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I appreciate your kind words dud, but don't let this stuff get to you. Keep in mind there are "lurkers" that read this stuff and not to mention the fact that God may even touch staunch pre-tribbers to come to their senses. I personally know some that changed their position because ultimately His...

And speaking of "correlation!" I don't know if you read in one of my very first post about what I said regarding 2 Thessalonians 1:6,7. "For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, vs7, and give "rest/relief" to you who are afflicted and to us as well...

Really absolutely, give me some examples of us post tribbers that stumble over simple plain concepts? :eek: IN GOD THE SON, bluto

I would think that the "referent" can easily be deduced by reading the message. In other words, you find "FEWER" people who are Christians or even may call themselves Christians not getting involved in proclaiming the Gospel message. And why you may ask? Because they are more concerned with the...

Do you know what you just did when you made this statement? "No, I believe the CONTEXT of 1Cor15:51-54 [2Cor5:3-4] pertains SOLELY to "the Church which is His body" (of whom "the Rapture" SOLELY pertains--" I agree with what you said BUT you then added "(of whom "the Rapture" SOLELY pertains."...

Well if you want to use that line of reasoning where "then the end" where it "could" mean another item 1000 years from THAT etc. Then what about 1 Corinthians 15:52 where it says, "AT THE LAST TRUMPET?" Does that mean there will some more "last" trumpets a 1000 years later? Why is it you can't...

Your misunderstanding the verse tdw and the verse is not "superfluous." In fact, the sequence your talking about is explained at 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17. Paul is saying don't worry about those who are asleep/dead (vs13) because they will be first and then the rest of those who are alive (vs15)...

Well that's a great argument from you ahwatukee? You basically said the same thing to me as if your "brand" of study is better or should I say more right than ours because your "in the know?" :rolleys: Would you say the same thing to the following post-tribulation believers, including some early...

Ok, let me put what you said another way. How do you know that the verses that say, "Watch, Wait, Be ready, Long for His coming are tied specifically to the rapture? I can say that the verses apply to the second coming of Jesus. One of the verses I base this on is Hebrews 9:28, "so Christ also...

Hi and welcome to christian chat. I suggest you read some of the other post because I know some pre-tribbers disagree with you. In fact, I ask that very question, so who's right? :eek: IN GOD THE SON, bluto

So ahwatukee, you gave these verses, John 14:1-3, 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, 1 Thess 4:13-17 and 2 Thes 2:1. Not one of those verses proves the rapture of the church. Sure, they may use the word "gathering" but how do you know it has to be a gathering for the rapture? In other words, the gathering...

You said the following to me in your very first sentence. "The problem is that you are not recognizing the appearing of the Lord to gather His church vs. the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, as being two individual events, which is what they are. No, I contend it is one event called...

You forgot 1 John 2:18 which I quoted in my original post on this thread. I ask the question, "If there is a pretrib rapture then why does the Apostle John tell us that it is the last hour and "THE" singular antichrist is coming and even now there are many antichrist running around the...

No I don't mind, remember these are open forums. Now, since you don't use these verses to support the rapture, what verses do you use, enlighten me. Btw, did you read all that I posted? Can you show me where the rapture might be in the verses I posted? And did Jesus Christ Himself mention...

I want to add a little adendum where you said I should do a little study on this subject. Trust me, I've been a Christian over 55 years now and when I first became a Christian I was taught exactly what your advocating to me now, the rapture and agreed with it for about 30 years. Then I decided...

That's right, I said no "rapture," I did not say no second coming. Are you familar with Hebrews 9:28? "so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, SHALL APPEAR A SECOND TIME FOR SALVATION/DELIVERANCE WITHOUT REFERENCE TO SIN, TO THOSE WHO EARGERLY AWAIT HIM." So, can you...

Oh please, you just don't get it noose. You quoted Matthew 26:40 which is the trial of Jesus Christ who was accused of blasphemy. At vs40 the high priest is asking Jesus to swear two things. (1) are You the Christ/Messian and (2) are You the Son of God. At Luke 24:16 Jesus says, "Yes, I am."...

I have to ask you this noose, what planet are your from? I mean where do you come up with this stuff that is in direct contradiction of what Jesus said at Matthew 24. Who is teaching you this, and what church do you attend that agrees with what your saying? Actually, I'll bet you don't even...

You said this: "He had not yet spoken of anything related to our Rapture (in the air)." Well if that's the case, where did Jesus "EVER" speak about "our" (your word) rapture? Or to put it another way since the disciples specifically ask Him at Matthew 24:3, "what will be the sign of Your coming...

The following is what Greek Scholar A.T Robertson said about Matthew 24:3 and he says I think three times, "the end of the world." Verse 3 As he sat (κατημενου — kathēmenou). Genitive absolute. Picture of Jesus sitting on the Mount of Olives looking down on Jerusalem and the temple which he...