The hatred of Jews

[ZNP]

Animals aren't people. Man is made in God's image, animals aren't. So yours is not a valid comparison, unless you are openly arguing against what God says on that matter? I didn't think so.

This is a different subject, but your argument again is flawed in presuming that I argue it is just to punish those who have committed no harm in the same way as it is to punish those who have committed harm.

I am not arguing against soldiers killing soldiers - that is war. I am saying that soldiers deliberately or carelessly targetting civilians is a war crime. Remember that creating a straw man to knock down is a tactic favoured by Communists.

On many threads, you are quite the sharp mind, but when it comes to the crimes of the Israeli government, you go to pieces and resort to Communist tactics. You should address that, but possibly are frightened that if you approached this topic with the same rationality you approach most others, you'd come to the conclusion that the Israelis are the Nazis, and would therefore be obliged to state so. Jesus was unafraid to speak the truth, no matter who didn't like it. You'd do well to follow His example.

My attitude about Israel is very clear. Israel is God's nation, He will take care of it. If they have sinned He will deal with it. Anyone who reads and studies the Bible will know that judgment begins with the house of God and God is quite severe in His discipline of Israel.

As for me I will bless and not curse Israel in the same way that I would bless and not curse anyone's child. That is for their parents to deal with, not me.

I find it incredibly hypocritical to focus on Israel's sins while ignoring your own. There is no country that should be pointing a finger at Israel, every single one has plenty of sins of their own to deal with.

I find your attitude that Israel's response to a terrorist attack on October of 2023 is too much to be so incredibly ironic that it is beyond belief. What was the US response to the terrorist attack on 9/11? Was that a measured and fair response? Did Iraq have anything to do with that attack? No? In fact I would say there is far more evidence that the 911 attack was an inside job than that Iraq had anything to do with it. So talk about an over response to a terrorist attack why don't you focus on the sins of your own country?

This whole thread reminds me of the book of Job. Chapter after chapter of everyone spouting their opinion, how many chapters before Job finally talked to God about it?

 

[Moses_Young]

My attitude about Israel is very clear. Israel is God's nation, He will take care of it. If they have sinned He will deal with it. Anyone who reads and studies the Bible will know that judgment begins with the house of God and God is quite severe in His discipline of Israel.

Faulty premise leads to a faulty conclusion. We are the Israel of God, through Christ Jesus. But even if you believe the modern-day Pharisees are somehow Israel too, surely you can agree that even Jesus condemned their wickedness?

As for me I will bless and not curse Israel in the same way that I would bless and not curse anyone's child. That is for their parents to deal with, not me.

He who spares the rod hates his son. It is not a curse to give a Godly rebuke. The real curse is telling the modern day Pharisees they are God's chosen people and whatever war crimes they commit God is gonna forgive 'cause its not true. If they won't accept Christ, they're going to burn in Hell - forever.

I find it incredibly hypocritical to focus on Israel's sins while ignoring your own. There is no country that should be pointing a finger at Israel, every single one has plenty of sins of their own to deal with.

I'm really pointing this issue out because it should be obvious to all Christians, but its clearly not. It is an attack on God's character, because the world hears that Christians are defending indefensible war crimes committed by the Israeli state, and get a really warped perspective of what God's justice is like. God's justice is terrible, but also very satisfying for those who love justice.

I find your attitude that Israel's response to a terrorist attack on October of 2023 is too much to be so incredibly ironic that it is beyond belief. What was the US response to the terrorist attack on 9/11? Was that a measured and fair response? Did Iraq have anything to do with that attack? No? In fact I would say there is far more evidence that the 911 attack was an inside job than that Iraq had anything to do with it. So talk about an over response to a terrorist attack why don't you focus on the sins of your own country?

Go to war in Iraq? No. No. No. Yes, the 9/11 attack was an inside job, of course. One only needs to research the facts for a few days to reach that conclusion, although the emotional component to learning the truth might make accepting the result much slower. However, one war crime does not deserve another.

