Rediscovering pisteuo.

[Watchman22]

We've looked at the A,B,Cs of Faith and faithing. The views at least support that their are some following.

This thread will give important information about how saving faith and faithing has been lost to time.

This is about rediscovering NT pisteuo. We don't need to discover any new truths, we need to rediscover the old truths.

It's been apoximately 500 years since William Tindale realized he couldn't translate the most important word in the Greek texts into the English language.

What is the most important word in the NT?
It's the Greek word "pisteuo."
I'm aware of the word "Grace", but Grace avails nothing if pisteuo isn't fulfilled correctly.

Why couldn't Tindale correctly translate "pisteuo" into the English language?

It's because the English language has no word to translate pisteuo. The English language has no corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" like the Greek does.

What is the Greek word pisteuo?

"Pisteuo" is the corresponding verb to the noun "pistis". The Greek word "pistis" is where we get our English word "Faith".

Where is the corresponding verb to the noun "Faith" in the English language?

There is none! The words the English language should have had for Tindale and the other translators are "faithe", "faither", and "faithing". But those words are not in the English language and weren't available for Tindale and the others translators.

So what did William Tindale do?

Tindale had to make a choice, stop his translation into the English language, or choose a different word. He decided to use the words "believe", "believer", and "believing", 248 times.
Gods word specifically warns against anyone adding or subtracting from the primary texts. Even if done unintentionally, in my opinion he has laid the foundation for the wide path Jesus warns us about. Here we are, 500 years later, and most called out ones are standing on the mistranslated words "believe", "believer", and "believing". Thinking, if i simply "believe " in what Jesus said, did, and promised, I will immediately receive the Grace deposit or Holy Spirit. That's not the correct response to the call of the Father required to start, maintain, and complete the salvation journey here on earth.

Here are some facts about the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing.
1) These words are not in the Greek language. Our teachers, churches, Bible colleges, and internet claim that if i look up the word "believe" in the Greek, it means "pisteuo". Pisteuo was mistranslated into the English, and then stamped back out onto the Greek. The Greek does not acknowledge a state of being where one is only " believing" in something. In the Greek, we are either moving towards something, "pisteuo", or the reverse action, moving away from something, "Apisteuo". No neutral or middle ground in the Greek

2) The mistranslated words believe, believing, and believer change the "object of faith" from a one on one personal relationship with God, a real living person, to what He did, said, and promised. Gods word cannot be the object of faith, it must be the living person.

3) Pisteuo is a verb, an action word that encompasses 3 parts. A specific act (the personal surrender to Him) based upon a belief (that he will accept the surrendered life) sustained by confidence (by making all the 100s of daily decisions supporting the fact our lives are not ours anymore, but His now.) "Believing " is only one of the 3, taken on its own is error.

4) Believe, believer, and believing are corresponding verbs to the noun "belief", not the noun "faith".

5) The definition of "believe " is "an opinion held in good faith without the necessary reference to its proof."

6) The Strongs gives the disclaimer "pisteuo means not just to believe. The Vines definition of pisteuo, "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. " This is not a one time surrender, it's surrendering every day, all day if necessary, making a better one each day. This is the perfecting process. Saints are not people who are perfect, Saints are candidates for perfection. God is not looking a perfect surrendered life, simply a genuine one.

7) God sees us from A to Z, "A" being what He wants first. (And that's someone who will continuously surrender their lives to Him, and live a life that supports that surrender. )
We see God from Z to A, "Z" being what we want first. ( And that's His Grace deposit and His promises. )

Salvation is by Grace "through faith," (faithing) through a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

Jay

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

In the Greek, we are either moving towards something, "pisteuo", or the reverse action, moving away from something, "Apisteuo"

The word believe adequately conveys the same idea when combined with the preposition into (eis), indicating moving out of something into something else.

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that you believe (πιστεύω, pisteuo) into (eis) him whom he hath sent. John 6:29​

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Gods word cannot be the object of faith, it must be the living person.

