Jesus is not coming back. He already did in 70 A.D.

[tourist]

Revelation is dated to 81-96 John would have had held the book 12-15 yrs to have written it before 70.....
Then what would be the point.....none of it would mean anything because
The KINGDOM would have already COME....
Plus it says....
SATAN STILL SITS IN HIS SEAT AT PERGAMOS.....
NOT POSSIBLE......If he had already been sent for a swim in the LOF!😀 View attachment 194896

The entire OP was nonsense. I agree with your estimation on when John wrote the book of Revelation.

 

[cv5]

You are quoting Zechariah 14: 4. That is symbolic language. It is not literal. If you go through chapters 12 through 14 of Zechariah you will see the phrase "In that day" used repeatedly. It's talking about 70 A.D.

That day would be the "last day" when the resurrection and judgment would take place and the rivers of living water would flow from Jerusalem. It happens in spring time and winter, day and night, because the gospel has been being preached for 2,000 years. It is not literal but has a spiritual application.

In verse 7 it says it shall be one day known to the Lord. The same day and hour that Jesus did not know but only the Father in Matthew 24: 36. Jesus knew it would happen in His generation but He did not know the day or the hour when He was on earth.

Well...if rivers aren't rivers then the Mount of Olives splitting per Zech 14 could be an English muffin for all we know.

Wrong again!

 

[cv5]

Revelation is dated to 81-96 John would have had held the book 12-15 yrs to have written it before 70.....
Then what would be the point.....none of it would mean anything because
The KINGDOM would have already COME....
Plus it says....
SATAN STILL SITS IN HIS SEAT AT PERGAMOS.....
NOT POSSIBLE......If he had already been sent for a swim in the LOF!😀 View attachment 194896

"Then what would be the point.....none of it would mean anything because
The KINGDOM would have already COME...."

Good point.

 

[SIMON55]

I think it's pretty plain John in his Revelation states who was responsible for the the blood of prophets etc,

Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

We know that the RC church was not guilty of the blood of the apostles when John tells them to rejoice:

Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

No...Its pretty plain that a book written in 81-96 has no past tense mention of events you claim happen in 70
AND SAYS SATAN STILL SITS ON HIS THRONE AT PERGAMOS.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

~70 AD, and onward..

If this so when did the Jews get punished for shedding the blood of the prophets?

 

[Dino246]

The Apostle John wrote Revelation in 81-96
It is absurd to consider even a brief moment.....that Christ-God would be speaking to the seven Churches and not mention My Kingdom has now come.......
In fact the Church at Pergamos HE TELLS THEM SATAN STILL KEEPS HIS SEAT OF POWER THERE NOT POSSIBLE IF HE WENT FOR A SWIM IN THE LOF ALREADY
THIS PRETERIST STUFF IS PLAYING WITH FIRE THAT CAN GET YOU REMOVED FROM THE LAMBS BOL FOR FOOLING WITH REVELATION
BEST CHECK YOURSELF AND LEAVE IT ALONE !!!!!!

Using ALL CAPS is the internet equivalent of SHOUTING. When used sparingly it can add emphasis to a point. When used consistently, it invites ignoring.

The "evidence" you supplied is circumstantial at best. It certainly doesn't clinch the argument. It doesn't cite what the evidence is, and only seems to identify the a priori position of the writer.

Your warning is an irrelevant appeal to fear. Your position could be called for exactly the same reasons so it is doubly invalid.

 

[Roku23]

Well...if rivers aren't rivers then the Mount of Olives splitting per Zech 14 could be an English muffin for all we know. Wrong again!

Matt 16: 27-28, "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.28 Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Do you have an answer for this verse? It tells you when Jesus comes back. It is you who are wrong and deny the Scriptures. Nevertheless, God bless you.

 

[Dino246]

No...Its pretty plain that a book written in 81-96 has no past tense mention of events you claim happen in 70
AND SAYS SATAN STILL SITS ON HIS THRONE AT PERGAMOS.

However, if Revelation were written about 65 AD, your point would be... pointless.

 

[SIMON55]

Rev 18:24 "And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on earth.”

Now the word prophets might be referring to both Old Testament prophets and to New Testament Apostles.
See the wording is that the blood was found [buried] in her. Just like a secret from the past.
"All who have been slain on the earth" this encompasses all those killed over thousands of years.

The Roman Catholic Church is a manifestation of the 2nd beast of Revelation, which is of the 1st beast of Revelation, which is of the beasts of Daniel. It's all a succession of sorts.

The beasts are all different and yet are all one in the same.
This is how the Roman Catholic Church of present (chp. 17 Whore of Babylon) and of the future (chp. 18 The Fall of Babylon) has in her the blood of the apostles and prophets from the past.

