Rediscovering pisteuo.

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Watchman22 said:
We've looked at the A,B,Cs of Faith and faithing. The views at least support that their are some following.

This thread will give important information about how saving faith and faithing has been lost to time.

This is about rediscovering NT pisteuo. We don't need to discover any new truths, we need to rediscover the old truths.

It's been apoximately 500 years since William Tindale realized he couldn't translate the most important word in the Greek texts into the English language.

What is the most important word in the NT?
It's the Greek word "pisteuo."
I'm aware of the word "Grace", but Grace avails nothing if pisteuo isn't fulfilled correctly.

Why couldn't Tindale correctly translate "pisteuo" into the English language?

It's because the English language has no word to translate pisteuo. The English language has no corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" like the Greek does.

What is the Greek word pisteuo?

"Pisteuo" is the corresponding verb to the noun "pistis". The Greek word "pistis" is where we get our English word "Faith".

Where is the corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" in the English language?

There is none! The words the English language should have had for Tindale and the other translators are "faithe", "faither", and "faithing". But those words are not in the English language and weren't available for Tindale and the others translators.

So what did William Tindale do?

Tindale had to make a choice, stop his translation into the English language, or choose a different word. He decided to use the words "believe", "believer", and "believing", 248 times.
Gods word specifically warns against anyone adding or subtracting from the primary texts. Even if done unintentionally, in my opinion he has laid the foundation for the wide path Jesus warns us about. Here we are, 500 years later, and most called out ones are standing on the mistranslated words "believe", "believer", and "believing". Thinking, if i simply "believe " in what Jesus said, did, and promised, I will immediately receive the Grace deposit or Holy Spirit. That's not the correct response to the call of the Father required to start, maintain, and complete the salvation journey here on earth.

Here are some facts about the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing.
1) These words are not in the Greek language. Our teachers, churches, Bible colleges, and internet claim that if i look up the word "believe" in the Greek, it means "pisteuo". Pisteuo was mistranslated into the English, and then stamped back out onto the Greek. The Greek does not acknowledge a state of being where one is only " believing" in something. In the Greek, we are either moving towards something, "pisteuo", or the reverse action, moving away from something, "Apisteuo". No neutral or middle ground in the Greek

2) The mistranslated words believe, believing, and believer change the "object of faith" from a one on one personal relationship with God, a real living person, to what He did, said, and promised. Gods word cannot be the object of faith, it must be the living person.

3) Pisteuo is a verb, an action word that encompasses 3 parts. A specific act (the personal surrender to Him) based upon a belief (that he will accept the surrendered life) sustained by confidence (by making all the 100s of daily decisions supporting the fact our lives are not ours anymore, but His now.) "Believing " is only one of the 3, taken on its own is error.

4) Believe, believer, and believing are corresponding verbs to the noun "belief", not the noun "faith".

5) The definition of "believe " is "an opinion held in good faith without the necessary reference to its proof."

6) The Strongs gives the disclaimer "pisteuo means not just to believe. The Vines definition of pisteuo, "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. " This is not a one time surrender, it's surrendering every day, all day if necessary, making a better one each day. This is the perfecting process. Saints are not people who are perfect, Saints are candidates for perfection. God is not looking a perfect surrendered life, simply a genuine one.

7) God sees us from A to Z, "A" being what He wants first. (And that's someone who will continuously surrender their lives to Him, and live a life that supports that surrender. )
We see God from Z to A, "Z" being what we want first. ( And that's His Grace deposit and His promises. )

Salvation is by Grace "through faith," (faithing) through a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

Jay
Click to expand...

Bumped for vassel
 
Watchman22 said:
We've looked at the A,B,Cs of Faith and faithing. The views at least support that their are some following.

This thread will give important information about how saving faith and faithing has been lost to time.

This is about rediscovering NT pisteuo. We don't need to discover any new truths, we need to rediscover the old truths.

It's been apoximately 500 years since William Tindale realized he couldn't translate the most important word in the Greek texts into the English language.

