Can the nonelect ever be born-again? (2 Kings 22:27) With the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.

[rogerg]

Paul is referring to the nation of Israel, God's elect nation. The were chosen by God to bring forth the Messiah. They are enemies of the gospel. Paul has a deep desire to see them saved.

The earthly nation of Israel is not God's elect nation. God divorced them in the Old Testament due to their spiritual fornication. Their
special place with God ended then:

[Jer 3:8 KJV] 8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

[Jer 3:9 KJV] 9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

The earthly nation of Israel is not God's elect nation. God divorced them in the Old Testament due to their spiritual fornication. Their
special place with God ended then:

[Jer 3:8 KJV] 8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

[Jer 3:9 KJV] 9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.

Does God predestine people to be saved first

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

, but don't you dare accuse God of being evil.

Does God predestine people to be saved first

 

[John146]

Nope, the below verses were directed to Timothy. Timothy, though (and because of) his Greek father, was a Gentile not a Jew. So, they cannot be referring to 144,00 Jewish male virgins (that is, not earthly Jews), but instead, are those chosen to salvation by God out of ALL "kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation", who God makes into the true spiritual Jews of spiritual Israel - the Israel from above.

[2Ti 1:9 KJV]
9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

[2Ti 2:10-14 KJV]
10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
11 [It is] a faithful saying: For if we be dead with [him], we shall also live with [him]:
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with [him]: if we deny [him], he also will deny us:
13 If we believe not, [yet] he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
14 Of these things put [them] in remembrance, charging [them] before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, [but] to the subverting of the hearers.

Which verses explicitly and specifically define, state, and tie-in the 144,00 to represent earthly Jewish male virgins as the elect?

You replied to the response I gave to the Matthew passage, not the Timothy one.

 

[rogerg]

You replied to the response I gave to the Matthew passage, not the Timothy one.

Thought I did reply to your Matthew passage- see the below. If earthly Israel isn't the Israel of God (given that God divorced it), then neither can the earthly Jews be the elect of God.
My point with 2 Ti 2:10 - 14, was to demonstrate that the elect are not solely the earthly Jews because Timothy wasn't an earthly Jew, yet he was nevertheless of the elect. Now, I don't mean to exclude all Jews from the elect because there obviously are some who are of it, but they are of the elect, well, because, God elected them individually into it just as He did with everyone who is elect.

So, I think it can be shown in/by the verses I provided, that the term elect can only mean those chosen by God to salvation (the spiritual Jews) and not the Jews of Israel.

This was my reply:
"The earthly nation of Israel is not God's elect nation. God divorced them in the Old Testament due to their spiritual fornication. Their
special place with God ended then:

[Jer 3:8 KJV] 8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

[Jer 3:9 KJV] 9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks. "

 

[Charlie_2024]

Racist? Where in the world did you draw that conclusion?! Dear Lord

Some are suggesting the the elect of God are only ethnic Israelis, so I had to correct them

 

[maxamir]

LOL You need to provide context to the text. Matt chapter one is the genealogy Of Jesus back to David as Luke chapter three is the genealogy back Adam.

In Matthew chapter 1 it the Line of David who are the Jews His People as Jesus said Salvation is of the Jews . In luke is is Adam which is not a Jew or hebrew but First man.

nice try.

Salvation is indeed of the Jews because to them were given the oracles of God but your response is therefore assuming that Christ died only for Jews which would be in contradiction of John 3:16 in which all of His people throughout the whole world and not simply one nation would be granted faith to be saved.

Jesus said in John 10:11-29 that He laid down His life for His sheep and then said some were not of His sheep. Did Christ die for those who are not His sheep and end up in Hell?

 

[Charlie_2024]

it not good to God Charly he says he takes no pleasure in punishing the wicked

But it's still good that He does, I never mentioned heathenistic pleasure. God laughs at the reprobate, when they plead for mercy

 

[Charlie_2024]

If you just do a search on a Bible hub God changed His mind (relented) regularly, usually from fasting. Duh, common knowledge

No, this is false. No such thing exists in the Bible, back to the drawing board for you

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

But it's still good that He does, I never mentioned heathenistic pleasure. God laughs at the reprobate, when they plead for mercy

this is true Charly but do you know how he laughs.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

No, this is false. No such thing exists in the Bible, back to the drawing board for you

I know scripture inside out Charlie.

I've read the bible in two languages now ànd my father worked in a church.

Do you know what else he says about the wicked


But if a wicked man turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he will save his life. Because he considers all the offenses he has committed and turns away from them, he will surely live; he will not die.

 

[Charlie_2024]

I'm pretty sure I never said this Charley

Well, you said God does bad things to people, bad is evil

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

No, this is false. No such thing exists in the Bible, back to the drawing board for you

he takes no pleasure in punishing the wicked Charly

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Well, you said God does bad things to people, bad is evil

bad is not evil Charly.

Satan is evil

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Well, you said God does bad things to people, bad is evil

what happens if you do a bad job Charly are you evil

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Well, you said God does bad things to people, bad is evil

you know what I meant Charly.

If you was to lose your life Charly that would be terrible

 

[Charlie_2024]

what does any of this has to do with the tulip doctrine

It has everything to do with TULIP, because TULIP changed the world and this thread is all about TULIP

 

[Charlie_2024]

Does God predestine people to be saved first

You know He does, if you deny it you're accusing God of lying

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

You know He does, if you deny it you're accusing God of lying

well another Calvinist said he never here in another thread 2 hours ago.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

It has everything to do with TULIP, because TULIP changed the world and this thread is all about TULIP

No God changed the world.