John 3 and Water Baptism in the Ministry of Jesus Christ

what baptism could it be other than water in acts 2:38? when its telling them to be baptized.

if its belief and belief. theres no need to mention baptism at all.

What's that saying. In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things charity.

What's that saying. In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things charity.

They that beleive are already saved. Those that don't believe remain under condemnation. But you got the order correct. People first believe, and then act.

I believe there are at least 4 baptisms spoken of in the NT:
...water baptism
...baptism with fire
...baptism with the Holy Spirit
...baptism by the Holy Spirit
That said, I believe the baptism spoken of in Acts 2:38 is water baptism. But it wasn't the only baptism that took place that day. I believe 2 others also took place. The first was the baptism with the Spirit. This was the falling of the Spirit upon the disciples in the form of cloves of fire. It was what was foretold in Joel 2:28 who quotes the passage in explanation of what was happening the day of Pentecost. It is what is spoken of by Jesus in Acts 1 as the power that would be endued on the disciples not many days hence, and is referred to as the promise of the Father.
In Matthew 3:11, John the Baptist says Jesus will baptize with the Holy Ghost and with fire. What happens to the disciples on Pentecost, and to many others throughout the book of Acts when the Spirit falls upon different groups is the baptism with the Spirit performed by Jesus and spoken of by John the Baptist in Matthew 3:11.
But there was another baptism that day, and that is the baptism of the Spirit that 3000 people that day experienced. The baptism of the Spirit is spoken of in 1 Corinthians 12:13 wherein the individual is placed into the body of Christ. This is what I believe is happening in Acts 2:37 as these individuals heard the preaching of Peter and were pricked in their hearts. This is the reason that they responded as they did. We can delve deeper into this if you like.
The last baptism is baptism with fire. You have heard the term trial by fire. These include the intense trials that God puts His children through to remove the dross from their lives.

Am glad to explore any of this in greater detail if you like.

But here's a question for you: do you believe that the disciples of Jesus were unsaved on the day of Pentecost before the cloves of fire rested upon them?

Belief happens a verse earlier. They heard, were pricked in the heart, and asked what someone in such an estate would do? This didn't occur because they didn't believe. It happened because they acted upon what they now believed.

In your examples, did the people looking at the serpent and walking around the city in response to God's word exemplify faith? Was it their obedience or their faith that led to the result. I can find where the Bible says we are saved through faith and that without faith it is impossible to please God. I can also find Jesus not performing miracles for lack of faith.

Can you show me in the scripture where it says anyone is saved through obedience? Or where people pleased God through obedience? Or where Jesus didn't perform miracles for lack of obedience?

The fact is, those who believed God would heal them by looking upon the serpent, looked upon it. It was their response due to their belief or faith that resulted in the healing. Likewise, those who believed that God would give victory through the instruction God gave were rewarded with victory by responding in faith to the word of God.

What if God had given different instructions in these examples? What if God had said to dig a hole in the sand to be cured of the snake bites? Would they not have been saved from death by doing so? Yes they would have. Why? Because they would have responded to the word of God in faith. The activity is not what saves. The belief that God will do as He says is.

This is what Ephesians 2:8-9 teaches. Salvation is by grace through faith. You conflate the outward activity to be cause of salvation, but God accounts the belief to be the means of salvation.

John 8:31
King James Bible
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

Faith unto itself has never been a panacea for the remission of sins.

James clearly states that faith by itself cannot save.

James 2:24
New International Version
You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

We may debate what needs to be obeyed but not the need to obey.

Would you not agree?

John 8:31
King James Bible
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

Faith unto itself has never been a panacea for the remission of sins.

James clearly states that faith by itself cannot save.

James 2:24
New International Version
You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

We may debate what needs to be obeyed but not the need to obey.

Would you not agree?

You are simply trying to confuse people by muddying up the water.

The tacit understanding of baptism is with water, just as it is with a bath or shower.

Unless something else is mentioned i.e. fire or spirit then water it is.

When David saw Bathsheba bathing it does not mention water but it certainly was not fire.

Your question is a clear red herring.

Their saved/unsaved status is moot. The cloves of fire are never mentioned as a moment or time for the remission of sins. Baptism is mentioned as that moment.

Regardless of "what they now believed" it was the act of repentance and baptism that was the moment of remission of sins.
Not the moment of belief.

Belief without repentance and baptism does not lead to the remission of sins.

Here is the verses:

Numbers 21:6-9
New American Standard Bible
The Bronze Serpent
6 Then the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people and they bit the people, so that many people of Israel died. 7 So the people came to Moses and said, “We have sinned, because we have spoken against the Lord and against you; intercede with the Lord, that He will remove the serpents from us.” And Moses interceded for the people. 8 Then the Lord said to Moses, “[a]Make a fiery serpent, and put it on a flag pole; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, and looks at it, will live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze serpent and put it on the flag pole; and it came about, that if a serpent bit someone, and he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived.

Where in these verses does the word "faith" appear?

They were healed at the moment that they did not when they believed.

Did they believe looking upon the bronze serpent would save them?
Do you believe Jesus being lifted up on the cross paying for your sins saves you?

Sins were remitted at the cross. That's when they were paid for. What Christ did for us was made known to us through the gospel. This hearing led to faith. Faith led to any action thereafter.
Had those people there that day not come to faith, they wouldn't have responded. There were probably multiple times more people there that day who didn't get saved.

The cloves of fire is what was promised in Joel 2:28 as well as by Jesus in Acts 1.

It did not matter what they believed about the bronze serpent it's what they did about the bronze serpent.

Again, it is not only what you believe but what you do with your belief.

God said belief without works is dead.

Remember?

Sins were paid for those who obey at the cross.

The remission of sins happens at baptism.

Col. 2:13-14 is the how.
Acts 2:38 is the when.

Your reasoning fights against these scriptures.

What is your point?

Are you implying that cloves of fire are needed for the remission of sins?