If The Kingdom isn't here yet then what is JESUS CHRIST a King of?
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Many Pharisees likely called the Sanhedrin great theologians too. It doesn't make their arguments correct. That said, you are welcome to substantiate your positions and make a case for them.
Scripture is very clear that not all of Israel will be saved:
"Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:" - Romans 9:27 KJV
"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." - Romans 9:6-8 KJV
It is not by flesh that the promise is counted but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. Scripture is also very clear about who counts for the seed:
"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." - Galatians 3:16 KJV
"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." - Galatians 3:26-29 KJV
Those in Christ (Christians) are the children of God and heirs to the promise. Where Moses and Melchisedec were before, Christ is the current high priest of the faith.
Scripture is very clear that not all of Israel will be saved:
"Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:" - Romans 9:27 KJV
"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." - Romans 9:6-8 KJV
It is not by flesh that the promise is counted but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. Scripture is also very clear about who counts for the seed:
"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." - Galatians 3:16 KJV
"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." - Galatians 3:26-29 KJV
Those in Christ (Christians) are the children of God and heirs to the promise. Where Moses and Melchisedec were before, Christ is the current high priest of the faith.
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Hi Itheophilus,
Yes, I'm very familiar with those verses--of course it's obvious by my postings that I do not believe in a millennial earthly kingdom---that is a 1000 year reign of Christ--I have asked for literal verses that say Christ will rule and reign on the earth 1000 years but no one has been able to share those. The verses you've shared are from Revelation of a Vision John sees which is filled with symbolism and strange imagery--some of which the angel interprets, some which is found elsewhere in scripture--others we need wisdom to understand.
There is only one Angel in revelation who speaks to John, not several--I'm not sure what you are talking about there.
"God sent “his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.” Revelatation 1:1-2
The verses you have shared are the New Heaven and Earth--as the current heavens and earth will be destroyed --this is clear from literal scripture.
"By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly." 2 Peter 3:7
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven
This is not what millennials believe--they believes Christ will reign on the PRESENT earth.
Yes, I'm very familiar with those verses--of course it's obvious by my postings that I do not believe in a millennial earthly kingdom---that is a 1000 year reign of Christ--I have asked for literal verses that say Christ will rule and reign on the earth 1000 years but no one has been able to share those. The verses you've shared are from Revelation of a Vision John sees which is filled with symbolism and strange imagery--some of which the angel interprets, some which is found elsewhere in scripture--others we need wisdom to understand.
There is only one Angel in revelation who speaks to John, not several--I'm not sure what you are talking about there.
"God sent “his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.” Revelatation 1:1-2
The verses you have shared are the New Heaven and Earth--as the current heavens and earth will be destroyed --this is clear from literal scripture.
"By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly." 2 Peter 3:7
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven
This is not what millennials believe--they believes Christ will reign on the PRESENT earth.
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Here are just a few verses in Revelation regarding the 1,000-year Millennium, Laura.
Revelation 20:4-6
King James Version
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Revelation 20:4-6
King James Version
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Why do we assume the Apostles were asking JESUS about His second coming in the Olivet Discourse when they didn't even know He was going anywhere at that point (Matt 24:3, Mark 13:4, Luke 21:7)?
"when will these things be" What things? The Temple being destroyed.
Jump to 38:53 if it doesn't already:
"when will these things be" What things? The Temple being destroyed.
Jump to 38:53 if it doesn't already:
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I know the verses in Revelation--these are all symbolic. I had asked previously for literal bible verses that are not in Revelation--so far no responses. In contrast ,there are many literal verses that say Christ is ruling and reigning NOW. That immediately after His Second Coming the present heavens and earth will be destroyed and that at this time He hands over His reign to the Father.
"…23But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him. 24Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. 25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.…"1st Corinthians 15:23-25
Satan is bound now--he was bound when Christ died on the cross--Christ began His reign at His ascension. It is why He is presently called Sovereign Lord. There is no second chance for anyone at His second coming as the judgment happens at that time.
"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves."--2 Peter 2:1
A literal millennial kingdom on our present earth is a destructive heresy.
Please read my previous posts so you better understand my position--no one can post anything that will change my position as the idea of a literal thousand year reign of Christ is antithetical to the gospel message.
"Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”--John 18:36
"…23But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him. 24Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. 25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.…"1st Corinthians 15:23-25
Satan is bound now--he was bound when Christ died on the cross--Christ began His reign at His ascension. It is why He is presently called Sovereign Lord. There is no second chance for anyone at His second coming as the judgment happens at that time.
"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves."--2 Peter 2:1
A literal millennial kingdom on our present earth is a destructive heresy.
Please read my previous posts so you better understand my position--no one can post anything that will change my position as the idea of a literal thousand year reign of Christ is antithetical to the gospel message.
"Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”--John 18:36
There are three types of kingdoms spoken of in scripture. There is the kingdoms of the world, called the nations, the kingdom of the Moses, and the kingdom of the Lord. Each has their own laws. The kingdom of the Moses is replaced by Christ. We are told that we are to live in the world but our true home is with the Lord and our loyalties must be to that kingdom. Just as if we lived in a foreign country, we are to go by their laws, but if we have to choose one kingdom over the other, then we must be loyal to our true kingdom, the kingdom of heaven.
