Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.

[Thunderrr-mental]

Because He saved a finite number of people, before He created the world and He never added a single soul to that number. Look it up, this is Gods Word.

Ok Charly so what's the point in believing in Jesus then

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

But it is your false private interpretation, I ca always tell when you misinterpret, misapply and misquote scripture. It's bleeding obvious because it doesn't line up with the rest of what God said. So if scripture contradicts scripture, then you must go back to the drawing board and study until he penny drops, otherwise your running around with crazy false ideas in your head.

you've been damaged friend.

I'll pray for you again.

Take care Charly.

 

[Charlie_2024]

Ok Charly so what's the point in believing in Jesus then

There's no point in believing in Jesus, unless you are an elect Saint of God

 

[Charlie_2024]

you've been damaged friend.

I'll pray for you again.

Take care Charly.

I'm already safe and secure, I don't need prayers but thanks anyway

 

[CS1]

well if that was true, then i can say that you worship Jacob Arminius.

The truth is every professing Christian must choose one of the two interpretations of the gospel. If they claim that a third option exists, then they are flat out liars.

I have had my house on offer for free to anyone who can find the mysterious non existent third option. It's been freely available for years, and nobody has claimed it yet so that proves that I'm right.

Don't even know who that is. But I have heard of John Calvin and he did not write the gospel of John.

The Person I worship is the Lord Jesus Christ, as He is the one I speak to more than any other. I challenge you to go and look at your own post. John Calvin is mentioned more in them than The Lord Jesus. That is my issue with this topic. You have even said or suggested that John Calvin is authoritative, as if it is God's word. And you said that Jesus has been silent for almost 2000 years. That is untrue and unbiblical. The Word of God is Complete from GEN to REV. You are adding J. Calvin to the Canon. Redicuals when J. Calvin was a Reformwer

Salvation is indeed of the Jews because to them were given the oracles of God but your response is therefore assuming that Christ died only for Jews which would be in contradiction of John 3:16 in which all of His people throughout the whole world and not simply one nation would be granted faith to be saved.

Jesus said in John 10:11-29 that He laid down His life for His sheep and then said some were not of His sheep. Did Christ die for those who are not His sheep and end up in Hell?

No, I am not assuming that at all I said Christ died for all.

 

[Charlie_2024]

FYI, the word of God says Romans 5:8

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

to place together, to set in the same place, to bring or band together.

You say God DOES NOT LOVE THE UNREPENTED SINNER WHO ARE IN HELL...


God doesn't remember them anymore, those who are in hell, so HIS love is NOT in HELL, the place of eternal Judgment.

That is why you do not want to go there.

That's incorrect, because God is in hell as well as being everywhere else at the same time. you forgot to consider His omnipresence before you jumped to your conclusion.

 

[Charlie_2024]

Don't even know who that is. But I have heard of John Calvin and he did not write the gospel of John.

The Person I worship is the Lord Jesus Christ, as He is the one I speak to more than any other. I challenge you to go and look at your own post. John Calvin is mentioned more in them than The Lord Jesus. That is my issue with this topic. You have even said or suggested that John Calvin is authoritative, as if it is God's word. And you said that Jesus has been silent for almost 2000 years. That is untrue and unbiblical. The Word of God is Complete from GEN to REV. You are adding J. Calvin to the Canon. Redicuals when J. Calvin was a Reformwer

No, I am not assuming that at all I said Christ died for all.

OK, thank you for admitting that you don't know who Jacob Arminius is. Now I know why why you're not qualified to comment on the topic of predestination and election. John Calvin and Jacob Arminius, presented two radically different interpretations of the gospel.

John claimed that salvation is of the Lord and man has no input. Arminius claimed that salvation is attained by obeying the gospel, meaning we are saved by the works of men and not by grace alone.

Every professing Christian, holds to one of these two views. As there are no third options, as Roman Catholics believe that mother Mary, the Church and the saints and their sacraments, save them but these all amount to a man centered works based Arminius gospel.

So the Church is divided into two denominations, those who believe that we can't add anything to the finished work of Christ and those (Arminius) who believe God offered salvation, but it's up to man to earn it by good works and obedience.

 

[CS1]

That's incorrect, because God is in hell as well as being everywhere else at the same time. you forgot to consider His omnipresence before you jumped to your conclusion.

You forgot He is Holy and can not look on sin. Hell is a total separation from God. That is why it is hell.

 

[CS1]

OK, thank you for admitting that you don't know who Jacob Arminius is. Now I know why why you're not qualified to comment on the topic of predestination and election. John Calvin and Jacob Arminius, presented two radically different interpretations of the gospel.

John claimed that salvation is of the Lord and man has no input. Arminius claimed that salvation is attained by obeying the gospel, meaning we are saved by the works of men and not by grace alone.

Every professing Christian, holds to one of these two views. As there are no third options, as Roman Catholics believe that mother Mary, the Church and the saints and their sacraments, save them but these all amount to a man centered works based Arminius gospel.

So the Church is divided into two denominations, those who believe that we can't add anything to the finished work of Christ and those (Arminius) who believe God offered salvation, but it's up to man to earn it by good works and obedience.

LOL, coming from you, I will take that as a compliment. I do not care what you think is qualified. They are radical, alright, and have caused more division in the body of Christ than any other.