Chapter 18 Babylon = Chapter 17 whore of babylon = The Roman Catholic Church

RCC-1st Beast Little Horn
Daniel 7:25 not "2nd "
2nd Beast of earth-USA
REASON FOR BLOOD....
PAGANISM- -SUNGOD-ORIGINAL TO-BABYLON OF OLD-INHERENT-ROMAN PAGANISM-SUNGOD-SAME DIFFERENCE-ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH-SUN DAY-SAME DIFFERENCE-
It carries all the way through
NO DISCONNECT....BABEL BABYLON ROME TO AMERICA

 

[Locutus]

Nobody can say for certain when the Revelation was written - the internal evidence is pre temple destruction as John says it would be trampled underfoot therefore it was still standing when he wrote:

Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

42 months is the approximate length of the 66-70 AD sack by the Romans.

Kenneth Gentry - free pdf - he looks at both cases for an early and late date for the book of revelation and concludes a pre-70 AD writing:

http://www.garynorth.com/freebooks/docs/pdf/before_jerusalem_fell.pdf

 

[cv5]

Matt 16: 27-28, "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.28 Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Do you have an answer for this verse? It tells you when Jesus comes back. It is you who are wrong and deny the Scriptures. Nevertheless, God bless you.

Ahwatukee has answered your inquiry in a florid and comprehensive manner....

We all have.

 

[cv5]

However, if Revelation were written about 65 AD, your point would be... pointless.

Lol. Irrespective of the date of the writing, The Apostle John undoubtedly lived beyond 70AD. His comments and testimony on the preterist 70AD second coming is notably absent.

Wrong again preterists!

 

[cv5]

Lol. Irrespective of the date of the writing, The Apostle John undoubtedly lived beyond 70AD. His comments and testimony on the preterist 70AD second coming is notably absent.

Wrong again preterists!

And just think! The old aged faithful Apostle John was not Raptured at 70AD. Pity! Must have sinned and got left behind eh?

Chew on that preterists and plese let us know your thoughts.

 

[dcontroversal]

I remember reading about those in the end tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine.........................the last 1949 years of history not only proves the OP wrong, but also any and all that say the end came and went in 70 A.D.

 

[SIMON55]

However, if Revelation were written about 65 AD, your point would be... pointless.

However.....it wasn't Johns students said 81-96 Iraesenious and Polycarp and the rest of the church fathers the Catholics authored the preterism published it 1614 in defense of the Protestant Reformation.......ok
NOW LET ME PROVE HOW STUPID THEY ARE TO YOU WITH A SCREENSHOT FROM THEIR WEBSITE......
The New American Catholic Bible......Introduction to
REVELATION.....

 

[Roku23]

Ahwatukee has answered your inquiry in a florid and comprehensive manner....We all have.

No, he didn't answer it and I noticed, once again, neither did you. He tried to claim the Mount of Transfiguration which the verses deny as a possibility.

And just think! The old aged faithful Apostle John was not Raptured at 70AD. Pity! Must have sinned and got left behind eh? Chew on that preterists and plese let us know your thoughts.

1 Thess 4: 13-17 is not a rapture of the living up into the sky. What is the context of this passage? It begins in verse 13:

1 Thess 4: 13, " But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.

The context is about Christians who have died. They were going to be resurrected and united to God in heaven to be with Christ forever when He came back with His kingdom. The living were not going to be taken away with them. Here are the verses:

1 Thess 4: 16-17, "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord."

The Greek word for "meet" is "apantesis". It is a technical word. It means to meet that person and escort them to their destination. It is used 3 times in the New Testament.

Matt 25: 6, "And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!" He was headed to the wedding hall, not going back where He came from.

Acts 28: 15, "And from there, when the brethren heard about us, they came to meet us as far as Appii Forum and Three Inns. When Paul saw them, he thanked God and took courage."

They escorted Paul the rest of the way into the city that he was headed too. There goes your rapture theory about the Lord taking people off the planet to heaven. That word for "meet" means to escort to the destination.

When Jesus came back in 1 Thess 4: 17 He was headed to Jerusalem in judgment and was coming in the clouds and they escorted Him there. He did not take the living ones to heaven.

The reason most of christianity has missed this is they don't understand the spiritual nature of the kingdom and think physically.

 

[SIMON55]

The entire OP was nonsense. I agree with your estimation on when John wrote the book of Revelation.

Not my estimate dated by early church fathers and two students of John Iraesinious or sumthin and Polycarp and so the RCC published the Jesuit priest written Preterism in 1614 in response to the Protestant reformers Identifying them as the Little Horn Beast of Daniel 7
Soo.....right now you can go in their website and the introduction to Revelation in The New American Catholic Bible shows. the date 81-96 so they hang themselves.