This whole thread reminds me of the book of Job. Chapter after chapter of everyone spouting their opinion, how many chapters before Job finally talked to God about it?

So perhaps you should preface all your justifications of Israeli war crimes that these are your own opinions, and not those of God who clearly condemns murder, crimes against children, condemnation of the innocent with the guilty and the belief that modern day Pharisees now have a free pass to sin because they are really Abraham's descendants and not the devil's children afterall.

 

[Yahshua]

He who spares the rod hates his son. It is not a curse to give a Godly rebuke.

Good word. This reminds me of the following passage:

Ezekiel 33:7-9
Now, son of man, I am making you a watchman for the people of Israel. Therefore, listen to what I say and warn them for me. If I announce that some wicked people are sure to die and you fail to tell them to change their ways, then they will die in their sins, and I will hold you responsible for their deaths. But if you warn them to repent and they don’t repent, they will die in their sins, but you will have saved yourself.


So it is a curse to withhold a Godly rebuke.

 

[HeIsHere]

It is an attack on God's character, because the world hears that Christians are defending indefensible war crimes committed by the Israeli state, and get a really warped perspective of what God's justice is like. God's justice is terrible, but also very satisfying for those who love justice.

Amen.

The indicators are they are destroying themselves, as well.
I heard a professor/ commentator state on a podcast that no country which has committed genocide post world war two has survived.
It takes its toll in various ways in modern society, maybe because it cannot be hidden anymore.

 

[ZNP]

Faulty premise leads to a faulty conclusion. We are the Israel of God, through Christ Jesus. But even if you believe the modern-day Pharisees are somehow Israel too, surely you can agree that even Jesus condemned their wickedness?

He who spares the rod hates his son. It is not a curse to give a Godly rebuke. The real curse is telling the modern day Pharisees they are God's chosen people and whatever war crimes they commit God is gonna forgive 'cause its not true. If they won't accept Christ, they're going to burn in Hell - forever.

I'm really pointing this issue out because it should be obvious to all Christians, but its clearly not. It is an attack on God's character, because the world hears that Christians are defending indefensible war crimes committed by the Israeli state, and get a really warped perspective of what God's justice is like. God's justice is terrible, but also very satisfying for those who love justice.

Go to war in Iraq? No. No. No. Yes, the 9/11 attack was an inside job, of course. One only needs to research the facts for a few days to reach that conclusion, although the emotional component to learning the truth might make accepting the result much slower. However, one war crime does not deserve another.

So perhaps you should preface all your justifications of Israeli war crimes that these are your own opinions, and not those of God who clearly condemns murder, crimes against children, condemnation of the innocent with the guilty and the belief that modern day Pharisees now have a free pass to sin because they are really Abraham's descendants and not the devil's children afterall.

Yes and arrogance leads to a fall.

You accuse me of justifying Israel's war crimes. Please show me the post where I did that or confess that you are one with Satan who slanders the brethren and repent of your sins.

 

[ZNP]

Faulty premise leads to a faulty conclusion. We are the Israel of God, through Christ Jesus. But even if you believe the modern-day Pharisees are somehow Israel too, surely you can agree that even Jesus condemned their wickedness?

I believe that Israel has a covenant with God, that God is faithful even if all men are liars, that God brought Israel back after the Holocaust in fulfillment of that covenant and that Jesus did not come to annul the covenant but to fulfill it and that every jot and tittle will be fulfilled and will not pass away. I also believe that your accusation that I am basing this on faulty premises is arrogant.

He who spares the rod hates his son. It is not a curse to give a Godly rebuke. The real curse is telling the modern day Pharisees they are God's chosen people and whatever war crimes they commit God is gonna forgive 'cause its not true. If they won't accept Christ, they're going to burn in Hell - forever.

I suppose but the sin you will burn in hell for is slandering someone. I never told anyone that God would forgive war crimes. Insinuating that I have is slander. Give me the post where I said that or else repent of this sin.

