Loss of salvation???
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“ ye shall not die , it’s just that God knows when you eat it you will become as gods Knowing good and evil”
indeed the desire to be self goverened created by the temptation placed before them self governance led us here because we keep rejecting Gods word hats telling us how to live since Adam.
“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.”
Genesis 6:5-6 KJV
“And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.”
Genesis 11:4 KJV
The desire to self govern and jidge our own selves is what keeps man from Gods judgements being true and correct which is man’s true desing to fellowship with God and walk with him learning and growing like the decoupled did
I’ve always imagined Adam and eves life would have been like thiers God teaching then about life and faith and the kingdom he made then to be a part of to rule the earth in all those blessings and gifts he gave us in the beginning
If they had just stuck to the perception and understanding God have them about things rether than entertain alternative requiring them to disbelieve Gods word about the fruit and believe about her contrary word about the fruit
But we hear Gods ways and I understanding and then we still want to control who gets to determine food and evil humans are in a conundrum without Jesus and his spirit
indeed the desire to be self goverened created by the temptation placed before them self governance led us here because we keep rejecting Gods word hats telling us how to live since Adam.
“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.”
Genesis 6:5-6 KJV
“And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.”
Genesis 11:4 KJV
The desire to self govern and jidge our own selves is what keeps man from Gods judgements being true and correct which is man’s true desing to fellowship with God and walk with him learning and growing like the decoupled did
I’ve always imagined Adam and eves life would have been like thiers God teaching then about life and faith and the kingdom he made then to be a part of to rule the earth in all those blessings and gifts he gave us in the beginning
If they had just stuck to the perception and understanding God have them about things rether than entertain alternative requiring them to disbelieve Gods word about the fruit and believe about her contrary word about the fruit
But we hear Gods ways and I understanding and then we still want to control who gets to determine food and evil humans are in a conundrum without Jesus and his spirit
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Please show me where I called you evil or I said Satan speaks the truth or I said God is evil. I don't accept your opinion, I want proof.
I think the problem is you have an erroneous idea of how people come to know and understand.
Knowledge and understanding is not innate. One must first hear the truth , one must then believe and one must apply that truth for understanding to come. Knowledge must be built upon knowledge and understanding develops (usually) over time as the truth of what one believes proves itself.
Adam can be judged for doing evil because the Lord had told him what was right. Adam knew he was not meant to eat from the tree but didn't believe the Lord ergo the knowledge of right was not applied and Adam had to come to understanding the hard way by experiencing evil directly. It's not like evil didn't exist at the time of Adam's creation, it simply wasn't allowed into the garden until God allowed it.
If anyone is being falsely represented here it is you accusing me of things I have never said. Your constant misunderstanding and misapplication of my meaning is sad to say the least.
I do not think man can be like God by doing evil so your question regarding Adam changing his wife's name is nonsensical to me. I have no idea what your point is.
Until such time as you can actually hear what I am saying and present your own ideas lucidly, I see no point in continuing the discussion.
Have a nice day.
I think the problem is you have an erroneous idea of how people come to know and understand.
Knowledge and understanding is not innate. One must first hear the truth , one must then believe and one must apply that truth for understanding to come. Knowledge must be built upon knowledge and understanding develops (usually) over time as the truth of what one believes proves itself.
Adam can be judged for doing evil because the Lord had told him what was right. Adam knew he was not meant to eat from the tree but didn't believe the Lord ergo the knowledge of right was not applied and Adam had to come to understanding the hard way by experiencing evil directly. It's not like evil didn't exist at the time of Adam's creation, it simply wasn't allowed into the garden until God allowed it.
If anyone is being falsely represented here it is you accusing me of things I have never said. Your constant misunderstanding and misapplication of my meaning is sad to say the least.
I do not think man can be like God by doing evil so your question regarding Adam changing his wife's name is nonsensical to me. I have no idea what your point is.
Until such time as you can actually hear what I am saying and present your own ideas lucidly, I see no point in continuing the discussion.
Have a nice day.
It was @Genez who called me evil, Satan truthful and God evil, because he could not answer my questions.
but you have not answered them either.
this is impossible to reconcile with your narrative of Adam and Woman having zero concept of good or evil.
if they cannot discern between right and wrong, they cannot discern between truth and lies, and they cannot "learn" because they have no basis for knowledge whatsoever.
contrary to what you have been taught and what you and Genez now continue to teach, Satan is a liar.
Adam and his wife did not become like God by sinning.
the conjunctive wah does not simply mean "and"
Adam changed his wife's name, demonstrating faith in the proto-Evangelion, but Adam had sin. Therefore Adam knew good.
