If The Kingdom isn't here yet then what is JESUS CHRIST a King of?

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Charlie24

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Oct 31, 2021
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You seem to be avoiding my question. Is it possibly because you can't find a literal verse?

Revelation is a VISION. The angel interprets some of it--but all of it is symbols which SIGNIFY something else. 1000 year reign signifies his current reign since the heaven and earth are destroyed along with all the unbelievers after the judgment--it will be at the blink of an eye if we have to have a reference point in time--INSTANTANEOUS and then after that we will have a new heavens and new earth.

Please do provide the literal verse supporting your position.

Philippians 3:20
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Matthew 25:31-46
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, ...
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
Hebrews 9:28
So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.
Revelation 1:7
Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.
John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
Revelation 22:12
“Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay everyone for what he has done.
Colossians 3:4
When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. ...
LOL, I'm not avoiding your question, I'm explaining what I believe!

I think we will agree that Christ literally came to this earth some 2000 years ago. There is nothing in scripture that even suggests that His Second Coming is not also literal.

Matt. 25:31-33

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left."

Show me in scripture where this Second Coming and His sitting on His throne on this earth is not literal!
 

Laura798

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Jun 6, 2020
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I'll show you the literal reign of Christ on this earth when you show me it's to be taken spiritually!

I'm a dispensationalist, that is where we part ways, Laura! I believe in the literal interpretation of scripture until it becomes obvious it's not to be taken literally.
Charlie all fanaticism and false doctrine come from the isolation of bible verses--it is clear, based on what the bible says literally about the return of Christ that He is not staying on this earth and that He is currently ruling and reigning in His Heavenly Kingdom--we the believers are His subjects. Again--please provide several literal verses that support your position in other books of the bible other than Revelation which is a VISION filled with symbolic imagery and language.
 

Charlie24

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Oct 31, 2021
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Charlie all fanaticism and false doctrine come from the isolation of bible verses--it is clear, based on what the bible says literally about the return of Christ that He is not staying on this earth and that He is currently ruling and reigning in His Heavenly Kingdom--we the believers are His subjects. Again--please provide several literal verses that support your position in other books of the bible other than Revelation which is a VISION filled with symbolic imagery and language.
That Laura, was Jesus Christ speaking of His Second Coming and taking possession of His throne on this earth!
 

Laura798

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Jun 6, 2020
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LOL, I'm not avoiding your question, I'm explaining what I believe!

I think we will agree that Christ literally came to this earth some 2000 years ago. There is nothing in scripture that even suggests that His Second Coming is not also literal.

Matt. 25:31-33

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left."

Show me in scripture where this Second Coming and His sitting on His throne on this earth is not literal!
the throne of His GLORY--it is not a literal throne--oh dear me....:rolleyes:

Well--I guess even the apostles had a problem with taking things too literally--but at least they finally got it!

5 When they went across the lake, the disciples forgot to take bread. 6 “Be careful,” Jesus said to them. “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

7 They discussed this among themselves and said, “It is because we didn’t bring any bread.”
8 Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees."--Matthew 16

"
9 The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.[a])

10 Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”

11 “Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”

13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

15 The woman said to him, “Sir, give me this water so that I won’t get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.”

16 He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.”

17 “I have no husband,” she replied.

Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband. 18 The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.”

19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”

21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”

26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”

The Disciples Rejoin Jesus
27 Just then his disciples returned and were surprised to find him talking with a woman. But no one asked, “What do you want?” or “Why are you talking with her?”

28 Then, leaving her water jar, the woman went back to the town and said to the people, 29 “Come, see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Messiah?” 30 They came out of the town and made their way toward him.

31 Meanwhile his disciples urged him, “Rabbi, eat something.”

32 But he said to them, “I have food to eat that you know nothing about.”

33 Then his disciples said to each other, “Could someone have brought him food?”

34 “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. 35 Don’t you have a saying, ‘It’s still four months until harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. 36 Even now the one who reaps draws a wage and harvests a crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. 37 Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. 38 I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.”"--John 4
 

Charlie24

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Oct 31, 2021
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the throne of His GLORY--it is not a literal throne--oh dear me....:rolleyes:

Well--I guess even the apostles had a problem with taking things too literally--but at least they finally got it!