I'm really pointing this issue out because it should be obvious to all Christians, but its clearly not. It is an attack on God's character, because the world hears that Christians are defending indefensible war crimes committed by the Israeli state, and get a really warped perspective of what God's justice is like. God's justice is terrible, but also very satisfying for those who love justice.

What is obvious to me is that I have been appointed a witness of the Lord's salvation, not a judge. I am not here to condemn but to warn and to present the way of salvation. When you judge others you usurp the Lord's position as judge and that is rebellion against the Lord Jesus Christ.

Go to war in Iraq? No. No. No. Yes, the 9/11 attack was an inside job, of course. One only needs to research the facts for a few days to reach that conclusion, although the emotional component to learning the truth might make accepting the result much slower. However, one war crime does not deserve another.

The Lord Jesus told us "judge not lest you be judged for with what judgement you judge you shall be judged". Everyone who judges Israel of war crimes will be judged with the same judgment. I think it is clear to me that Americans are in no position to be judging others of war crimes. But if you do, then you will be judged with the same judgement that you judge others with.

So perhaps you should preface all your justifications of Israeli war crimes that these are your own opinions, and not those of God who clearly condemns murder, crimes against children, condemnation of the innocent with the guilty and the belief that modern day Pharisees now have a free pass to sin because they are really Abraham's descendants and not the devil's children afterall.

You need to now reference all those "justifications of Israeli war crimes" that "I have posted" or else you are guilty of slander. It is a grievous thing to slander a child of God. I will await your speedy response to this slanderous accusation.

 

[ZNP]

James 4:11 Speak not one against another, brethren. He that speaketh against a brother, or judgeth his brother, speaketh against the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judgest the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. 12 One only is the lawgiver and judge, even he who is able to save and to destroy: but who art thou that judgest thy neighbor?

@Moses_Young has accused me of justifying war crimes. That is speaking against a brother and judging a brother. Do not be deceived, you aren't a "doer of the Law" when you are judging others, you are a judge. Only one is the judge, that is Jesus Christ, so you are usurping the Lord's position. People who do this want to think they are righteous because they are accusing others of being unrighteous, but James makes it clear, that is not righteousness, that is not being a doer of the law. That is being a judge and a usurper.

 

[ZNP]

We are in the fog of war, the only things we know for sure are that all sides are trying to discredit the other side, and that all sides are well practiced in the art of deception. Propaganda, deep fakes, and using every means at their disposal to win the PR battle.

However, we also have the word of God and would do well to listen to what God says.

1. This is His land.

2. These are His people and He will take care of this matter.

3. The whole world lies in the evil one.

In my opinion the UN trying to divide God's land is stupid, they have overstepped their authority, God warned them in His word, and so they are opening themselves up to judgement. Second, we should take care of our own house. Everything that they are accusing Israel of having done they have done. By accusing Israel they testify against themselves. This will not go good for them when they have to appear before the judgment seat. Instead of telling Israel what they must do, how about telling yourself what you must do. Finally the whole world lies in the evil one, the only way to be righteous is by the blood of Jesus and to be rescued from this evil age. Condemning Israel or Hamas does not fix this, repenting of sins and turning to Jesus the savior fixes it. All of these protestors will have to answer for that, if you are so concerned about fixing the sin of the world why are you not turning to Jesus and embracing Him?

@Moses_Young says I am using faulty premises. The only premises in this post are that the whole world lies in the evil one, a direct quote from the Bible. I'll stick with the fellowship of the apostle's over the opinions of @Moses_Young

 

[ZNP]

I'm not outraged, I'm thankful.

I'm thankful that I am not the Lord, I don't have to sort all this stuff out figuring who is guilty and for what, that is God's job and Jesus' job.

I'm thankful that I have learned not to judge before the time and before all the facts are in, it is very humiliating to be a useful idiot and then have your shame made public for everyone to see. We saw that with those like Cuomo who were shaming the people who questioned whether the vaccine was truly safe and effective and now has to admit he was harmed by the vaccine. Thank you Lord for giving everyone in the world this kind of heads up so they could avoid sticking their foot in their mouth.