Not every professing Christian holds to one of these two views. That is your opinion. Yes, there is a third option. Both have Biblical points, yet Pride has them fighting with the professing Christians.

The Truth is the third and only thing that matters. That is in the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Soild Foundation of Truth. If one placed their faith in the death, burial, and Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ, they shall be saved, Romans chapter 10 :9-11 says.

I couldn't care less what John Calvin or Mr. Jacob think or say. You are bound to that, not me, and many others. I trust Jesus; you need John Calvin, but I do not.

 

[Charlie_2024]

You forgot He is Holy and can not look on sin. Hell is a total separation from God. That is why it is hell.

Well, may I suggest you study your bible and you will find that God most definitely is in hell right now. He can see all the reprobate in there and they can see Him. So yeah, back to the drawing board we go

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

you will find that God most definitely is in hell right now.

So not on His Throne in Heaven, but in hell this very moment?

 

[Charlie_2024]

So not on His Throne in Heaven, but in hell this very moment?

Allow me to enlighten you of the basic facts about God.

No.1. God is omnipresent. Sorry I know it's a big word but it just means He's everywhere at the same time. Hell is somewhere so God must be there if He's everywhere.

Happy to help with any other issues you may have

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Allow me to enlighten you of the basic facts about God.

No.1. God is omnipresent. Sorry I know it's a big word but it just means He's everywhere at the same time. Hell is somewhere so God must be there if He's everywhere.

Happy to help with any other issues you may have

Being able to be everywhere at once does not equate to being where eternal punishment is being conducted. They are suffering and there's no need for God to be with those who chose to reject Him.

 

[PaulThomson]

It sounds as though you have you have interpreted the above verses as God instructing Cain on how to make his offerings acceptable to God. But if you read them carefully, you should conclude that God wasn't giving Cain instructions but He was rather, giving him a reason why his offering was rejected.

At no point did God give Cain a promise to accept his offerings in the future, if they were offered according to Gods requirements. God was actually saying, if Cains offering was acceptable He would have accepted it.

And sin was lying at the door, because his offering was unacceptable. This meant that Cains sins were not atoned for and sin desired to rule him and he would need to rule over it, to avoid being consumed by it.

This is a clear indication that Cain was not one of Gods elect, because God knows that sin always wins over those who fight it on their own, without God. Cain quickly demonstrated why man can never have victory over the power of sin, unless God fights the battle for us. Cain went on to murder his brother to prove he has no power over sin.

God never gave Cain any indication that He might accept any future offerings, even before he murdered Abel. The fact that he murdered his brother shows that he was not one of Gods elect, and as such he can never become one.

So now you are able to determine from someone's works God's secret will: whether He would elect and save them based not on their works.

 

[Charlie_2024]

Being able to be everywhere at once does not equate to being where eternal punishment is being conducted. They are suffering and there's no need for God to be with those who chose to reject Him.

But there is a need for God to be there, God said He is there. I can find the scripture passage for you.

It would be like having a prison, without somebody in charge to oversee the punishment and make sure everyone is getting what they deserve.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

But there is a need for God to be there, God said He is there. I can find the scripture passage for you.

It would be like having a prison, without somebody in charge to oversee the punishment and make sure everyone is getting what they deserve.

Someone is there ordering demonic punishment already.

 

[Charlie_2024]

So now you are able to determine from someone's works God's secret will: whether He would elect and save them based not on their works.

Well from my view, I can identify a lost sinner easily because I have discernment and sound judgement. But that doesn't mean that God won't regenerate them and save them. My judgement is limited to the temporal, because I'm not omniscient.

My father was a police officer, and he did testify against a murderer who received the death penalty. But that doesn't mean that my father was 100% sure the man was a reprobate who had no hope of salvation.

He may have repented at the last moment like the thief on the cross. Only God knows who His elect are, but we still have to call a spade a spade in the meantime.

 

[Charlie_2024]

So now you are able to determine from someone's works God's secret will: whether He would elect and save them based not on their works.

Election took place before the world was created. I don't believe the works based Arminian gospel, I reject it and embrace Calvin's grace based gospel.

The only way I can determine if a person is Reprobate, is if they blaspheme against the Holy Spirit. but I can also determine if a person is on the road to hell, by the way they live their life.

For example if someone claims to be a Christian but they live with a partner outside of marriage, that shows they are on their way to hell, because shacking up is fornication and God said fornicators would be cast into hell.

There are tons more examples of people on the road to hell, like drunkards, drug addicts, liars, thieves, gossipers and many other clear signs of false Christians. You simply can't be a Christian while you willfully sin.

I'm sure the vast majority of professing Christians will be cast into the lake of fire, Jesus said very few will go to heaven.

 

[CS1]

Well, may I suggest you study your bible and you will find that God most definitely is in hell right now. He can see all the reprobate in there and they can see Him. So yeah, back to the drawing board we go

only in your eyes and they are no authority to me

 

[Burn1986]

No, this is false. No such thing exists in the Bible, back to the drawing board for you

So if it says God relented or changed His mind, then the Bible is false? I’m amazed that you would say “I don’t care if it says it in the Bible, it’s false” Jonah 3:10. Getting caught up in “if I’m the elect or not elect” is a trap of the enemy, especially when it causes you to stumble away from the salvation message. But, if your goal is to win a purely intellectual argument about the Bible, then nothing matters.