The hatred of Jews

[Shilohsfoal]

Pay very close attention to the words 'But before all these'...

You may find it helpful to take a good honest look at this web page:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Olivet_Discourse.html

I did pay attention to it.
Thats why I posted it.


Before the war of armegeddon ,the christians in Israel will be persecuted.They will be imprisoned and murdered.


This persecution begins after the false prophet arrives in Israel and continues to the time of the end.

Daniel 11:33-35
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.
During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.
And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.



Then,at the time of the end ,nation rises against nation and kingdom against kingdom just as Jesus said in the Olivet discourse.



Daniel 11"40-44

At the time of the end the king of the South will engage him in battle, and the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots and cavalry and a great fleet of ships. He will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood.
He will also invade the Beautiful Land. Many countries will fall, but Edom, Moab and the leaders of Ammon will be delivered from his hand.
He will extend his power over many countries; Egypt will not escape.
He will gain control of the treasures of gold and silver and all the riches of Egypt, with the Libyans and Cushites in submission.
But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many.


That is when Christ comes and gathers his elect just like the olivet discourse says.


Daniel 12:1-2
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.


All these things are fulfilled in 3.5 years just as I have told you.



Daniel 12:6-7
One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled?”

The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, “It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.”




I quoted Luke 21 especially for the words"before all these things"because I understand from the scripture,the Messianic Jews are beaten,imprisoned and killed because of their instruction before the war of armegeddon at the time of the end in Daniel 11:40-44.

 

[GaryA]

Many/Most of the things mentioned in the verses just before that phrase have already occurred...

Did you take a good honest look at the web page?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Pay very close attention to the words 'But before all these'...

You may find it helpful to take a good honest look at this web page:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Olivet_Discourse.html

Here again are the Messianic Jews in Israel being persecuted for 3.5 years before the beast is destroyed and the kingdom (promised land)is given to those messianic Jews.


Daniel 7
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.




It was the country of Israel that came up last among the ten .It subdued three kings in 1967 when it ceased Jerusalem.Israels government was attempting to change laws last year.
Most likely the persecution of the Messianic Jews will start next year after Trump is reelected.

 

[GaryA]

It was the country of Israel that came up last among the ten .It subdued three kings in 1967 when it ceased Jerusalem.Israels government was attempting to change laws last year.

Keep going - tell me more about your view on this...

What/Who exactly are the 'ten'? Got a list?

How did it subdue three kings? What/Which kings?

What laws did they attempt to change?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Many/Most of the things mentioned in the verses just before that phrase have already occurred...

Did you take a good honest look at the web page?

As I said.
The persecution of the Messianic Jews when they are beaten imprisoned and killed takes place after the false prophet arrives.They come to Israel in Jesus name claiming to be in Christ.




Luke 21
8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.


Mathew 24
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.


Mark 13
5 And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:

6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.


Revelation 13

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.







I believe he will appear in Israel next year to help his ally.The beast needs all the help he can get.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Keep going - tell me more about your view on this...

What/Who exactly are the 'ten'? Got a list?

How did it subdue three kings? What/Which kings?

What laws did they attempt to change?

The ten nations that came up before Israel when the middle east was divided.

The three kings the little horn subdued were the kings of Jordan ,Syria,and Egypt. Fulfilled in 1967.The little horn is Israel.



The laws Israel was attempting to change are laws concerning the supreme Court.Netamyahu is attempting to strip the supreme Court of much of its power so that he can pass unreasonable laws.


https://apnews.com/article/israel-supreme-court-judicial-overhaul-78733a94428b8b9f2c311ee6779eba23

 

[GaryA]

The laws Israel was attempting to change are laws concerning the supreme Court.Netamyahu is attempting to strip the supreme Court of much of its power so that he can pass unreasonable laws.


https://apnews.com/article/israel-supreme-court-judicial-overhaul-78733a94428b8b9f2c311ee6779eba23

And, you believe that the phrase "and think to change times and laws" in Daniel 7:25 was/is specifically referring to this?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

And, you believe that the phrase "and think to change times and laws" in Daniel 7:25 was/is specifically referring to this?

It's not over.


"That is, technology that has not been used before and is allowed under the legislation we shall enact," he clarified.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/b...s-to-microchip-kids-slammed-by-experts-627381



It won't be implemented till the false prophet arrives in Israel though.Not this year but probably sometime next year.

 

[GaryA]

Then,at the time of the end ,nation rises against nation and kingdom against kingdom just as Jesus said in the Olivet discourse.

No - you are out of sequence. The Olivet Discourse places those things "well before" the "time of the end" and not at the same time.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

No - you are out of sequence. The Olivet Discourse places those things "well before" the "time of the end" and not at the same time.

The Olivet discourse is in harmony with Daniel 11:31-12:2.

From the time the false prophet arrives in Israel.to the time of the end.3.5 years.

Daniel 12:7
The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, “It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.”

 

[GaryA]

The Olivet discourse is in harmony with Daniel 11:31-12:2.

The Olivet Discourse is also in harmony with Revelation.

Neither is in perfect chronological order. (There are overlaps, etc.)

Your statement does not alter the truth of what I said in my previous post.

From the time the false prophet arrives in Israel.to the time of the end.3.5 years.

What 'event' would you say marks the 'time of the end' as you are using it in this statement?