The living person is God's word, and vice versa

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

5) The definition of "believe " is "an opinion held in good faith without the necessary reference to its proof."

Sounds like faith

Now faith (πίστις pistis) is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1​

 

[Watchman22]

Sounds like faith

Now faith (πίστις pistis) is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1​

May God bless you on your path.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

6) The Strongs gives the disclaimer "pisteuo means not just to believe.

Believe doesn't just mean to believe. In other words, we can believe with the mind, and we can believe with the heart. Two separate things. This is clearly shown in Paul's famous verse below. Notice again, believing with the heart is moving out of unrighteousness into righteousness

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe (πιστεύω, pisteuo) in (ἔν, en) thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth (πιστεύω pisteuo) into (εἰς eis) righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made into salvation. Romans 10:9-10​

 

[Watchman22]

May God bless you on your path.

"Again," I should've said.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

7) God sees us from A to Z, "A" being what He wants first. (And that's someone who will continuously surrender their lives to Him, and live a life that supports that surrender. )

Surrender can be expressed in other ways. Like this:

Do not present your members as tools of unrighteousness to sin. But present yourselves to God as one living from out of the dead, and your members as tools of righteousness to God. Romans 6:13​

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

7) God sees us from A to Z, "A" being what He wants first. (And that's someone who will continuously surrender their lives to Him, and live a life that supports that surrender. )

Do you consider yourself dead to this world and sin? If you're dead, what are you surrendering to?

 

[Watchman22]

Believe doesn't just mean to believe. In other words, we can believe with the mind, and we can believe with the heart. Two separate things. This is clearly shown in Paul's famous verse below. Notice again, believing with the heart is moving out of unrighteousness into righteousness

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe (πιστεύω, pisteuo) in (ἔν, en) thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth (πιστεύω pisteuo) into (εἰς eis) righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made into salvation. Romans 10:9-10​

Please reread the Op, there's no such thing as "believing " in the Greek.

Show me something in the Op that's not correct "with facts". The only thing that will give us a better understanding is better fact, not your opinion. Facts only please.

Jay

 

[Watchman22]

Surrender can be expressed in other ways. Like this:

Do not present your members as tools of unrighteousness to sin. But present yourselves to God as one living from out of the dead, and your members as tools of righteousness to God. Romans 6:13​

Theres our way, and there's Gods way. I'm presenting Gods way. And unless someone can show me where my facts are wrong, that stands as the truth.

Jay

 

[Watchman22]

Do you consider yourself dead to this world and sin? If you're dead, what are you surrendering to?

Do you consider yourself dead to this world and sin? If you're dead, what are you surrendering to?

Any other path that's different than the one I'm presenting is known as "skirting the altar. "
Jay

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Please reread the Op, there's no such thing as "believing " in the Greek.

How is believing with the heart into righteousness different than pisteouing with the heart into righteousness?

 

[Watchman22]

How is believing with the heart into righteousness different than pisteouing with the heart into righteousness?

The answers are all in the Op. If the Op doesn't answer your questions, give it time. You have alot of information you didn't have a few days ago. Your fight isn't with me, it's with the truth.

Jay

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The answers are all in the Op. If the Op doesn't answer your questions, give it time. You have alot of information you didn't have a few days ago. Your fight isn't with me, it's with the truth.

Jay

Maybe you're being presumptuous

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Any other path that's different than the one I'm presenting is known as "skirting the altar. "
Jay

Any other path that's not rooted in scripture is known as going beyond what is written.

 

[Watchman22]

Maybe you're being presumptuous

Maybe, I know something i can't use to persuade you.

If what I've freely given you isn't enough, ask God for understanding.

 

[Deuteronomy]

What is the most important word in the NT? It's the Greek word "pisteuo." I'm aware of the word "Grace", but Grace avails nothing if pisteuo isn't fulfilled correctly.