I'm thankful that this is turning people to the Lord. I was having a little less than 500 new people come to my blog about the rapture each day, since this war going on in the Middle East that has doubled to a little less than a 1,000. So I see what is happening as turning out to salvation for tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands worldwide if my little blog is any indication.

I'm also thankful that this helps all the believers to get right with Jesus. You see a lot of animosity, finger pointing, accusations flying and these are things people need to repent of. What a mercy that we could repent of these sins now and take the Lord's blood and be cleansed white as snow rather than showing up to the throne of God with these things unrepented of.

I'm also thankful for the fulfillment of prophesy. Jesus told us it would be as the days of Noah.

11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence (Hamas).

12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence (Hamas) through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

It is comforting to know that the Lord of all told us about this 2,000 years ago. It fills me with peace knowing He is in charge and all things are being worked out according to His will.

@Moses_Young has accused me of faulty premises. The only premise in this post is that Jesus is Lord and I am not. I'll stick with the word of God as my premise and let @Moses_Young stick to his opinions and insults and slander of others.

 

[ZNP]

Sounds like self justification to me. You are not the judge. We have not been called to judge people. We can judge sin, but allow God and the Lord Jesus to handle the judgment of people. The Standard is what Michael said to Lucifer "The Lord judge you". But if that is too difficult to understand there are other verses like "judge not for with what judgement you judge you shall be judged"

This post shows what my premise is based on, the word of God.

 

[ZNP]

John 7:51 Doth God's law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?

Why are you concluding that Israel is guilty of genocide before they have had a fair trial?

@Moses_Young this is another example of the premise on which I was basing my posts. Are you saying the Bible is faulty? I have yet to find a single premise that is not the word of God.

 

[ZNP]

I went through every post I made on this thread. I was unable to find a single post that justifies war crimes. That is slander to accuse someone of saying that when they didn't say it.

I did find references to the Bible that tell us not to judge others. I found references to the Bible that say that according to the Bible you should hear from both sides in a conflict before condemning anyone. I found references in the Bible, though not spelled out that the Lord warned us of "rumors of war" which I refer to as "the fog of war". Propaganda, and different countries trying to spin the narrative to justify themselves and condemn others. Once again I call on @Moses_Young to provide the offensive post of mine that "justifies war crimes".

He also needs to clarify what the "faulty premise" was that he was referring to because it sure looks like he was referring to the Bible verses I was quoting. I think everyone on this forum has the right to know if @Moses_Young thinks the Bible is faulty.

Otherwise he needs to confess his sin and repent.

 

[HeIsHere]

So perhaps you should preface all your justifications of Israeli war crimes that these are your own opinions, and not those of God who clearly condemns murder, crimes against children, condemnation of the innocent with the guilty and the belief that modern day Pharisees now have a free pass to sin because they are really Abraham's descendants and not the devil's children afterall.

It seems to me that defending Israel with statements like 'I stand with the Jews" without distinction is justifying apartheid, ethnic cleansing, collective punishment and now it may be soon ruled they have engaged in genocide.

 

[ZNP]

It seems to me that defending Israel with statements like 'I stand with the Jews" without distinction is justifying apartheid, ethnic cleansing, collective punishment and now it may be soon ruled they have engaged in genocide.

Well I searched this thread to see if I ever said this sentence you provide about standing with one group of people and I got:

No results found.

The only thing I can think of is you are insinuating that I or others have?

The bottom line is that @Moses_Young has accused me of using faulty premises and the only premises I could find me using on this thread are Bible verses. So he needs to clarify what he was referring to and if he thinks the Bible is faulty. That is certainly something that would be of interest to everyone on a Christian forum.

He has also said that I have justified war crimes. I contend that is a blatant lie and have asked for him to share the post that he is saying is justifying war crimes. If he doesn't do that then his post is slanderous and libelous and I will take it up with the administrators of this forum.

