Loss of salvation???

[Just_A__Follower]

It was common knowledge.

Look at the two verses used...

Jesus answered,
“Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God
unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
Flesh gives birth to flesh,
but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
​

That is why Jesus used the term to speak of physical birth!

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and
that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6

How does anyone sneak in water baptism with that context?????​

.

Common knowledge that a woman’s water would break during birth. Sure. It’s also common knowledge today. But what it wasn’t then and isn’t today is a common idiom of natural birth. I’ve never heard someone say when I was born of water speaking of their natural birth. They would just say when I was born. And I wouldn’t think Jesus would have to explain to Nicodemus that for someone to enter the kingdom the must first exist. Pretty sure that would also be common knowledge. And again with stillborn babies. If a child dies before he/she is born, are we to say they can’t enter the kingdom because they were not born of water?No. That in itself would mean that one doesn’t have to be born from a woman. We exist on this earth way before any water breaks.

 

[HeIsHere]

Common knowledge that a woman’s water would break during birth. Sure. It’s also common knowledge today. But what it wasn’t then and isn’t today is a common idiom of natural birth. I’ve never heard someone say when I was born of water speaking of their natural birth. They would just say when I was born. And I wouldn’t think Jesus would have to explain to Nicodemus that for someone to enter the kingdom the must first exist. Pretty sure that would also be common knowledge. And again with stillborn babies. If a child dies before he/she is born, are we to say they can’t enter the kingdom because they were not born of water?No. That in itself would mean that one doesn’t have to be born from a woman. We exist on this earth way before any water breaks.

"Flesh gives birth to flesh" makes the analogy quite clear.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Again you have no scripture to show your assumptions are true
If you did you would have posted it by now.

Kinda hypocritical coming from someone that claims drinking alcohol is a sin but can’t provide scripture to prove it.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

"Flesh gives birth to flesh" makes the analogy quite clear.

Makes what analogy quite clear?

 

[Genez]

If your making that statment, you need to add some to it.

How to be saved,

John 3:5
King James Version
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 2:38-39
King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call

Those to REFUSE TO OBEY JESUS is not saved, NOT MY RULES!!!

I REFUSE to be stupid.

.........

 

[Genez]

Common knowledge that a woman’s water would break during birth. Sure. It’s also common knowledge today. But what it wasn’t then and isn’t today is a common idiom of natural birth. I’ve never heard someone say when I was born of water speaking of their natural birth. They would just say when I was born. And I wouldn’t think Jesus would have to explain to Nicodemus that for someone to enter the kingdom the must first exist. Pretty sure that would also be common knowledge. And again with stillborn babies. If a child dies before he/she is born, are we to say they can’t enter the kingdom because they were not born of water?No. That in itself would mean that one doesn’t have to be born from a woman. We exist on this earth way before any water breaks.

How is one ever to be born of water baptism?????

If what you laid out as being reasonable, were true?

Then, one, we would need to be born of our mother (flesh).​

​

Two, born somehow of water baptism.​

​

And, then three, born of the Spirit.​

That would make three births!

Jesus would have had to have said...

You must be born again.
And, then, born again once more!

Only two births! Flesh and the Spirit.

Born again! TWICE!


........

 

[Just_A__Follower]

How is one ever to be born of water baptism?????

If what you laid out as being reasonable, were true?

Then, one, we would need to be born of our mother (flesh).​

​

Two, born somehow of water baptism.​

​

And, then three, born of the Spirit.​

That would make three births!

Jesus would have had to have said...

You must be born again.
And, then, again once more!

Only two births! Flesh and the Spirit.

Born again! TWICE!


........

Yes two births. Born of flesh(1st birth)and born of Spirit(2nd birth). John 3:5 is only decribing the second birth. The second birth is of water(represents cleansing and preparation) and the Spirit(the One that performs the transformation). The physical water in baptism does not accomplish the new birth. The Spirit gives new life. One is reborn before their physical baptism.

 

[HeIsHere]

Makes what analogy quite clear?

Analogy as in the comparison, between born of the flesh (water), the flesh is giving birth to flesh, which is first and then born of the Spirit.

I am quite sure they knew about the amniotic fluid which surrounded the baby and was part of the birth of the baby.
What you are saying is reaching beyond the text.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

Analogy as in the comparison, between born of the flesh (water), the flesh is giving birth to flesh, which is first and then born of the Spirit.

I am quite sure they knew about the amniotic fluid which surrounded the baby and was part of the birth of the baby.
What you are saying is reaching beyond the text.