5 When they went across the lake, the disciples forgot to take bread. 6 “Be careful,” Jesus said to them. “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”

7 They discussed this among themselves and said, “It is because we didn’t bring any bread.”
8 Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees."--Matthew 16


"
9 The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.[a])


10 Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”

11 “Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”

13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

15 The woman said to him, “Sir, give me this water so that I won’t get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.”

16 He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.”

17 “I have no husband,” she replied.

Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband. 18 The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.”

19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”

21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”

26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”

The Disciples Rejoin Jesus
27 Just then his disciples returned and were surprised to find him talking with a woman. But no one asked, “What do you want?” or “Why are you talking with her?”


28 Then, leaving her water jar, the woman went back to the town and said to the people, 29 “Come, see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Messiah?” 30 They came out of the town and made their way toward him.

31 Meanwhile his disciples urged him, “Rabbi, eat something.”

32 But he said to them, “I have food to eat that you know nothing about.”

33 Then his disciples said to each other, “Could someone have brought him food?”

34 “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. 35 Don’t you have a saying, ‘It’s still four months until harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. 36 Even now the one who reaps draws a wage and harvests a crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. 37 Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. 38 I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.”"--John 4
Say what you will, His glory is literally revealed on His Throne in Jerusalem for all men to see at that time!
 

Laura798

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Jun 6, 2020
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That Laura, was Jesus Christ speaking of His Second Coming and taking possession of His throne on this earth!
Nope. can't be on this earth since it's going to be destroyed after the judgment. It's a 'judgment' throne--again imagery used --it help people to better understand the greater spiritual principal by visualizing it in their mind--that is why pictures in a book are so helpful.
 
Jan 14, 2021
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Rom. 11:25-27

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

When Paul said ALL of Israel shall be saved, he meant ALL of Israel will be saved.

Who is Israel? Paul plainly tells us they are "Jacob." The natural seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob! This rules out the Muslims!

God has now a remnant of Jacob, but for the most part Jacob (Israel) is in unbelief!

How will Jacob be saved? Paul also tells us, "there shall come out of Sion the Deliverer." The deliverer is Jesus Christ!

At the Second Coming (when the Deliverer comes) ALL of Jacob will be saved when they see Him!
Incorrect.

Paul never said "all of Israel" he states that "all Israel will be saved" but in Romans 9:6 he explained that not all of Israel are Israel and further elaborates that the promises through Abraham and Israel weren't unfulfilled or in vain, they just were only counted through those in Christ.

"Of Israel" =/= "Israel"
 

Laura798

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Jun 6, 2020
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Nothing will satisfy you, I've been doing this for over 25 years with those who adhere to Covenant Theology.
Nothing? :D

All I'm asking for is a few literal verses that say in plain language that Christ is going to reign on the earth 1000 years.

..and... still...waiting....:whistle:........:coffee:...............:unsure:............................:sleep:

ps and not in Revelation
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
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Incorrect.

Paul never said "all of Israel" he states that "all Israel will be saved" but in Romans 9:6 he explained that not all of Israel are Israel and further elaborates that the promises through Abraham and Israel weren't unfulfilled or in vain, they just were only counted through those in Christ.

"Of Israel" =/= "Israel"
If you have studied behind any of the great theologians you would know that when Paul said, "not all of Israel are Israel" He was referring to "Jacob." His name was changed to "Israel" because of his faith in the coming Messiah.

Paul is saying that "all of Israel are not "Israel" in that they are not in the faith as was Jacob, (Israel).

In other words as pointed out by the theologians, Israel is not saved nationally as they thought by being given the Law.
 

Laura798

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Jun 6, 2020
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If you have studied behind any of the great theologians you would know that when Paul said, "not all of Israel are Israel" He was referring to "Jacob." His name was changed to "Israel" because of his faith in the coming Messiah.

Paul is saying that "all of Israel are not "Israel" in that they are not in the faith as was Jacob, (Israel).

In other words as pointed out by the theologians, Israel is not saved nationally as they thought by being given the Law.
Good Lord, Charlie. I know this was addressed to Jocund, but I feel compelled to respond.

This has got to be one of the most convoluted responses I have read on this forum. Jacob is still Jacob. The tribe of Israel is named after Jacob's new name--below explanation of his new name. You are isolating verses and adding your own personal commentary--or that of some false teacher--this idea cannot be supported anywhere in scripture.


(please do give us the name of these 'theologians' I would very much like to look them up as I'm sure others would also)


Why Did God Change Jacob's name to Israel?