Now you step into this and offer him a possible get out of jail free card. You want to equate "I stand with the Jews" with "justifying war crimes". Now I never said this so it seems to be a non sequitor to the current debate, but I will say that the Bible tells me to bless Israel and that God will bless those that bless her and curse those that curse her".

Why is it that these "social justice warriors" reject the word of God and twist what people say? They lie, and slander others? They rush to judgment before we have even had a trial?

So please clarify your statement to us, are you saying that anyone who "blesses Israel" according to the word of God is guilty of a war crime? We are on a Christian forum and I think it is something that will be relevant to all on this forum to know where you stand concerning the Bible being the infallible word of God.

 

[HeIsHere]

Well I searched this thread to see if I ever said this sentence you provide about standing with one group of people and I got:

No results found.

The only thing I can think of is you are insinuating that I or others have?

The bottom line is that @Moses_Young has accused me of using faulty premises and the only premises I could find me using on this thread are Bible verses. So he needs to clarify what he was referring to and if he thinks the Bible is faulty. That is certainly something that would be of interest to everyone on a Christian forum.

He has also said that I have justified war crimes. I contend that is a blatant lie and have asked for him to share the post that he is saying is justifying war crimes. If he doesn't do that then his post is slanderous and libelous and I will take it up with the administrators of this forum.

Now you step into this and offer him a possible get out of jail free card. You want to equate "I stand with the Jews" with "justifying war crimes". Now I never said this so it seems to be a non sequitor to the current debate, but I will say that the Bible tells me to bless Israel and that God will bless those that bless her and curse those that curse her".

Why is it that these "social justice warriors" reject the word of God and twist what people say? They lie, and slander others? They rush to judgment before we have even had a trial?

So please clarify your statement to us, are you saying that anyone who "blesses Israel" according to the word of God is guilty of a war crime? We are on a Christian forum and I think it is something that will be relevant to all on this forum to know where you stand concerning the Bible being the infallible word of God.

Ancient Israel is not modern day Israel.
God was referring to ancient Israel. You can believe that statement is applicable to today, I do not.

"Nevertheless, I stand by Israel and the Jews!"

I think the mask has been pulled down on the lies.

No the IDF is not the most moral army,
and yes they have engaged in ethnic cleansing and continue to
and yes they have engaged in collective punishment
and yes they targeted an American food convoy,
and yes they targeted a refugee camp
and yes they placed the indigenous people of the land in an open air prison, an apartheid state
and NO you still are not allowed to bomb civilians even if they were being used as human shields and that is not what is meant by human shields anyway

Soon they will must likely be found guilty of genocide.

So now that all this is revealed how does one still stand with the Jews?

The horror and atrocities of terrorists groups are well known so no elucidation required there, however, even in the light of what is now known about the government / IDF/ Mossad people still have winner ribbons/agree on the opening post.

So those who agree with the OP (not sure if you do since I was thinking more about the reactions given) are they not standing with a country that is doing things which are indefensible?

And the Jews are defending themselves does not really cut it, because it is well known Netanhoo propped up Hamas when he thought it was in his best interest.

And this has been on my mind and bothering me much before @Moses_Young made his post but I will let him speak to what is his pov.

 

[Susanna]

So now that all this is revealed how does one still stand with the Jews?

Now you’re mixing up the Jews with the country named Israel. Regardless of your views on Israel you should not disqualify anyone standing by the Jews.

 

[HeIsHere]

Now you’re mixing up the Jews with the country named Israel. Regardless of your views on Israel you should not disqualify anyone standing by the Jews.

Sure, just to be clear, I mean the nation (not individual citizens) and primarily its leaders and army!

Jews are not a homogeneous group, there are many Jews around the world who do not support Israel and what it is doing, as stated above and I stand with them as well.

 

[ZNP]

Ancient Israel is not modern day Israel.
God was referring to ancient Israel. You can believe that statement is applicable to today, I do not.

"Nevertheless, I stand by Israel and the Jews!"