But Adam had with absolutely full knowledge and understanding chosen to do evil - he was not deceived. he knew what he was doing by eating the fruit was wrong. he knew the difference between right and wrong before he ate, otherwise Timothy is contradicted and you have broken the scripture setting it against itself and making Christ a liar.
so Adam, knowing the difference between good and evil, chose evil - listening to the voice of his wife, but not deceived by his wife. she also knew she had done evil, and when she spoke to him, it wasn't an attempt to deceive him.
So Adam knows good. he knows God. he walks with God, regularly.
And Adam now is evil.
And when Adam believes God, Who gave them the promise of the gospel, and Adam acts on that faith changing his wife's name to Eve, Adam now knows good having come from evil.
Now Adam is like God - knowing what was meant for evil having been turned into good by the grace of God. Adam has heard and believed the gospel, and is saved: God shed th blood of a lamb and covered him with it.
But Adam must not then eat the tree of life.
Why?
Maybe you can be so good as to answer that.
Or maybe you will just despise knowledge, slander me and blaspheme God.
Let's see.
if they cannot discern between right and wrong, they cannot discern between truth and lies, and they cannot "learn" because they have no basis for knowledge whatsoever.
contrary to what you have been taught and what you and Genez now continue to teach, Satan is a liar.
Adam and his wife did not become like God by sinning.
the conjunctive wah does not simply mean "and"
Adam changed his wife's name, demonstrating faith in the proto-Evangelion, but Adam had sin. Therefore Adam knew good.
But Adam had with absolutely full knowledge and understanding chosen to do evil - he was not deceived. he knew what he was doing by eating the fruit was wrong. he knew the difference between right and wrong before he ate, otherwise Timothy is contradicted and you have broken the scripture setting it against itself and making Christ a liar.
so Adam, knowing the difference between good and evil, chose evil - listening to the voice of his wife, but not deceived by his wife. she also knew she had done evil, and when she spoke to him, it wasn't an attempt to deceive him.
So Adam knows good. he knows God. he walks with God, regularly.
And Adam now is evil.
And when Adam believes God, Who gave them the promise of the gospel, and Adam acts on that faith changing his wife's name to Eve, Adam now knows good having come from evil.
Now Adam is like God - knowing what was meant for evil having been turned into good by the grace of God. Adam has heard and believed the gospel, and is saved: God shed th blood of a lamb and covered him with it.
But Adam must not then eat the tree of life.
Why?
Maybe you can be so good as to answer that.
Or maybe you will just despise knowledge, slander me and blaspheme God.
Let's see.
It is nonsensical to you because your understanding of Genesis 3 - what you have been taught about it - is nonsense.
what you have been taught cannot even conceive of asking why Adam changed his wife's name, or why it is significant that he did.
what you have been taught is that Satan is correct, that Adam became like God by committing sin - eating the fruit of death, that being like God only means knowing the difference between right and wrong, and that God created them both as complete idiots with no basis for understanding right or wrong, truth or lie, and intended them to remain forever ignorant and incapable of making informed choices.
You think it's nonsense because you have never stopped to consider whether this makes any sense at all.
You became immediately offended by my for cong you to think about it, and you haven't made any serious attempt at sorting out how to answer the basic questions yet.
It's not nonsense.
It's in fact about salvation and whether it can be lost or not.
what you have been taught cannot even conceive of asking why Adam changed his wife's name, or why it is significant that he did.
what you have been taught is that Satan is correct, that Adam became like God by committing sin - eating the fruit of death, that being like God only means knowing the difference between right and wrong, and that God created them both as complete idiots with no basis for understanding right or wrong, truth or lie, and intended them to remain forever ignorant and incapable of making informed choices.
You think it's nonsense because you have never stopped to consider whether this makes any sense at all.
You became immediately offended by my for cong you to think about it, and you haven't made any serious attempt at sorting out how to answer the basic questions yet.
It's not nonsense.
It's in fact about salvation and whether it can be lost or not.
Start asking questions.
Why did Adam change Woman's name to Eve?
Why does God respond by shedding innocent blood and clothing them both?
Why does God only say about Adam, not Woman, he has become like one of us?
Which one of "us"?
Who is "us"?
Satan is a murderer and a liar. Nothing he told Woman was true. what were his motivations for each lie? what is he trying to convince Woman of, and why?
Why does God prevent them from the tree of Life? Is God's purpose good or evil? Is He saving / protecting them or cursing / damming them?
Why did Adam change Woman's name to Eve?
Why does God respond by shedding innocent blood and clothing them both?
Why does God only say about Adam, not Woman, he has become like one of us?
Which one of "us"?
Who is "us"?