What is the most important word in the NT?
It's the Greek word "pisteuo."
I'm aware of the word "Grace", but Grace avails nothing if pisteuo isn't fulfilled correctly.

Why couldn't Tindale correctly translate "pisteuo" into the English language?

It's because the English language has no word to translate pisteuo. The English language has no corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" like the Greek does.

What is the Greek word pisteuo?

"Pisteuo" is the corresponding verb to the noun "pistis". The Greek word "pistis" is where we get our English word "Faith".

Where is the corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" in the English language?

There is none! The words the English language should have had for Tindale and the other translators are "faithe", "faither", and "faithing". But those words are not in the English language and weren't available for Tindale and the others translators.

So what did William Tindale do?

Tindale had to make a choice, stop his translation into the English language, or choose a different word. He decided to use the words "believe", "believer", and "believing", 248 times.
Gods word specifically warns against anyone adding or subtracting from the primary texts. Even if done unintentionally, in my opinion he has laid the foundation for the wide path Jesus warns us about. Here we are, 500 years later, and most called out ones are standing on the mistranslated words "believe", "believer", and "believing". Thinking, if i simply "believe " in what Jesus said, did, and promised, I will immediately receive the Grace deposit or Holy Spirit. That's not the correct response to the call of the Father required to start, maintain, and complete the salvation journey here on earth.

Here are some facts about the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing.
1) These words are not in the Greek language. Our teachers, churches, Bible colleges, and internet claim that if i look up the word "believe" in the Greek, it means "pisteuo". Pisteuo was mistranslated into the English, and then stamped back out onto the Greek. The Greek does not acknowledge a state of being where one is only " believing" in something. In the Greek, we are either moving towards something, "pisteuo", or the reverse action, moving away from something, "Apisteuo". No neutral or middle ground in the Greek

2) The mistranslated words believe, believing, and believer change the "object of faith" from a one on one personal relationship with God, a real living person, to what He did, said, and promised. Gods word cannot be the object of faith, it must be the living person.

3) Pisteuo is a verb, an action word that encompasses 3 parts. A specific act (the personal surrender to Him) based upon a belief (that he will accept the surrendered life) sustained by confidence (by making all the 100s of daily decisions supporting the fact our lives are not ours anymore, but His now.) "Believing " is only one of the 3, taken on its own is error.

4) Believe, believer, and believing are corresponding verbs to the noun "belief", not the noun "faith".

5) The definition of "believe " is "an opinion held in good faith without the necessary reference to its proof."

6) The Strongs gives the disclaimer "pisteuo means not just to believe. The Vines definition of pisteuo, "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. " This is not a one time surrender, it's surrendering every day, all day if necessary, making a better one each day. This is the perfecting process. Saints are not people who are perfect, Saints are candidates for perfection. God is not looking a perfect surrendered life, simply a genuine one.

7) God sees us from A to Z, "A" being what He wants first. (And that's someone who will continuously surrender their lives to Him, and live a life that supports that surrender. )
We see God from Z to A, "Z" being what we want first. ( And that's His Grace deposit and His promises. )

Salvation is by Grace "through faith," (faithing) through a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

Jay
Click to expand...
OK, I included the word "rediscovering" and that helped. Is this where you want to start?
 
Watchman22 said:
We've looked at the A,B,Cs of Faith and faithing. The views at least support that their are some following.

This thread will give important information about how saving faith and faithing has been lost to time.

This is about rediscovering NT pisteuo. We don't need to discover any new truths, we need to rediscover the old truths.

It's been apoximately 500 years since William Tindale realized he couldn't translate the most important word in the Greek texts into the English language.

What is the most important word in the NT?
It's the Greek word "pisteuo."
I'm aware of the word "Grace", but Grace avails nothing if pisteuo isn't fulfilled correctly.

Why couldn't Tindale correctly translate "pisteuo" into the English language?

It's because the English language has no word to translate pisteuo. The English language has no corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" like the Greek does.

What is the Greek word pisteuo?

"Pisteuo" is the corresponding verb to the noun "pistis". The Greek word "pistis" is where we get our English word "Faith".