 

[ZNP]

The New Testament is our covenant with God. Every word is part of our contract with God. That means that every word is for us and to us. There are many books that are the word of God that are not part of our covenant. God speaks to many people, that may be a word just for you. But if it is in the New Testament it is a word for us, all of us, not just to Christians who lived at 70 AD and definitely not for people who are not part of the New Covenant.

Yes, something the Lord said may have been fulfilled in 70 AD, but pattern is prophecy. There is no new thing under the sun, that which has been is that which will be. If a word was spoken to the apostles and fulfilled to the apostles the reason they put it in the New Testament is because they are an example to the rest of us. Yes, Peter denied the Lord, but so will many more believers. Yes, Thomas was doubting until he was able to put his fingers in the nail prints, but so will many other believers.

So any doctrine that says this part of the New Testament was "fulfilled" and does not apply to us today doesn't understand what a covenant is. If it didn't apply to us today it would not be in the New Testament. John said there were many words that Jesus spoke which are not in the New Testament, they are still the word of God, but they weren't part of our covenant. Maybe that word was for John, or Peter, or Paul.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

The Olivet Discourse is also in harmony with Revelation.

Neither is in perfect chronological order. (There are overlaps, etc.)

Your statement does not alter the truth of what I said in my previous post.


What 'event' would you say marks the 'time of the end' as you are using it in this statement?

When kingdom comes against kingdom.
Daniel says its the time of the end in this verse which I have already posted.

Daniel 11:40
“At the time of the end the king of the South will engage him in battle, and the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots and cavalry and a great fleet of ships. He will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood.



As I've posted already.The persecution of the saints takes place in Daniel 11:33-35 which is in chronological order It corresponds to the Olivet discourse in which Jesus says the christians are persecuted before kingdom rises against kingdom.


Luke 21
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:

15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.





Jesus is correct.
First the persecution of the christians in Israel.Then the nations attack Israel overcoming Israel.They will be led away captive and killed with the sword as in verse 24.
That is what they deserve.That is the faith of the saints .As they have done,let it be done to them.


Revelation 13
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Luke 21
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.


Zech 14
14 A day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.

2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city

 

[GaryA]

nation shall rise against nation - already past history*
kingdom against kingdom - already past history*
great earthquakes shall be in divers places - already past history*
famines - already past history*
pestilences - already past history*
fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven - this is an exception - not necessarily already past history

But before all these - the things mentioned in verses 12-19.

The things mentioned in verses 12-19 occurred before 70 A.D.

Verses 20-24a are about the events of circa 70 A.D. and aftermath


(*) fairly recent history - within the past few centuries or so

 

[Shilohsfoal]

nation shall rise against nation - already past history*
kingdom against kingdom - already past history*
great earthquakes shall be in divers places - already past history*
famines - already past history*
pestilences - already past history*
fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven - this is an exception - not necessarily already past history

But before all these - the things mentioned in verses 12-19.

The things mentioned in verses 12-19 occurred before 70 A.D.

Verses 20-24a are about the events of circa 70 A.D. and aftermath


(*) fairly recent history - within the past few centuries or so

False
It wasn't till the 20th century were earthquakes created when Kingdom rose up against kingdom.There were no fearful sights in the heavens in 70 ad created by nation attacking another nation.

Luke 21
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.


These earthquakes,famines,pestilences,fearful sights in the heavens accompany nuclear bombs which nation uses against nation in the war of armegeddon.No such device exited to cause an earthquake in 70 ad.

 

[GaryA]

The things mentioned in verses 12-19 occurred before 70 A.D.

- but, also continued beyond that period of time...

 

[GaryA]

False

True

It wasn't till the 20th century were earthquakes created when Kingdom rose up against kingdom.

Good grief - is that not STILL past history??????????

You are totally missing the point... SMH

There were no fearful sights in the heavens in 70 ad created by nation attacking another nation.

These earthquakes,famines,pestilences,fearful sights in the heavens accompany nuclear bombs which nation uses against nation in the war of armegeddon.No such device exited to cause an earthquake in 70 ad.

You do not "listen" very well when you read. You are mixing up what I said happened in the different times mentioned. Please go back and read it again very carefully...

 

[Shilohsfoal]

True


Good grief - is that not STILL past history??????????

You are totally missing the point... SMH



You do not "listen" very well when you read. You are mixing up what I said happened in the different times mentioned. Please go back and read it again very carefully...

No
Luke 21 has not been fulfilled as you claim.It is not in the past as you claim.It is very close to being fulfilled though.Anyone who has been paying attention would know it.


Luke 21
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

True


Good grief - is that not STILL past history??????????

You are totally missing the point... SMH



You do not "listen" very well when you read. You are mixing up what I said happened in the different times mentioned. Please go back and read it again very carefully...

The fearful sights in the heavens has not befallen Israel yet.It is coming.The earthquake ,the heavens shaking just as Jesus said.

Luke 21
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

Then they will hide underground and tell the rocks to fall on us.


Luke 23:28-30
Jesus turned and said to them, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep for yourselves and for your children.
For the time will come when you will say, ‘Blessed are the childless women, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!’
Then “’they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!"’

The same "fall on us,cover us" is recorded in the book of revelation taking place soon after the earthquake and the heavens departing from the earth as a scroll being rolled together.

 

[GaryA]

Weeeeelll - you have your mind made up - to each his own - carry on!

To any others who are so inclined - check out the web page I posted earlier - for what it may be worth...