After Jacob’s confession to God (Gen. 32:27), the Lord did something rather unexpected: He changed Jacob’s name to Israel, meaning “he who struggles or strives with God.” The name Israel is given to Jacob because, in a sense, Jacob had striven with God and with people (v. 28). After God touched and dislocated Jacob’s hip, Jacob was no longer able to continue wrestling. The only thing he could do was cling to God (v. 26). In his weakness, Jacob asked for and received blessing from the Lord (vv. 26, 29). Herein resides the vital lesson that God’s people must learn in every generation: Jacob’s victory was not the result of his own strength and effort but came through desperate weakness. He clung to God until blessing was acquired.
It is only when we stop wrestling and start clinging to God that we become strong and prevail. Paul may have had this in mind when he penned these words: “When I am weak, then I am strong” (2 Cor. 12:10).

Romans 9, The children of the Promise

"I speak the truth in Christ--I am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit--2I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart.3For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race,4the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises.5Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! [1] Amen.6It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.7Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." [2]8In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring."
 

Mofastus

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May 23, 2019
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Mostafus--I know you certainly didn't intend to, but you prove my point with some of the verses you're quoting here, for example,

"Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;"

The speck and the beam in the eye have nothing to do with exposing false doctrine in the church--I have proven your ideas wrong, but because of PRIDE which Christian Chat is full of, you twist scripture to somehow prove your point, rather than admit your 'believe in [any] Jesus' nothing else matters' idea is wrong.

"Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall."--Proverbs 16:18
ma'am I gave my opinion on eschatology and not to you, and it remains my opinion, whether you think it's wrong and want to fly off on a tangent of your wrong and I'm right at me is your choice, as well if you chose that my post proves your point, I'm happy for you. I never needed to be right in the first place, judge me as you choose to do so, but apparently what you're accusing me of "you twist scripture to somehow prove your point", you have again now done yourself. and the scripture I used wasn't thrown at you, but an attempt of why I gave my opinion, and I gave my opinion because of what I clearly stated in my opinion, not needing to be right as well and not using scripture to show I was right, it was your post that prompted me to use the scripture I did post, of which you implied that again I was wrong and with an accusation that it's my pride, and I have a haughty spirit, to prove your own opinion. I enjoy brother David Tree's involvement in the forum's I would hope he knows that, and I'm not concerned about his denominational affiliation either, my only concern are the wholesome words of Jesus Christ in which we are all exhorted to remain in, so again my opinion wasn't the issue at all. And I apologize if I have offended you in any way, as clearly, in my opinion, had nothing to do with you to begin with. but as with my first post of my opinion from the start, by all means, carry on.
as it remains all about Jesus for me.
 

Charlie24

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Oct 31, 2021
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Good Lord, Charlie. I know this was addressed to Jocund, but I feel compelled to respond.

This has got to be one of the most convoluted responses I have read on this forum. Jacob is still Jacob. The tribe of Israel is named after Jacob's new name--below explanation of his new name. You are isolating verses and adding your own personal commentary--or that of some false teacher--this idea cannot be supported anywhere in scripture.

(please do give us the name of these 'theologians' I would very much like to look them up as I'm sure others would also)


Why Did God Change Jacob's name to Israel?

After Jacob’s confession to God (Gen. 32:27), the Lord did something rather unexpected: He changed Jacob’s name to Israel, meaning “he who struggles or strives with God.” The name Israel is given to Jacob because, in a sense, Jacob had striven with God and with people (v. 28). After God touched and dislocated Jacob’s hip, Jacob was no longer able to continue wrestling. The only thing he could do was cling to God (v. 26). In his weakness, Jacob asked for and received blessing from the Lord (vv. 26, 29). Herein resides the vital lesson that God’s people must learn in every generation: Jacob’s victory was not the result of his own strength and effort but came through desperate weakness. He clung to God until blessing was acquired.
It is only when we stop wrestling and start clinging to God that we become strong and prevail. Paul may have had this in mind when he penned these words: “When I am weak, then I am strong” (2 Cor. 12:10).

Romans 9, The children of the Promise

"I speak the truth in Christ--I am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit--2I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart.3For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race,4the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises.5Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! [1] Amen.6It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.7Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." [2]8In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring."
Yep, typical response from the covenant theology conspirators!
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Oh, OK, Grandpa, I must be wrong! Can you explain why God gave only the Law to Israel and why He chose and created this people for His Son to be born through this people? Why did God choose Israel, what was their purpose? Why were the Gentile nations left out of His original plans?
Yes. I know its hard for you to fathom. But I showed you how easy it is to see.
 