Hello Jay, I agree with most of what you said in the OP, though I do have a few questions about some of it. For instance, while I think that I understand why you believe that "pisteuo" is the most important word in the Bible, I wish that you'd elaborate on that a bit by quickly explaining why a different word, like the Object of our faith, is not more important, or certain other words, like "agape" (or even "pistis"), for instance, are not

Also, it seems to me that the sentiment above (see the words that I highlighted in bold), which I assume is at the heart of what you believe about all of this, is something that should be restated and/or more carefully explained by you because of the obvious problems associated with saying what you did (preborn babies and those who die as infants/toddlers, who are not capable of pisteuo, come quickly to mind, for instance).

...most called out ones are standing on the mistranslated words "believe", "believer", and "believing". Thinking, if i simply "believe " in what Jesus said, did, and promised, I will immediately receive the Grace deposit or Holy Spirit. That's not the correct response to the call of the Father required to start, maintain, and complete the salvation journey here on earth.

I have a couple of questions for you about the above. First, by "called out ones" I assume that you are referring to the saints, yes And second, those who are defined properly as "saints" are, by definition, already "saved", yes, so it seems to me that they would be wise to continue with whatever belief helped to get them to that point (of coming to saving faith and receiving eternal life from the Lord Jesus).

As a secondary thought (or question), I'm also wondering why you believe that "most" saints stand not only on these mistranslated words, but also on the particular understanding of those words that you've assigned to them here, as well How do you know that/what evidence led you to believe that that is true Thanks

In the Greek, we are either moving towards something, "pisteuo", or the reverse action, moving away from something, "Apisteuo". No neutral or middle ground in the Greek.

Is there no sense of a present/ongoing reality allowed for by Greek grammar then, only something in the future that we are "moving towards" instead I think that I must be misunderstanding you here, so please explain what you mean (or perhaps, what I'm missing?).

Also, if this is true, and as a "for instance" then, what are we to make of verses that say things like this one does?

John 5​

24 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and ~believes Him~ who sent Me, ~has~ eternal life, and ~does not~ come into judgment, but ~has passed~ out of death into life. ​

Doesn't v24 indicate that we receive "eternal life" from God at the very moment that we both "hear" and "believe" Him

2) The mistranslated words believe, believing, and believer change the "object of faith" from a one on one personal relationship with God, a real living person, to what He did, said, and promised. Gods word cannot be the object of faith, it must be the living person.

I don't believe that I've ever heard someone specify that the object of their faith is God's "word", ~alone~ (IOW, God's word APART from Him, the Divine Author of those words), because, in my experience anyway, whenever someone has said that they believe and trust in God's word, what they really mean is that they believe and trust in Him!!

3) Pisteuo is a verb, an action word that encompasses 3 parts. A specific act (the personal surrender to Him) based upon a belief (that he will accept the surrendered life) sustained by confidence (by making all the 100s of daily decisions supporting the fact our lives are not ours anymore, but His now.) "Believing " is only one of the 3, taken on its own is error.
4) Believe, believer, and believing are corresponding verbs to the noun "belief", not the noun "faith".
5) The definition of "believe " is "an opinion held in good faith without the necessary reference to its proof."
6) The Strongs gives the disclaimer "pisteuo means not just to believe. The Vines definition of pisteuo, "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. " This is not a one time surrender, it's surrendering every day, all day if necessary, making a better one each day. This is the perfecting process. Saints are not people who are perfect, Saints are candidates for perfection. God is not looking a perfect surrendered life, simply a genuine one.