 

[FriendlyTalk]

THE DAY IS STILL AT HAND.

Roku23,
You say He is not coming back.
That He already has.

The bible does not teach that,
and I will point out some of your personal beliefs that also proves your error,
which you also combine with Scripture, to make it fit your belief.​

"It is never literal in the Bible. That is why so many Christians think there is a "burning up" of the universe at Christ's alleged future coming. They get this from passages like 2 Peter 3. They don't understand the symbolic language in Scripture and take it literally."

The return of Jesus Christ is an event that will happen in the coming future.
This event will be literal, and it will be seen.

If you do not believe this, you lack faith.

Do not be deceived!

The Spirit of God warns about a falling away in the last days.
What will a doctrine like the one you bring cause His servants to do,
and the ones that seek truth?
(Read Timothy 4.)

It will lead them astray from truth.

This will make the servants of the Lord think HE is NOT returning, as you say.
WHEN HE DOES, they will be caught unprepared,
if they listen to your doctrine, and wander away from the truth.

Why look for one that does not return?


You lack faith, and your doctrine is in error.

JESUS says that the one that believes on Him will do greater works than He did.
Do you believe this?
Is it not literal?


John 14:12-14
King James Bible

"12 Truly, truly,
I tell you, whoever believes in Me will also do the works that I am doing.
He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
13 And I will do whatever you ask in My name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it."


- God made this literal earth.
He has the power to burn it up too. -
2 Peter 3:11-14 King James Bible


________________________________________________

"It is never literal in the Bible. That is why so many Christians think there is a "burning up" of the universe at Christ's alleged future coming. They get this from passages like 2 Peter 3. They don't understand the symbolic language in Scripture and take it literally."

That's because the resurrection hadn't happened at that point. It didn't happen until 70 A.D. How would Hymaneus fool anybody if they had the understanding of the "rapture" that the church has today? That bodies fly up out of the ground? That wouldn't have fooled anybody. They knew it was a spiritual resurrection. You weren't going to see it with your eyes.

Paul delivered Hymaneus and Alexander up to Satan,
so it is clear that they were in some serious errors.

​

What happened when Jesus was crucified, and when He died at the cross?

Believers arose from their graves, in their physical bodies.
Do you believe that?


Matthew 27:50-53 King James Bible
"50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. "


Is it never literal?​

Acts 2:19-21 King James Bible

"And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."


The sun is still turning into darkness, and the moon into blood.
These things will happen before the day of the Lord,
and people can still call on the name of the Lord to be saved.

This photo shows the moon during a total lunar eclipse, seen from Los Angeles, Sunday Jan. 20, 2019. (AP Photo/Ringo H.W. Chiu)
https://www.foxnews.com/science/super-blood-moon-eclipse-stuns-in-remarkable-pictures

(The world sees it now.
It will see it then.)

The day is still at hand.
Still hope.


Matthew 24:27 King James Bible
27 For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.


Also written in Matthew 24:26-31 King James Bible​

The Return of the Son of Man
(Mark 13:24-27; Luke 21:25-28)

26 So if they tell you, ‘There He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.
27 For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days:

‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’

30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn.

They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

31 And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the

heavens to the other."


(Literal things, as literal as also shown in the above image.)​

The Ascension
Visible, and literal...


Acts 1:9-11 King James Version
"9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."
​

-

"The Greek word is "Genea" for generation. It is used 43 times in the New Testament. It never means a race of people. There is a different Greek word for that. Jesus uses the word generation, or the phrase "this generation", 25 times in the New Testament. He uses it 3 times in the 3 accounts of the Olivet Discourse so we won't count those since we are debating their meaning. The other 22 times Jesus uses the word for generation it always means His contemporaries. There are no exceptions."

1 Corinthians 3:18-23 King James Version
18 Let no one deceive himself.
If any of you thinks he is wise in this age, he should become a fool, so that he may become wise.
19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness.”
20 And again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”

21Therefore stop boasting in men.
All things are yours,
22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephasc or the world or life or death or the present or the future.
All of them belong to you,
23 and you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God.



You can either trust what is plainly written, or you can not.
You've been given His word, and it is infallible.
The King James Bible contains pure words, from God.
Do you need man to teach you?

Do you have to be schooled in Greek, to know God, and what He wants to show you?
No.

1 John 2:27 King James Version (KJV)
"27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

Do you trust in this?​

Some things, of many,
and several others in this chat has pointed out your error.