Where is the corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" in the English language?

There is none! The words the English language should have had for Tindale and the other translators are "faithe", "faither", and "faithing". But those words are not in the English language and weren't available for Tindale and the others translators.

So what did William Tindale do?

Tindale had to make a choice, stop his translation into the English language, or choose a different word. He decided to use the words "believe", "believer", and "believing", 248 times.
Gods word specifically warns against anyone adding or subtracting from the primary texts. Even if done unintentionally, in my opinion he has laid the foundation for the wide path Jesus warns us about. Here we are, 500 years later, and most called out ones are standing on the mistranslated words "believe", "believer", and "believing". Thinking, if i simply "believe " in what Jesus said, did, and promised, I will immediately receive the Grace deposit or Holy Spirit. That's not the correct response to the call of the Father required to start, maintain, and complete the salvation journey here on earth.

Here are some facts about the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing.
1) These words are not in the Greek language. Our teachers, churches, Bible colleges, and internet claim that if i look up the word "believe" in the Greek, it means "pisteuo". Pisteuo was mistranslated into the English, and then stamped back out onto the Greek. The Greek does not acknowledge a state of being where one is only " believing" in something. In the Greek, we are either moving towards something, "pisteuo", or the reverse action, moving away from something, "Apisteuo". No neutral or middle ground in the Greek

2) The mistranslated words believe, believing, and believer change the "object of faith" from a one on one personal relationship with God, a real living person, to what He did, said, and promised. Gods word cannot be the object of faith, it must be the living person.

3) Pisteuo is a verb, an action word that encompasses 3 parts. A specific act (the personal surrender to Him) based upon a belief (that he will accept the surrendered life) sustained by confidence (by making all the 100s of daily decisions supporting the fact our lives are not ours anymore, but His now.) "Believing " is only one of the 3, taken on its own is error.

4) Believe, believer, and believing are corresponding verbs to the noun "belief", not the noun "faith".

5) The definition of "believe " is "an opinion held in good faith without the necessary reference to its proof."

6) The Strongs gives the disclaimer "pisteuo means not just to believe. The Vines definition of pisteuo, "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. " This is not a one time surrender, it's surrendering every day, all day if necessary, making a better one each day. This is the perfecting process. Saints are not people who are perfect, Saints are candidates for perfection. God is not looking a perfect surrendered life, simply a genuine one.

7) God sees us from A to Z, "A" being what He wants first. (And that's someone who will continuously surrender their lives to Him, and live a life that supports that surrender. )
We see God from Z to A, "Z" being what we want first. ( And that's His Grace deposit and His promises. )

Salvation is by Grace "through faith," (faithing) through a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

Jay
Click to expand...
Nice post, I agree with it I see the same problems a misapplication of the word pisteuo causes.
 
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vassal said:
Nice post, I agree with it I see the same problems a misapplication of the word pisteuo causes.
Click to expand...


Thanks Vassel,
Your in canada?
Do you surrender your life to Him on a daily basis? and do you live a life inspired by that surrender?
 
Watchman22 said:
Yes
Click to expand...
I agree that the word "believe" is inadequate. Many commentators and preachers draw a distinction between intellectual acceptance of facts and believing that leads to salvation. I know the difference because I believed all the basic facts before I was saved. I considered myself a Christian in spite of a lifestyle that was anything but. I also detested church and real Christians made me nervous.

As you say, there is no English word that can replace pisteuo exactly. So it requires some explanation. Good commentaries help and preachers who know the truth also. Since there is such a lack of preaching truth these days, there are a lot of people who are given the "only believe" pseudo gospel. I was blessed to be led to Jesus by someone who knew God's word intimately.

I know now that I was born again. I did not know at the time. All I knew was that I no longer carried a heavy burden of guilt. The Bible that previously I could not read I became almost addicted to. I knew that I had to go to church. That was a bit of a battle until I found a church that was not Anglican. I only knew Anglican and Catholic. And in my upbringing, catholicism was considered to be akin to having leprosy.