As an example, if the country we lived in declared war on our native country, we would need to deny the laws of the country we live in.
The gospels are full of how to live in the kingdom of heaven. We pray for it to be on earth as it is in heaven in our daily prayer.
As an example, if the country we lived in declared war on our native country, we would need to deny the laws of the country we live in.
The gospels are full of how to live in the kingdom of heaven. We pray for it to be on earth as it is in heaven in our daily prayer.
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Matthew 24:3 "And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of "Thy coming, and the end of the world."
@pittsburghjoe . . . Notice that the word "world" in Greek manuscripts means "aion" meaning "age, or a period of time." Here, it’s clear: Jesus lays forth the seven events that must occur in order for this age to come to a close and Christ (Himself) to return. Simple.
Matthew 24:3 "And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of "Thy coming, and the end of the world."
@pittsburghjoe . . . Notice that the word "world" in Greek manuscripts means "aion" meaning "age, or a period of time." Here, it’s clear: Jesus lays forth the seven events that must occur in order for this age to come to a close and Christ (Himself) to return. Simple.
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Laughable that Christ is ruling on His Throne at the present!
Matt. 22:44
"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?"
God is preparing the Throne for Christ as we speak! Many things must take place in the future before Christ takes His throne on this earth and rules over the nations.
Matt. 22:44
"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?"
God is preparing the Throne for Christ as we speak! Many things must take place in the future before Christ takes His throne on this earth and rules over the nations.
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Mark 1:15 “This is the time of fulfillment. The kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”
The Call of the first Disciples.
Mark 9:1 He also said to them, “Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come in power.”
Col 1:13 He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
1 Thess 2:12 exhorting and encouraging you and insisting that you conduct yourselves as worthy of the God who calls you into his kingdom and glory.
Hebrews 12:28 Therefore, we who are receiving the unshakable kingdom should have gratitude, with which we should offer worship pleasing to God in reverence and awe.
The Call of the first Disciples.
Mark 9:1 He also said to them, “Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come in power.”
Col 1:13 He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
1 Thess 2:12 exhorting and encouraging you and insisting that you conduct yourselves as worthy of the God who calls you into his kingdom and glory.
Hebrews 12:28 Therefore, we who are receiving the unshakable kingdom should have gratitude, with which we should offer worship pleasing to God in reverence and awe.
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You are the salt of the earth is a metaphor, not a symbol--Jesus expands on his meaning, but metaphors are not mysteries. We all can discern the comparison of the two. Revelation is a vision--visions are not metaphors--the imagery is representative of something else. "A symbol is a signifier that communicates something beyond itself"--note that Revelations begins with saying the vision signifies. For example the dragon is not being compared to rulers it represents rulers--so too, the many waters is not compared to people it is representative of people.
In like manner we know based on the rest of scripture the 1000 year reign represents a long period of time--as I said in my other posts every time the number 1000 is used in the bible, it is representative of a great number--such as 'a cattle on a thousand hills'--of course God owns ALL the cattle that have ever existed!
God has given us the Holy Spirit, to discern spiritual things but we also must use the mind he has given us to understand the difference between figurative and literal language--Revelation is a VISION filled with symbols and imagery--some the angel explains, others are symbols we must discern--and we use other scripture to do this, and of course the wisdom he gives us. We should always study what we are taught for ourselves, as the Bereans did, as there is a lot of false teaching out there.
There are too many literal verses in the New Testament as well as Old Testament prophecies that say Christ came once to die, then he comes one other time (called the Second Coming) to judge the world and gather His elect. Immediately after this the heavens and earth are destroyed and there is a new heaven and new earth.
The literal meaning is that Christ has reigned since his ascension and is reigning now. and we are also reigning with Him because he lives in us! Satan was bound at Christ's death--note Revelation says 1000 years for both. This is the plain meaning--again we know this as we compare the rest of scripture. Scripture never contradicts itself.
To believe somehow Christ will rule on earth before the judgment negates the literal verses in scripture. And Jesus himself said "My kingdom is not of this world."
"
8 Dear friends, remember this one thing, with the Lord one day is as 1,000 years, and 1,000 years are as one day. 9 The Lord is not slow about keeping His promise as some people think. He is waiting for you. The Lord does not want any person to be punished forever. He wants all people to be sorry for their sins and turn from them. 10 The day of the Lord will come as a robber comes. The heavens will pass away with a loud noise. The sun and moon and stars will burn up. The earth and all that is in it will be burned up.
11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, you should think about the kind of life you are living. It should be holy and God-like. 12 You should look for the day of God to come. You should do what you can to make it come soon. At that time the heavens will be destroyed by fire. And the sun and moon and stars will melt away with much heat. 13 We are looking for what God has promised, which are new heavens and a new earth. Only what is right and good will be there."--2 Peter 3
In like manner we know based on the rest of scripture the 1000 year reign represents a long period of time--as I said in my other posts every time the number 1000 is used in the bible, it is representative of a great number--such as 'a cattle on a thousand hills'--of course God owns ALL the cattle that have ever existed!
