will you go away?
Doubtful. You've got a point to make, and by golly, even if you're just standing on your soapbox ranting like a loon, you are certainly going to keep ranting, louder and louder until you are made the center of everyone's attention.
We don't care about whatever facts you can dig up that make your case while you disregard anything that doesn't agree. We don't care what your axe to grind with Americans or American society is. We don't care if you think we're all Godless heathens while YOU are so righteous and an exemplar of "how Christians ought to be". We just don't care.
But rant on fella. It's your dime (that's a nasty, Godless, American colloquialism in case you missed it).
Doubtful. You've got a point to make, and by golly, even if you're just standing on your soapbox ranting like a loon, you are certainly going to keep ranting, louder and louder until you are made the center of everyone's attention.
We don't care about whatever facts you can dig up that make your case while you disregard anything that doesn't agree. We don't care what your axe to grind with Americans or American society is. We don't care if you think we're all Godless heathens while YOU are so righteous and an exemplar of "how Christians ought to be". We just don't care.
But rant on fella. It's your dime (that's a nasty, Godless, American colloquialism in case you missed it).
Y
I can say that I don't disagree with that assessment. The factory trigger, factory slide release, factory magazine release, and factory sights are not the most desirable parts. They sure do work well though. I think that if a person wanted to be picky enough, they could find something wrong with any weapon.
Too bad that there are snobs in every area. Gun snobs are some of the worst. Perhaps I just "aim low" (no pun intended), but so long as a weapon functions as intended, goes bang every time I pull the trigger, and isn't terribly picky about what brand of ammo it is fed, then I am quite content. The ability to say I spent $2000 on a handgun doesn't mean anything to me, especially when my $450 handgun works better, experiences less functional errors, and I can out-shoot the dude with the expensive paperweight that stovepipes 1 round out of every mag.
Too bad that there are snobs in every area. Gun snobs are some of the worst. Perhaps I just "aim low" (no pun intended), but so long as a weapon functions as intended, goes bang every time I pull the trigger, and isn't terribly picky about what brand of ammo it is fed, then I am quite content. The ability to say I spent $2000 on a handgun doesn't mean anything to me, especially when my $450 handgun works better, experiences less functional errors, and I can out-shoot the dude with the expensive paperweight that stovepipes 1 round out of every mag.
Blocky, yes. But I think that blockiness has a certain charm to it.
I don't know where people get the horrible trigger thing from. Nothing beats a good 1911 in that dept, but compared with other guns, the trigger is painfully average. If you want a bad one, I'll send you a kel-tec or a beretta nano. Those are start pulling on Monday, fire on Saturday triggers.
Glock sights are terrible.
Yyyyyep. They do go bang every time. Revolvers with mags.
To me at least, the value of the Glock is in the reliability, maintenance, and carryability. Until recent years, I would add their striker-fired system is optimal for self-defense situations, but everybody else has those now.
For size and weight ergos, Glock is still king from the compact to the full-size models. It's the single-stacks that I don't dig.
I don't know where people get the horrible trigger thing from. Nothing beats a good 1911 in that dept, but compared with other guns, the trigger is painfully average. If you want a bad one, I'll send you a kel-tec or a beretta nano. Those are start pulling on Monday, fire on Saturday triggers.
Glock sights are terrible.
Yyyyyep. They do go bang every time. Revolvers with mags.
To me at least, the value of the Glock is in the reliability, maintenance, and carryability. Until recent years, I would add their striker-fired system is optimal for self-defense situations, but everybody else has those now.
For size and weight ergos, Glock is still king from the compact to the full-size models. It's the single-stacks that I don't dig.
.
I'm not a Glock fanboy.... I've owned exactly one of them...the medium frame .40 S&W ...mod 23? I think...
It was a good gun. Very reliable, had night sights... trigger was mediocre at best.