The question for every new Christian is "Now what?" I did not have a stable church to go to as I was in the Navy and I traveled a lot. I discovered a lot about myself, none of it good. And I discovered the power of Jesus to deliver me from those things that hindered my walk.

Some on the forum seem to think that God demands instant perfection and is looking for any excuse to kick us out of His kingdom. I can assure you that God is patient with His people because He knows what we are like. The great apostle Peter got caught up in hypocrisy because he refused to eat with gentile believers. Paul rebuked him. Barnabus got mad at Paul and quit the ministry. A number of people let Paul down. There was trouble in the early church, which is why most of the NT was written.

There is no instant perfection. I've been born again for over 50 years and I'm not perfect yet. When I get my new body, sin will no longer even be able to tempt me. Until then, I carry my cross daily and seek to lose my life. Most people don't know what that means. Who preaches this stuff these days?

I don't like the King James. English 500 years ago was not the same as it is now. However, there are two verses that KJV gets right that the others do not. This is one:

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Those who believe that we can lose our salvation should take that verse to heart. I live by the faith of Jesus. If He can fail, so can I, If he can be unbelieving, so can I, if He can lose faith, So can I. I have been "crossed out".

Do I always live like it? No. Does Jesus change? No. So I confess my sin and get on with life.

The word salvation has become Christian code for going to heaven when you die. It is so much more than that. It is the deliverance of the soul from self, sin, satanic bondages and worldly attitudes. It starts with the new birth and continues for as long as we live.

Some respond much more quickly to the Lord than others. Watchman Nee was amazing, a true apostle who transformed China. Spurgeon was preached to 23,000 when he was just 23. Others are much slower to grow, for all kinds of reasons. Our part is to look to Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith.
 
Gideon300 said:
I agree that the word "believe" is inadequate. Many commentators and preachers draw a distinction between intellectual acceptance of facts and believing that leads to salvation. I know the difference because I believed all the basic facts before I was saved. I considered myself a Christian in spite of a lifestyle that was anything but. I also detested church and real Christians made me nervous.

As you say, there is no English word that can replace pisteuo exactly. So it requires some explanation. Good commentaries help and preachers who know the truth also. Since there is such a lack of preaching truth these days, there are a lot of people who are given the "only believe" pseudo gospel. I was blessed to be led to Jesus by someone who knew God's word intimately.

I know now that I was born again. I did not know at the time. All I knew was that I no longer carried a heavy burden of guilt. The Bible that previously I could not read I became almost addicted to. I knew that I had to go to church. That was a bit of a battle until I found a church that was not Anglican. I only knew Anglican and Catholic. And in my upbringing, catholicism was considered to be akin to having leprosy.

The question for every new Christian is "Now what?" I did not have a stable church to go to as I was in the Navy and I traveled a lot. I discovered a lot about myself, none of it good. And I discovered the power of Jesus to deliver me from those things that hindered my walk.

Some on the forum seem to think that God demands instant perfection and is looking for any excuse to kick us out of His kingdom. I can assure you that God is patient with His people because He knows what we are like. The great apostle Peter got caught up in hypocrisy because he refused to eat with gentile believers. Paul rebuked him. Barnabus got mad at Paul and quit the ministry. A number of people let Paul down. There was trouble in the early church, which is why most of the NT was written.

There is no instant perfection. I've been born again for over 50 years and I'm not perfect yet. When I get my new body, sin will no longer even be able to tempt me. Until then, I carry my cross daily and seek to lose my life. Most people don't know what that means. Who preaches this stuff these days?

I don't like the King James. English 500 years ago was not the same as it is now. However, there are two verses that KJV gets right that the others do not. This is one:

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Those who believe that we can lose our salvation should take that verse to heart. I live by the faith of Jesus. If He can fail, so can I, If he can be unbelieving, so can I, if He can lose faith, So can I. I have been "crossed out".

Do I always live like it? No. Does Jesus change? No. So I confess my sin and get on with life.