God has given us the Holy Spirit, to discern spiritual things but we also must use the mind he has given us to understand the difference between figurative and literal language--Revelation is a VISION filled with symbols and imagery--some the angel explains, others are symbols we must discern--and we use other scripture to do this, and of course the wisdom he gives us. We should always study what we are taught for ourselves, as the Bereans did, as there is a lot of false teaching out there.
There are too many literal verses in the New Testament as well as Old Testament prophecies that say Christ came once to die, then he comes one other time (called the Second Coming) to judge the world and gather His elect. Immediately after this the heavens and earth are destroyed and there is a new heaven and new earth.
The literal meaning is that Christ has reigned since his ascension and is reigning now. and we are also reigning with Him because he lives in us! Satan was bound at Christ's death--note Revelation says 1000 years for both. This is the plain meaning--again we know this as we compare the rest of scripture. Scripture never contradicts itself.
To believe somehow Christ will rule on earth before the judgment negates the literal verses in scripture. And Jesus himself said "My kingdom is not of this world."
"
8 Dear friends, remember this one thing, with the Lord one day is as 1,000 years, and 1,000 years are as one day. 9 The Lord is not slow about keeping His promise as some people think. He is waiting for you. The Lord does not want any person to be punished forever. He wants all people to be sorry for their sins and turn from them. 10 The day of the Lord will come as a robber comes. The heavens will pass away with a loud noise. The sun and moon and stars will burn up. The earth and all that is in it will be burned up.
11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, you should think about the kind of life you are living. It should be holy and God-like. 12 You should look for the day of God to come. You should do what you can to make it come soon. At that time the heavens will be destroyed by fire. And the sun and moon and stars will melt away with much heat. 13 We are looking for what God has promised, which are new heavens and a new earth. Only what is right and good will be there."--2 Peter 3
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And please finish reading what I wrote. You add "and now is not my kingdom of THIS EARTH."
All who do not believe in a literal millennial reign believe this, so i don't understand your point.
You defend your position without studying the evidence in the rest of scripture--and you respond without reading what I wrote. By the way, I am still waiting for those literal verses elsewhere in scripture (not Revelation)
You don't seem to see the obvious contradictions in scripture to this theology--I suggest praying for God to take off the doctrinal lens that you are filtering scripture with--you are in fact indoctrinated and don't realize how blind you are to the truth--that you are believing a LIE.
And a very dangerous one.
All who do not believe in a literal millennial reign believe this, so i don't understand your point.
You defend your position without studying the evidence in the rest of scripture--and you respond without reading what I wrote. By the way, I am still waiting for those literal verses elsewhere in scripture (not Revelation)
You don't seem to see the obvious contradictions in scripture to this theology--I suggest praying for God to take off the doctrinal lens that you are filtering scripture with--you are in fact indoctrinated and don't realize how blind you are to the truth--that you are believing a LIE.
And a very dangerous one.
And please finish reading what I wrote. You add "and now is not my kingdom of THIS EARTH."
All who do not believe in a literal millennial reign believe this, so i don't understand your point.
You defend your position without studying the evidence in the rest of scripture--and you respond without reading what I wrote. By the way, I am still waiting for those literal verses elsewhere in scripture (not Revelation)
You don't seem to see the obvious contradictions in scripture to this theology--I suggest praying for God to take off the doctrinal lens that you are filtering scripture with--you are in fact indoctrinated and don't realize how blind you are to the truth--that you are believing a LIE.
And a very dangerous one.
All who do not believe in a literal millennial reign believe this, so i don't understand your point.
You defend your position without studying the evidence in the rest of scripture--and you respond without reading what I wrote. By the way, I am still waiting for those literal verses elsewhere in scripture (not Revelation)
You don't seem to see the obvious contradictions in scripture to this theology--I suggest praying for God to take off the doctrinal lens that you are filtering scripture with--you are in fact indoctrinated and don't realize how blind you are to the truth--that you are believing a LIE.
And a very dangerous one.
There is a millennial reign of Christ on this earth, but it's not now, it's yet to come when God brings all things to pass for the Kingdom to be brought forth.
Yes, ok, I'm blind and can't see afar off!
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And here is where you show how very diabolical this theology is--you say:
"Laughable that Christ is ruling on His Throne at the present!"
You have no idea that what you are saying is BLASPHEMY. To deny Christ's present reign is to deny His finished work on the Cross--to deny his finished work is to deny HIM!
This is why millennialsim is a 'doctrine of demons' spoken of in scripture.
How does Christ hand over His reign to the father if He is not reigning now? And why does scripture then say we also reign with Him now?
1 Corinthians 15:24-28
Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
Ephesians 2:4–6 (KJV 1900)
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
"3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs."--Hebrews 1:3-4
Mark 9:1
And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.”
Matthew 3:2
“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
How does the following work with The Kingdom (for a 1000 years) after the last trump?
1 Corinthians 15:50-52
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 Corinthians 15:50-52
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
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