Charlie24

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Oct 31, 2021
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Yep, typical response from the covenant theology conspirators!
Not for you, Laura, for there is no explanation, but for the others.

Concerning Paul saying "they are not all Israel who are of Israel" he first says in Rom. 9:4 "who are Israelites? Then he speaks of being given the Law, the service of God, and the Promises.

Then in vs 5, he refers to "the fathers" who are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob whom the Christ would come through. In vs 6 he says for they are not all Israel, which are of Israel.

Here is the clencher, vs 7,

"Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called."

Paul is saying here what the theologians said about nation salvation for the Jews, "they are not children (saved) because of the fact of being the natural seed of Abraham!"

Israel believed they were already saved by the fact of being the descendants of Abraham, given the promises, given the Law, etc.

Paul is saying they are not saved by that fact and will be rejected.

Isaac was given the birth right and it was passed down to his son, Jacob (Israel). Through the faith of Jacob (Israel) they are Israel.
 

iTheophilus

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Oct 28, 2021
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That Laura, was Jesus Christ speaking of His Second Coming and taking possession of His throne on this earth!
Rev. 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.​

Here comes one those angels from chapter 16 again. Do you think it was the same one who came and talked with John in verse 1 of chapter 17? Perhaps, but it could just as well be one of the other six who gives this magnificent tour. And so the angel told John, who as far I know hasn't taken a lunch break yet, to come and he will show him the beautiful bride, the Lamb's wife.
[10] And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,​

Next we will read about the beauty and splendor of this great city, the holy Jerusalem. And since Almighty God dwells there, guess what? We will be reading about HEAVEN! It's coming here!
We are now in the eternity. The Millennium is over. All that which offends has been consumed away for ever and ever in the lake of fire, to be remembered no more. And our Father has prepared a great and beautiful city which He now brings to earth and places squarely on the spot He picked out to be the headquarters of the universe for all eternity, Jerusalem (read Ezek. 16).

Earlier we saw John being carried away in the spirit by one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues to be given a grand tour of the Eternal City, New Jerusalem.

[10] And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,​

Do you look forward to this great city? Our forefathers did! Yes, they were well aware of the Eternal City and the very vision of it increased their faith. Abraham looked forward to it:
Hebrews 11:10​
For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.​

And not only Abraham, but Enoch and Noah and all the patriarchs desired that heavenly city.
Hebrews 11:16​
But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for He hath prepared for them a city.​

And now we are privileged to be given a first hand description of some of the beauty and details of that great city. Of course its number one attribute is that our Father will be there.
Rev. 21:11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;​

The glory of God is that beautiful multicolored sparkling rainbow, the "shekinah" glory, that surrounds our Father. Do you remember we read of that glory and the jasper, etc. in the 4th chapter when John described God's throne and He that sat on it?
Rev. 4:3​
And He that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.​

And so it is written that our Father will be with the beautiful new city descending out of heaven.
Rev. 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:​

We are reading the actual description of the eternal city. Think about it! It is so easy for us to read parts of the Bible such as this as if it was story, and miss the reality of what is written. This is for real. It shall descend from heaven and contain twelve gates, one for each of the 12 Tribes of Israel. And the rest of the nations will be there also as we shall see in verse 24.
[13] On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.​

All that Revelation tells us is that there will be twelve gates, three on each of the four sides, and they will contain the names of the tribes of Israel. If we want more details all we have to do is read the rest of the Bible, it's all there. Ezekiel, for example, tells us whose name is on which gate:
Ezekiel 48:31-35​
And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi. [32] And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan. [33]And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun. [34] At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali.​

And the name of the entire city for all of eternity is "The LORD is there", Yahveh Shamma.
[35] It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The LORD is there.​
That Laura, was Jesus Christ speaking of His Second Coming and taking possession of His throne on this earth!

Yes, Charlie, heaven will be here on earth.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

- Revelation 21:1-5 (KJV)
 

soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
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If The Kingdom isn't here yet then Be Perfect As Your Heavenly Father Is Perfect.
If The Kingdom here yet then Be Perfect As Your Heavenly Father Is Perfect.