The word salvation has become Christian code for going to heaven when you die. It is so much more than that. It is the deliverance of the soul from self, sin, satanic bondages and worldly attitudes. It starts with the new birth and continues for as long as we live.

Some respond much more quickly to the Lord than others. Watchman Nee was amazing, a true apostle who transformed China. Spurgeon was preached to 23,000 when he was just 23. Others are much slower to grow, for all kinds of reasons. Our part is to look to Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the great reply.

Do you agree with how the Vines Greek dictionary defines pisteuo?

Are you familiar with that t Greek word?
 
Gideon300 said:
I agree that the word "believe" is inadequate.
Click to expand...

Yet it is also part of pisteuo and must be included in the definition. The problem is that believing information is made to be the main and even the only focus of what pisteuo means. But this problem is not resolved by pushing the pendulum to the other extreme and rejecting that becoming convinced of and believing information is not part of pisteuo.
 
Watchman22 said:
Thanks Vassel,
Your in canada?
Do you surrender your life to Him on a daily basis? and do you live a life inspired by that surrender?
Click to expand...
yes in Canada and yes I follow my Master ( jesus) and follow no one else, i surrendered a long time ago and follow his path
 
studier said:
Yet it is also part of pisteuo and must be included in the definition. The problem is that believing information is made to be the main and even the only focus of what pisteuo means. But this problem is not resolved by pushing the pendulum to the other extreme and rejecting that becoming convinced of and believing information is not part of pisteuo.
Click to expand...

Believe is an English word only.
Theres no word Believe in the Greek language.

When the English translators used the English only words believe, believer,and believing, now when you look at where the word believe in the Greek comes from, the English stamps it back out of the English, onto the Greek. Mistranslated in, Mistranslated out.
 
Watchman22 said:
We've looked at the A,B,Cs of Faith and faithing. The views at least support that their are some following.

This thread will give important information about how saving faith and faithing has been lost to time.

This is about rediscovering NT pisteuo. We don't need to discover any new truths, we need to rediscover the old truths.

It's been apoximately 500 years since William Tindale realized he couldn't translate the most important word in the Greek texts into the English language.

What is the most important word in the NT?
It's the Greek word "pisteuo."
I'm aware of the word "Grace", but Grace avails nothing if pisteuo isn't fulfilled correctly.

Why couldn't Tindale correctly translate "pisteuo" into the English language?

It's because the English language has no word to translate pisteuo. The English language has no corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" like the Greek does.

What is the Greek word pisteuo?

"Pisteuo" is the corresponding verb to the noun "pistis". The Greek word "pistis" is where we get our English word "Faith".

Where is the corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" in the English language?

There is none! The words the English language should have had for Tindale and the other translators are "faithe", "faither", and "faithing". But those words are not in the English language and weren't available for Tindale and the others translators.

So what did William Tindale do?

Tindale had to make a choice, stop his translation into the English language, or choose a different word. He decided to use the words "believe", "believer", and "believing", 248 times.
Gods word specifically warns against anyone adding or subtracting from the primary texts. Even if done unintentionally, in my opinion he has laid the foundation for the wide path Jesus warns us about. Here we are, 500 years later, and most called out ones are standing on the mistranslated words "believe", "believer", and "believing". Thinking, if i simply "believe " in what Jesus said, did, and promised, I will immediately receive the Grace deposit or Holy Spirit. That's not the correct response to the call of the Father required to start, maintain, and complete the salvation journey here on earth.

Here are some facts about the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing.
1) These words are not in the Greek language. Our teachers, churches, Bible colleges, and internet claim that if i look up the word "believe" in the Greek, it means "pisteuo". Pisteuo was mistranslated into the English, and then stamped back out onto the Greek. The Greek does not acknowledge a state of being where one is only " believing" in something. In the Greek, we are either moving towards something, "pisteuo", or the reverse action, moving away from something, "Apisteuo". No neutral or middle ground in the Greek

2) The mistranslated words believe, believing, and believer change the "object of faith" from a one on one personal relationship with God, a real living person, to what He did, said, and promised. Gods word cannot be the object of faith, it must be the living person.