While I agree with what you are saying (or I think that I do anyway), there is far more to it than simply gaining a proper, Biblical understanding the definition of "pisteuo", is there not For instance,

James 2​

19 You believe/pisteuo that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe/pisteuo, and shudder. ​

7) God sees us from A to Z, "A" being what He wants first. (And that's someone who will continuously surrender their lives to Him, and live a life that supports that surrender. ) We see God from Z to A, "Z" being what we want first. ( And that's His Grace deposit and His promises. )

That's true, but how can anyone commence with living the Christian life, the life of faith/faithing 1. before coming to know Him and/or 2. prior to being redeemed, forgiven, justified, saved and indwelt by Him

Also, you 'seem' to believe that our salvation, initial and progressive sanctification, and even our eventual glorification is either largely or wholly dependent upon us, ~apart~ from the changes wrought in us by God (past, present and ongoing), as well from the power and continual help & guidance of the Holy Spirit, but that is not what the Scriptures teach us, is it (e.g. Ezekiel 36:25-27; 2 Corinthinans 5:17; Ephesians 2:8-10; Philippians 1:6; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; Jude 24-25).

Again, I am, no doubt, misunderstanding you here, so please help me understand what you are actually saying (or what I am missing about all of this).

Salvation is by Grace "through faith," (faithing) through a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

Agreed (however, for the sake of clarity, Ephesians 2:8-9 tells us that we are saved by grace through "pistis", not "pisteuo", apart from anything that "we" do, and also that these three, grace, faith and our salvation, in general, are all "gifts" to us from God).

Well, that went on WAY longer than I thought that it would Sorry about that. I know that it may not seem like it, but I think that we are on the same page about most of your OP (I just felt that I needed clarity from you about some of it to be sure, so thank you ahead of time for that ).

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy (David)
p.s. - I think that the Reformers have a LOT of important things to say about "faith" (some of which I'll add to this thread in my next post). For now, here are some of the words of Calvin (and Luther too), who both said the very same things about saving faith/sola fide.

"We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone"
.​

 

[Watchman22]

Hello Jay, I agree with most of what you said in the OP, though I do have a few questions about some of it. For instance, while I think that I understand why you believe that "pisteuo" is the most important word in the Bible, I wish that you'd elaborate on that a bit by quickly explaining why a different word, like the Object of our faith, is not more important, or certain other words, like "agape" (or even "pistis"), for instance, are not

Also, it seems to me that the sentiment above (see the words that I highlighted in bold), which I assume is at the heart of what you believe about all of this, is something that should be restated and/or more carefully explained by you because of the obvious problems associated with saying what you did (preborn babies and those who die as infants/toddlers, who are not capable of pisteuo, come quickly to mind, for instance).


I have a couple of questions for you about the above. First, by "called out ones" I assume that you are referring to the saints, yes And second, those who are defined properly as "saints" are, by definition, already "saved", yes, so it seems to me that they would be wise to continue with whatever belief helped to get them to that point (of coming to saving faith and receiving eternal life from the Lord Jesus).

As a secondary thought (or question), I'm also wondering why you believe that "most" saints stand not only on these mistranslated words, but also on the particular understanding of those words that you've assigned to them here, as well How do you know that/what evidence led you to believe that that is true Thanks


Is there no sense of a present/ongoing reality allowed for by Greek grammar then, only something in the future that we are "moving towards" instead I think that I must be misunderstanding you here, so please explain what you mean (or perhaps, what I'm missing?).

Also, if this is true, and as a "for instance" then, what are we to make of verses that say things like this one does?

John 5​

24 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and ~believes Him~ who sent Me, ~has~ eternal life, and ~does not~ come into judgment, but ~has passed~ out of death into life. ​

Doesn't v24 indicate that we receive "eternal life" from God at the very moment that we both "hear" and "believe" Him


I don't believe that I've ever heard someone specify that the object of their faith is God's "word", ~alone~ (IOW, God's word APART from Him, the Divine Author of those words), because, in my experience anyway, whenever someone has said that they believe and trust in God's word, what they really mean is that they believe and trust in Him!!