Read the rest of John and make a note of everytime the word water is mentioned. Of course they knew about amniotic fluid, but no one spoke or wrote of natural birth in that way. No where in the Bible does the term “water” or phrase “born of water” mean natural birth. It always means actual physical water or it is symbolic of cleansing/purification. Even in other Greek and Jewish literature, it doesn’t refer to water as natural birth. What you are suggesting is reaching beyond all writings including scripture.

 

[sawdust]

How can we lose salvation if we don't even know how to obtain it?!!?!


The loss of salvation crowd has forgotten/walked away/forfeited the very TRUTH of the Lord Jesus Christ.


John 5:24
Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.


1 John 3:20-21
Even if our hearts condemn us, God is greater than our hearts, and He knows all things. / Beloved, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God,

The loss of salvation crowd has no confidence in God.

1 Corinthians 6:20
For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.

Does one really think the Father will outlay the highest possible price and then buy defective material?

I might be stupid and get conned, but the Lord? NEVER!!!!

 

[Kroogz]

1 Corinthians 6:20
For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.

Does one really think the Father will outlay the highest possible price and then buy defective material?

I might be stupid and get conned, but the Lord? NEVER!!!!

2 Cor 1:22~~who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

John 6:27
Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.”


Is losing a seal in question?

 

[Genez]

Yes two births. Born of flesh(1st birth)and born of Spirit(2nd birth). John 3:5 is only decribing the second birth. The second birth is of water(represents cleansing and preparation) and the Spirit(the One that performs the transformation). The physical water in baptism does not accomplish the new birth. The Spirit gives new life. One is reborn before their physical baptism.

No... no.... no....

You're adding to the word.
You are using a common rationalized explanation used by those who can not understand what the word "water' was referring to.
Born of the flesh?
The mother breaks water.

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit,
he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 3:5-6

Flesh is flesh.
Spirit is spirit.
= Twice.

It does not say, Spirit is water.

Now that you have been shown?
You should give it some time.

We need to avoid going into a damage control mode to try to save face.

Jesus absolutely crushed Peter's pride when needing to correct him.

Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! ​

You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in ​

mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”​

​

Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my ​

disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and ​

follow me. For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, ​

but whoever loses their life for me will find it.​

​

Matthew 16:23-25​

​

Trying to save face after an embarrassing correction is like trying to save one's life.

“Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves ​

and take up their cross and follow me. For whoever wants ​

to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for ​

me will find it.​

Humiliation when it is from the Lord is designed to work in us humility.
Peter was humbled after a crushing humiliation from Jesus.

If I had been a strong advocate for water baptism for the Church age?
I know that what I have shown you would have caused me either humiliation,
or a prideful backlash in a defense reaction.

That is why Jesus said that if we are to follow Him that we will have to deny self and take up our cross.
For God will be weeding out all areas of confidence based upon our human pride.

grace and peace ..........

 

[Just_A__Follower]

No... no.... no....

You're adding to the word.
You are using a common rationalized explanation used by those who can not understand what the word "water' was referring to.
Born of the flesh?
The mother breaks water.

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit,
he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 3:5-6

Flesh is flesh.
Spirit is spirit.
= Twice.

It does not say, Spirit is water.

Now that you have been shown?
You should give it some time.

We need to avoid going into a damage control mode to try to save face.

Jesus absolutely crushed Peter's pride when needing to correct him.

Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! ​

You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in ​

mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”​

​

Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my ​

disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and ​

follow me. For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, ​

but whoever loses their life for me will find it.​

​

Matthew 16:23-25​

​

Trying to save face after an embarrassing correction is like trying to save one's life.

“Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves ​

and take up their cross and follow me. For whoever wants ​

to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for ​

me will find it.​

Humiliation when it is from the Lord is designed to work in us humility.
Peter was humbled after a crushing humiliation from Jesus.

If I had been a strong advocate for water baptism for the Church age?
I know that what I have shown you would have caused me either humiliation,
or a prideful backlash in a defense reaction.

That is why Jesus said that if we are to follow Him that we will have to deny self and take up our cross.
For God will be weeding out all areas of confidence based upon our human pride.

grace and peace ..........

I’m good. Agree to disagree. Have a good night.

Oh and you haven’t shown me anything I haven’t already seen. As I said, I see way too many weaknesses in that view. It makes no sense.

 

[Genez]

Common knowledge that a woman’s water would break during birth. Sure. It’s also common knowledge today.

Were you saying they did not know back then that a woman breaks water?????