Satan is a murderer and a liar. Nothing he told Woman was true. what were his motivations for each lie? what is he trying to convince Woman of, and why?
Why does God prevent them from the tree of Life? Is God's purpose good or evil? Is He saving / protecting them or cursing / damming them?
You are asking them to understand the difference, it is not necessary. They only need the right information to act right.
If you are approaching your Christian walk in the way you are demanding of Adam and Eve, you will not mature. You will never prove the word of God is true. First you must have the right information, then you must believe it to be true, whether you understand it's implications or consequences is irrelevant. First comes knowledge, then after it is applied, comes understanding.
Two thirds of the angels have never experienced evil in the way Adam knew evil after eating the fruit but they still understand evil is bad.
Like I said, it's not like evil didn't exist at all in creation but Adam fell at his very first encounter with it.
If you are approaching your Christian walk in the way you are demanding of Adam and Eve, you will not mature. You will never prove the word of God is true. First you must have the right information, then you must believe it to be true, whether you understand it's implications or consequences is irrelevant. First comes knowledge, then after it is applied, comes understanding.
Two thirds of the angels have never experienced evil in the way Adam knew evil after eating the fruit but they still understand evil is bad.
Like I said, it's not like evil didn't exist at all in creation but Adam fell at his very first encounter with it.
You don't know what I have been taught and you have consistently misunderstood what I have said so why should I take your word for it?
What does any of that have to do with how one learns?
They didn't become something other than human once they sinned. We all still have to learn the same way whether sinner or not. Christ had to learn and He did it the same way we learn.
This conversation is just going off into the vacuum of space. While your questions are all good, they have no relevance to the topic. If you can provide some relevance as to how the answers alter the way we learn then maybe you should provide some information rather than simply making denigrating remarks about my knowledge or lack of it.
What does any of that have to do with how one learns?
They didn't become something other than human once they sinned. We all still have to learn the same way whether sinner or not. Christ had to learn and He did it the same way we learn.
This conversation is just going off into the vacuum of space. While your questions are all good, they have no relevance to the topic. If you can provide some relevance as to how the answers alter the way we learn then maybe you should provide some information rather than simply making denigrating remarks about my knowledge or lack of it.
Do you think God created them as sinners who would struggle with good and evil ? Or they caused it when they broke the commandment ?
I think the knowledge of good and evil made us that way. God made us to fellowship with him and not worry about what good and evil even is but to only care about what he said about whatever given subject , but it seems as if repeatedly we reject what he said through the same process of temptation eve faced
I think the knowledge of good and evil made us that way. God made us to fellowship with him and not worry about what good and evil even is but to only care about what he said about whatever given subject , but it seems as if repeatedly we reject what he said through the same process of temptation eve faced
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this isn't about how they learned or how we learn. it's about salvation.
but if they had no concept if right or wrong, and we do, then they didn't apprehend in the same way we do, and none of your philosophies about the acquisition of knowledge are relevant to them.
it's about salvation.
God clothed them, and He did so directly in response to Adam changing his wife's name, and directly in conjunction with declaring Adam - not mankind, not both of them, but specifically Adam - having become like "one of us"
because He says this only of Adam, it is not the result of having eaten of the fruit of the tree of dying-you-shall-die, because both ate, but only one is declared.
therefore Genesis 3:22 is not about having eaten the fruit, despite Genesis 3:5. Satan spoke 3:5 and he is a liar and a murderer and a thief.
Genesis 3:22 is about Genesis 3:20-21
but if they had no concept if right or wrong, and we do, then they didn't apprehend in the same way we do, and none of your philosophies about the acquisition of knowledge are relevant to them.
it's about salvation.
God clothed them, and He did so directly in response to Adam changing his wife's name, and directly in conjunction with declaring Adam - not mankind, not both of them, but specifically Adam - having become like "one of us"
because He says this only of Adam, it is not the result of having eaten of the fruit of the tree of dying-you-shall-die, because both ate, but only one is declared.
therefore Genesis 3:22 is not about having eaten the fruit, despite Genesis 3:5. Satan spoke 3:5 and he is a liar and a murderer and a thief.
Genesis 3:22 is about Genesis 3:20-21
That's correct. However, if they had no concept of right or wrong, then God could not have told Adam what He did in Genesis 2:17. How could God give a warning to someone who could not distinguish between obeying a command and disobeying a command?
They both had consciences at the time they were created, otherwise how could they have hidden from God not having a guilty conscience? All humans have a conscience (unlike animals), and conscience tells all humans what is right and what it wrong.
They both had consciences at the time they were created, otherwise how could they have hidden from God not having a guilty conscience? All humans have a conscience (unlike animals), and conscience tells all humans what is right and what it wrong.
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