I know some people slam Taurus for their iffy quality control, but the ones I've had have been excellent. The TCP is the only one I've had to physically tweak on to make it fully dependable. I've put over a thousand rounds through both my 24/7 in .45 acp, and my PT111 G2 in 9mm.... neither has failed to feed/fire/extract/eject with any factory ammo. I did have some failures to feed with some of my cast bullet reloads in the .45, but that was all bullet style/weight.
For a full size 9mm, I have a Canik TP9 SA.... almost exactly the same size as the full size Glock... it's been a 100% reliable shooter, as well.
Each of those guns is at LEAST $150 less than their Glock counterparts... and the triggers are way better on each of them than the Glock "safe" trigger.
It was a good gun. Very reliable, had night sights... trigger was mediocre at best.
I know some people slam Taurus for their iffy quality control, but the ones I've had have been excellent. The TCP is the only one I've had to physically tweak on to make it fully dependable. I've put over a thousand rounds through both my 24/7 in .45 acp, and my PT111 G2 in 9mm.... neither has failed to feed/fire/extract/eject with any factory ammo. I did have some failures to feed with some of my cast bullet reloads in the .45, but that was all bullet style/weight.
For a full size 9mm, I have a Canik TP9 SA.... almost exactly the same size as the full size Glock... it's been a 100% reliable shooter, as well.
Each of those guns is at LEAST $150 less than their Glock counterparts... and the triggers are way better on each of them than the Glock "safe" trigger.
Don't get me wrong, I LIKE Glocks... they are arguably the most proven reliable handgun ever made, for out of the box.
1911's are incredibly reliable, too, but to get that "drop it in the mud" reliability, the tolerances have to be pretty sloppy, which negatively affects accuracy.... which is the reason behind most GI's coming home with the stories of "you can't hit the broad side of a barn" with em... When the tolerances are tightened up, the accuracy can be scary good.
Then there are the Sig's, H&K's, Walthers, etc... all are excellent handguns... but all (except some of the lower end Walthers) are considerably higher in price.. which leaves a lot of us out in the cold.
I would LOVE to have a nice 1911... Ruger/Remington/Springfield Armory.... but I have difficulty justifying spending $700 plus for a .45, when I have my higher capacity, $350 Taurus in the same caliber.
1911's are incredibly reliable, too, but to get that "drop it in the mud" reliability, the tolerances have to be pretty sloppy, which negatively affects accuracy.... which is the reason behind most GI's coming home with the stories of "you can't hit the broad side of a barn" with em... When the tolerances are tightened up, the accuracy can be scary good.
Then there are the Sig's, H&K's, Walthers, etc... all are excellent handguns... but all (except some of the lower end Walthers) are considerably higher in price.. which leaves a lot of us out in the cold.
I would LOVE to have a nice 1911... Ruger/Remington/Springfield Armory.... but I have difficulty justifying spending $700 plus for a .45, when I have my higher capacity, $350 Taurus in the same caliber.
Maybe it's where I live, but Walthers have come down in price. Plus they have rebates going on a lot now. A Glock would have cost me more than my PPS M2. Sig has also come down in price, but I hear from friends that reliability went down along with the price. The new 320's have a few kinks they need to iron out.
H&K is RIDICULOUS. I've shot the VP9 and like it, but I also wouldn't drop 40k for a BMW that does the same things as my Subaru.
H&K is RIDICULOUS. I've shot the VP9 and like it, but I also wouldn't drop 40k for a BMW that does the same things as my Subaru.
I find 1911's to be ridiculously accurate at legally reasonable self defense distances. A trigger on a good 1911 is simply second to none.
I considered getting one for concealed carry, but the maintenance, weight, capacity, etc just wasn't in my wheelhouse. That and I think the .45 is overrated when defensive rounds are taken into consideration.
I considered getting one for concealed carry, but the maintenance, weight, capacity, etc just wasn't in my wheelhouse. That and I think the .45 is overrated when defensive rounds are taken into consideration.