In ancient times, the phrase "breaking water" refers to the rupture of the amniotic sac during childbirth, signaling that labor is beginning. This understanding of childbirth has been recognized across various cultures throughout history.
juliamartins.co.uk

Understanding "Breaking Water" in Ancient Times
The Concept of Water in Birth
In ancient cultures, the phrase "breaking water" refers to the rupture of the amniotic sac during childbirth. This event signals that labor is imminent. While the specific terminology may not have been used, ancient people certainly recognized the physical signs of labor.
Cultural Interpretations

• Symbolism: Water has long been associated with life and fertility. Many ancient civilizations viewed water as a vital element in creation and birth.
• Rituals: Various cultures had rituals surrounding childbirth that often involved water, emphasizing its importance in the birthing process.

Medical Understanding

• Ancient Practices: Early medical practitioners, such as those in ancient Egypt and Greece, documented aspects of childbirth. They understood the significance of the amniotic fluid and its role in protecting the fetus.
• Hydrotherapy: The use of water for healing, known as hydrotherapy, was common. It was believed that bathing could aid in various health conditions, including those related to pregnancy.

Conclusion
While the phrase "breaking water" may not have been explicitly used, ancient people had a clear understanding of its significance in childbirth. Water's role in life and fertility was deeply ingrained in their cultural and medical practices.

 

[Magenta]

I didn't discern any animosity in her comments. Yours? Perhaps.

Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. Rejoice
and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets before you.

https://soundcloud.com/magenta-starwalker%2Fthe-fathers-call

The Father's Call

 

[Ouch]

Reminds me of the guy who stopped his car on a street at the corner, and stood still all day.
Cars honked and drove around him looking to see if he was awake.

Finally, after so many complaints from people hearing the honking horns all day long, a policeman
pulls up an knocks on his window.

The man rolls down his window.
The policeman asks him what the problem is why has he been sitting at the corner all day long?

The man points to a sign.
The sign reads: "STOP"
Then the man told the policeman that he was just following what the sign says.

Would you be judging that man if you thought he was stupid?

.........

It's fine you thinking I'm stupid.

You have one goal here to point your fingers at others to make your self look big.

Sad part is that is all backed by Satan.

JESUS is LOVE, Satan in hate and loves division.

 

[Ouch]

What about the other prisoners? All doors were opened. All chains were released.......But none escaped.


These prisons held folks who were NEVER going to get out. And many were executed.


No salvation for the prisoners that believed Paul. They could never get to the water to be dunked.

How many cells was there?

How many doors opened?

How many prisoners was there?

Did GOD break all of the chains or just the ones HE wanted?

Can a men enter Heaven with sin?

 

[Ouch]

Then you should know we are saved by grace through faith in Christ just as you have been shown so many times already. Stop adding to Christ's work.

Acts 16:31
They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”



Strewth. You have been shown so many times, the early Church was still doing things the old way for awhile. Christ's baptism is with the Spirit, not water. Matt.3:11 Acts 1:5 Eventually they would learn and Paul would say there is one baptism. Eph.4:5 Peter would learn and recognise our baptism in Christ is what saves us by His resurrection. 1Pet.3:21 Water has no power to do this, it has always been and will always be purely symbolic. It is by means of God the Spirit who baptizes us into Christ's death and resurrection. 1Cor.12:13 not water.

We are past the days of shadows and symbolism. In Christ we have the reality. We finally have real power to overcome our sin. We have more than the Law that could show us what is right but powerless to help us do what is right. Rom.8:3

Guess you forgot, I still waiting for you to answer that one question to prove your not a liar, so I didn't even read this.

 

[Ouch]

They were "immediately" baptized
It does not say how.
Spirit? Water?
Water would take a little bit of time.


The NKJV says, "immediately."

It does not say, Paul had them baptized.
Which would mean Paul used water.

LOL, CAN PAUL GIVE THEM THE HOLY GHOST???

 

[Ouch]

You should pay attention better.

And you know, sheep have teeth as well




Rightfully conclude the guy is a nutjob which would be a righteous judgement which is what Jesus said to do!

John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.




Is that like a pop quiz or did you give them time to study?





Yep, they got water baptized.

The Apostle were obeying what Jesus said about it.

Nowadays it's apparently fashionable to not only ignore Jesus' instructions but to also claim He is ignorant and doesn't know what He was talking about




All the others didn't accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.






The OSAS crowd only believes bit and pieces of God's Word.

They are trained by their handlers in the fine art of CHERRY PICKIN

View attachment 285747

The fight is real, Satan's plan keep them out of the water, Satan knows what happen in the water they don't.