I did not say that, you have me confused with another poster. Ask them about that. I have not said that I stand with the Jews, nor would I even say I stand with Israel in reference to the Israel of this world. Yes, I agree that as part of the church I am part of the Israel which is above. But this expression is clearly a reference to the nation of Israel on this Earth. Praying for the Peace of Jerusalem and blessing Israel are not the same thing as "standing with them". I stand with Jesus. When Joshua asked the angel of the Lord if He stands with Israel or their opponents He said neither.

I think the mask has been pulled down on the lies.

No the IDF is not the most moral army,
and yes they have engaged in ethnic cleansing and continue to
and yes they have engaged in collective punishment
and yes they targeted an American food convoy,
and yes they targeted a refugee camp
and yes they placed the indigenous people of the land in an open air prison, an apartheid state
and NO you still are not allowed to bomb civilians even if they were being used as human shields and that is not what is meant by human shields anyway

Soon they will must likely be found guilty of genocide.

So now that all this is revealed how does one still stand with the Jews?

Why are you asking me this? I never said I stand with the Jews or with Israel. I fully support trials concerning war crimes. I fully support bringing all the evidence and making a case for genocide, ethnic cleansing or any other crime. We have international laws and I support there being a fair trial for everyone involved, Hamas, IDF, Netanyahoo, etc. I have never once suggested anything concerning the morality of the IDF army. What I have said is that you will be judged by the same judgement that you judge others. I suspect that any country accusing the IDF of not being a moral army will find that they do not fare well when judged by the same yardstick for their own countries army.

The horror and atrocities of terrorists groups are well known so no elucidation required there, however, even in the light of what is now known about the government / IDF/ Mossad people still have winner ribbons/agree on the opening post.

So those who agree with the OP (not sure if you do since I was thinking more about the reactions given) are they not standing with a country that is doing things which are indefensible?

Why don't you know? Anyone can go to Post #1 and click on the responses to see what each person said. I never saw any reason to respond to that. I did not agree, did not give it the thumbs up, did not give it any response at all. Paul said not to lay hands on anyone quickly because if you do you become partakers of their sins. I have already been warned that Israel is not redeemed. They are every bit as fallen as anyone else on this earth that has not received Jesus Christ. I shared that Israel is God's fig tree. The fig tree is a reference to the fall of man. Every nation on this earth is fallen, sinful, and Israel is no exception.

And the Jews are defending themselves does not really cut it, because it is well known Netanhoo propped up Hamas when he thought it was in his best interest.

And this has been on my mind and bothering me much before @Moses_Young made his post but I will let him speak to what is his pov.

I am not here to condemn Israel, or Gaza or Iran or Russia. At the moment the goal is that the people in these nations would repent and be saved. Yes, I understand the whole earth lies in the evil one and we are headed down the rapids to the falls known as Armageddon. But until that judgment comes people can turn to the Lord.

 

[HeIsHere]

I did not say that, you have me confused with another poster.

Yes I know, I am talking about the the first post and those who agreed with it.

My point is perhaps they did not know but now a lot has been brought to light and so any one who gave full support to Israel as in the nation of Israel, the government and its army, should reconsider their unequivocal support if in fact that was their position.
I stand by this, I once supported Israel and then I looked deeper.

Not really about you, it was just in connection to what @Moses_Young stated but on a different tangent.

I am not a futurist, I see things differently, I see a counterfeit not a move of God.
The rest is up to you and @Moses_Young discuss.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

What really disturbs me is that the hatred of Jews is on the rise again. Both here and in Europe.

People I know and who I thought were intelligent and good people are just jumping on the bandwagon supporting Palestine no matter what.

I’m not ashamed to say I support Israel and the Jews, but golly how much trouble that causes me.

Nevertheless, I stand by Israel and the Jews!

Standing by the Israeli government is like standing by king Herod.
There's really no reason to.

Come time for armegeddon ,all non christians in the promised land will be cast into a furnace and burned up including the Israeli government .