3) Pisteuo is a verb, an action word that encompasses 3 parts. A specific act (the personal surrender to Him) based upon a belief (that he will accept the surrendered life) sustained by confidence (by making all the 100s of daily decisions supporting the fact our lives are not ours anymore, but His now.) "Believing " is only one of the 3, taken on its own is error.

4) Believe, believer, and believing are corresponding verbs to the noun "belief", not the noun "faith".

5) The definition of "believe " is "an opinion held in good faith without the necessary reference to its proof."

6) The Strongs gives the disclaimer "pisteuo means not just to believe. The Vines definition of pisteuo, "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. " This is not a one time surrender, it's surrendering every day, all day if necessary, making a better one each day. This is the perfecting process. Saints are not people who are perfect, Saints are candidates for perfection. God is not looking a perfect surrendered life, simply a genuine one.

7) God sees us from A to Z, "A" being what He wants first. (And that's someone who will continuously surrender their lives to Him, and live a life that supports that surrender. )
We see God from Z to A, "Z" being what we want first. ( And that's His Grace deposit and His promises. )

Salvation is by Grace "through faith," (faithing) through a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

Jay
Click to expand...
Wonderful work and very edifying. Bookmarked!

Just food for thought:
A specific act (the personal surrender to Him) based upon a belief (that he will accept the surrendered life)

In my view, the better terminology would be:
- a specific act to lambano/dechomi (RECEIVE) Christ as Lord and Savior (positive volition!)

-based upon a belief that He will accept-forgive the one who comes to Him, furthermore those who did truly receive Him are now willing to follow Him, and take part in the Great Commission as His ambassadors (positive volition!)

These ideas have their necessary counterpart in the OT of course.

My own view is that a word study of the term "surrender" is generally negative, where BAD things happen because of NEGATIVE volition.
Yes, the term "surrender" is common parlance used today, but in my view, wrongly applied to the POSITIVE volition expressed by receiving Christ. Think Zaccheus!

*************************************************************************************************

Lev 1:3-4
3If his offering is a burnt offering from the herd, he is to present an unblemished male. He must bring it to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting for its acceptance before the LORD. 4He is to lay his hand on the head of the burnt offering, so it can be accepted on his behalf to make atonement for him.

Lev 4:20-21
20He shall offer this bull just as he did the bull for the sin offering; in this way the priest will make atonement on their behalf, and they will be forgiven. 21Then he is to take the bull outside the camp and burn it, just as he burned the first bull. It is the sin offering for the assembly.
 
studier said:
Yet it is also part of pisteuo and must be included in the definition. The problem is that believing information is made to be the main and even the only focus of what pisteuo means. But this problem is not resolved by pushing the pendulum to the other extreme and rejecting that becoming convinced of and believing information is not part of pisteuo.
Click to expand...


The problem with introducing the word "believe" into the faith process is the most dangerous at the beginning of the process, before the Spirit of Christ is given.

If it's introduced as a response to the call of the Father in the beginning, Gods word becomes the object of faith instead of God Himself. Gods word at that beginning stage is not ours yet to believe, claim, obey, nothing. Real important to respond correctly to establish the personal relationship with the continual surrender to Him.

Belief comes in as part of the process, but not to Gods word yet.

Pisteuo or the application of faith is a verb, defined as an act, BASED UPON A BELIEF, sustained by confidence.

BELIEF is believing that He will accept the surrendered life, not anything to do with Gods word yet. Not until we receive His Spirit.

Make sense?
 
cv5 said:
Wonderful work and very edifying. Bookmarked!

Just food for thought:
A specific act (the personal surrender to Him) based upon a belief (that he will accept the surrendered life)

In my view, the better terminology would be:
- a specific act to lambano/dechomi (RECEIVE) Christ as Lord and Savior (positive volition!)

-based upon a belief that He will accept-forgive the one who comes to Him, furthermore those who did truly receive Him are now willing to follow Him, and take part in the Great Commission as His ambassadors (positive volition!)