While I agree with what you are saying (or I think that I do anyway), there is far more to it than simply gaining a proper, Biblical understanding the definition of "pisteuo", is there not For instance,

James 2​

19 You believe/pisteuo that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe/pisteuo, and shudder. ​

That's true, but how can anyone commence with living the Christian life, the life of faith/faithing 1. before coming to know Him and/or 2. prior to being redeemed, forgiven, justified, saved and indwelt by Him

Also, you 'seem' to believe that our salvation, initial and progressive sanctification, and even our eventual glorification is either largely or wholly dependent upon us, ~apart~ from the changes wrought in us by God (past, present and ongoing), as well from the power and continual help & guidance of the Holy Spirit, but that is not what the Scriptures teach us, is it (e.g. Ezekiel 36:25-27; 2 Corinthinans 5:17; Ephesians 2:8-10; Philippians 1:6; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; Jude 24-25).

Again, I am, no doubt, misunderstanding you here, so please help me understand what you are actually saying (or what I am missing about all of this).


Agreed (however, for the sake of clarity, Ephesians 2:8-9 tells us that we are saved by grace through "pistis", not "pisteuo", apart from anything that "we" do, and also that these three, grace, faith and our salvation, in general, are all "gifts" to us from God).

Well, that went on WAY longer than I thought that it would Sorry about that. I know that it may not seem like it, but I think that we are on the same page about most of your OP (I just felt that I needed clarity from you about some of it to be sure, so thank you ahead of time for that ).

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy (David)
p.s. - I think that the Reformers have a LOT of important things to say about "faith" (some of which I'll add to this thread in my next post). For now, here are some of the words of Calvin (and Luther too), who both said the very same things about saving faith/sola fide.

"We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies is never alone"
.​

[/QUOT

Hey Deuteronomy,
Thanks for the reply. I was starting to think there was only 2 people in this forum, lol.

I'll be happy to reply to all your questions.
Thanks for taking the time to embrace this topic.

Look for my reply in the am tomorrow.

Jay

 

[Deuteronomy]

ESSENTIAL ELEMENTS OF SAVING FAITH​

What are the constituent elements of saving faith? The Protestant Reformers recognized that biblical faith has three essential aspects: notitia, assensus, and fiducia.

Notitia refers to the content of faith, the things we believe. There are certain things we are required to believe about Christ, namely, that He is the Son of God, that He is our Savior, that He has provided an atonement, and so on.

Assensus is the conviction that the content of our faith is true. One can know about the Christian faith and yet believe that it is not true. We might have a doubt or two mixed with our faith, but there has to be a certain level of intellectual affirmation and conviction if we are to be saved. Before anyone can really trust in Jesus Christ, he has to believe that Christ indeed is the Savior, that He is who He claimed to be. Genuine faith says that the content, the notitia, is true.

Fiducia refers to personal trust and reliance. Knowing and believing the content of the Christian faith is not enough, for even demons can do that (James 2:19). Faith is effectual only if one personally trusts in Christ alone for salvation. It is one thing to give an intellectual assent to a proposition but quite another to place personal trust in it. We can say that we believe in justification by faith alone and yet still think that we are going to get to heaven by our achievements, our works, or our striving. It is easy to get the doctrine of justification by faith into our heads, but it is hard to get it into the bloodstream such that we cling to Christ alone for salvation.

There is another element to fiducia besides trust, and that is affection. An unregenerate person will never come to Jesus, because he does not want Jesus. In his mind and heart, he is fundamentally at enmity with the things of God. As long as someone is hostile to Christ, he has no affection for Him. Satan is a case in point. Satan knows the truth, but he hates the truth. He is utterly disinclined to worship God because he has no love for God. We are like that by nature. We are dead in our sin. We walk according to the powers of this world and indulge the lusts of the flesh. Until the Holy Spirit changes us, we have hearts of stone. An unregenerate heart is without affection for Christ; it is both lifeless and loveless. The Holy Spirit changes the disposition of our hearts so that we see the sweetness of Christ and embrace Him. None of us loves Christ perfectly, but we cannot love Him at all unless the Holy Spirit changes the heart of stone and makes it a heart of flesh. ~Sproul, R. C. (2014). Everyone’s a Theologian: An Introduction to Systematic Theology (pp. 238–239). Reformation Trust.

~Deuteronomy