These ideas have their necessary counterpart in the OT of course.

My own view is that a word study of the term "surrender" is generally negative, where BAD things happen because of NEGATIVE volition.
Yes, the term "surrender" is common parlance used today, but in my view, wrongly applied to the POSITIVE volition expressed by receiving Christ. Think Zaccheus!

*************************************************************************************************

Lev 1:3-4
3If his offering is a burnt offering from the herd, he is to present an unblemished male. He must bring it to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting for its acceptance before the LORD. 4He is to lay his hand on the head of the burnt offering, so it can be accepted on his behalf to make atonement for him.

Lev 4:20-21
20He shall offer this bull just as he did the bull for the sin offering; in this way the priest will make atonement on their behalf, and they will be forgiven. 21Then he is to take the bull outside the camp and burn it, just as he burned the first bull. It is the sin offering for the assembly.
Click to expand...
Yielding to God: positive volition!

[Rom 6:13, 16, 19 KJV] 13 Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God. ... 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? ... 19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
 
studier said:
Yet it is also part of pisteuo and must be included in the definition. The problem is that believing information is made to be the main and even the only focus of what pisteuo means. But this problem is not resolved by pushing the pendulum to the other extreme and rejecting that becoming convinced of and believing information is not part of pisteuo.
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@Watchman22 agrees.....

https://christianchat.com/threads/can-we-really-exercise-free-will.218061/post-5659940

So this is how rom. 10:17 should read, in relation to God and His word.
"So then Faith ( conviction and reliance upon God) comes ( added by the translators) by hearing, (a thing heard) a hearing (a thing heard) by the word (utterances, narration, and instruction) of God . (the supreme deity.)
 
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cv5 said:
Wonderful work and very edifying. Bookmarked!

Just food for thought:
A specific act (the personal surrender to Him) based upon a belief (that he will accept the surrendered life)

In my view, the better terminology would be:
- a specific act to lambano/dechomi (RECEIVE) Christ as Lord and Savior (positive volition!)

-based upon a belief that He will accept-forgive the one who comes to Him, furthermore those who did truly receive Him are now willing to follow Him, and take part in the Great Commission as His ambassadors (positive volition!)

These ideas have their necessary counterpart in the OT of course.

My own view is that a word study of the term "surrender" is generally negative, where BAD things happen because of NEGATIVE volition.
Yes, the term "surrender" is common parlance used today, but in my view, wrongly applied to the POSITIVE volition expressed by receiving Christ. Think Zaccheus!

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Lev 1:3-4
3If his offering is a burnt offering from the herd, he is to present an unblemished male. He must bring it to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting for its acceptance before the LORD. 4He is to lay his hand on the head of the burnt offering, so it can be accepted on his behalf to make atonement for him.

Lev 4:20-21
20He shall offer this bull just as he did the bull for the sin offering; in this way the priest will make atonement on their behalf, and they will be forgiven. 21Then he is to take the bull outside the camp and burn it, just as he burned the first bull. It is the sin offering for the assembly.
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The word surrender comes from the Vines Greek dictionary. "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. "

How i became captive by this term was when I started to "turn my life and will over to Him", every day and every night, all day long if necessary. I then was introduced to a gifted teacher who started the journey of understanding pisteuo, and hence is a part of the information in the rediscovering pisteuo OP. He also validated the things that began to happen. The spiritual awakening, given the Holy spirit, the mind of Christ.



Because Gods word mistakenly becomes the object of faith early in the salvation process, the church world mistakenly thinks we receive " lambano" Him, instead of the correct understanding, He accepts us or our faith, or surrendered life.

I'm glad we agree on some important pieces to a correct understanding.

Do you turn your life over to Him daily, and live a life inspired by the turning of your life over c to Him?
 
cv5 said:
Yielding to God: positive volition!

[Rom 6:13, 16, 19 KJV] 13 Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God. ... 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? ... 19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
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Yield is the word my instructors replacement uses. It just leaves room to internet what we Yielding over to Him. Is it our life, or just our sin, our problems , everything but our life and will.
 
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