You should be careful with that doctrine...​

 

[cv5]

No, he didn't answer it and I noticed, once again, neither did you. He tried to claim the Mount of Transfiguration which the verses deny as a possibility.



1 Thess 4: 13-17 is not a rapture of the living up into the sky. What is the context of this passage? It begins in verse 13:

1 Thess 4: 13, " But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.

The context is about Christians who have died. They were going to be resurrected and united to God in heaven to be with Christ forever when He came back with His kingdom. The living were not going to be taken away with them. Here are the verses:

1 Thess 4: 16-17, "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord."

The Greek word for "meet" is "apantesis". It is a technical word. It means to meet that person and escort them to their destination. It is used 3 times in the New Testament.

Matt 25: 6, "And at midnight a cry was heard: ‘Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!" He was headed to the wedding hall, not going back where He came from.

Acts 28: 15, "And from there, when the brethren heard about us, they came to meet us as far as Appii Forum and Three Inns. When Paul saw them, he thanked God and took courage."

They escorted Paul the rest of the way into the city that he was headed too. There goes your rapture theory about the Lord taking people off the planet to heaven. That word for "meet" means to escort to the destination.

When Jesus came back in 1 Thess 4: 17 He was headed to Jerusalem in judgment and was coming in the clouds and they escorted Him there. He did not take the living ones to heaven.

The reason most of christianity has missed this is they don't understand the spiritual nature of the kingdom and think physically.

OK. So no real rivers, mountains, Temples, Rapture, heavenly ma

It was THE "Day of the Lord". Joel Chapter 2 talks about it and Peter quotes it in Acts 2:

Acts 2: 17-21, "
‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
21 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.’

Jesus uses the same apocalyptic language (that I put in bold) in Matthew 24: 29 in reference to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. It is never literal in the Bible. That is why so many Christians think there is a "burning up" of the universe at Christ's alleged future coming. They get this from passages like 2 Peter 3. They don't understand the symbolic language in Scripture and take it literally.

Other good examples are Isaiah 13: 9-10 which talks about the destruction of Babylon. Isaiah 34: 4,5 which talks about the destruction of Edom and Ezekiel 32: 7-9 which talk about the destruction of Pharoah and Egypt.

It is not the end of the physical universe but the end of the universe/world for those people. The language is poetic.

OK. So tell us....was the Exodus symbolic and a spiritual allegory?
Judgments upon Egypt....poetic exaggation? Flood a quaint myth? Sodom? All fanciful tales meant to teach us a lesson but ultimately a deception?

 

[Ahwatukee]

The Bible says the resurrection and judgment happened in A.D. 70. The Bible is absolutely clear about this. Any eschatological system that moves Jesus' second coming from that point is proven false by Scripture. I choose to believe what the Bible says and not what man teaches me. You guys are entitled to your opinions and I hope you can respect mine.

Sir! You are still not giving us any proof! Your presenting scriptures without any record of the events taking place. Let me give you and example of prophecy given and prophecy fulfilled.

Prophecy: Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgind will be with child and will give birth to a son, and she will call Him Immanuel.

Fulfillment: So the angel told her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. Behold, you will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to give Him the name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David, and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever. His kingdom will never end!”

“How can this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”

Prophecy: "For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol, nor will You let Your Holy One see decay." - Psalms 16:10

Fulfillment: But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. He is not here; He has risen, just as He said! Come, see the place where He lay. Then go quickly and tell His disciples, ‘He has risen from the dead and is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see Him.’ See, I have told you.”

Prophecy: For dogs surround me; a band of evil men encircles me; they have pierced my hands and feet. I can count all my bones; they stare and gloat over me. They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing. - Psalms 22:16-18

Fulfillment: When they had crucified Him, they divided up His garments by casting lots. And sitting down, they kept watch over Him there.

You see how that works? We can read the prophecy and its fulfillment has been recorded.

Nothing that you say makes any difference unless you can show us the record of the fulfillment of the events that you are claiming as already having taken place. For example:

Prophecy: "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Regarding the event above, surely such a great event of Jesus returning to the earth so that every eye will see Him arriving on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And the sending out of His angels, would have been recorded as having taken place, yet we have no such information. In fact, Peter says that people will say "Where is the promise of His coming?” they will ask. “Ever since our fathers fell asleep, everything continues as it has from the beginning of creation.”

In further support of this having not taken place, Matt.24:30-31, which you keep quoting as already taken place, is a prophecy regarding the end of the age, while clearly the age is still on-going. In fact Jesus said, "I will build my church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it" and the church is still in the process of being built. This is still further supported by the fact that, when Jesus sends out His angels, it will be to first gather the wicked to burn them and then to gather the wheat who will be those great tribulation saints who make it through the entire tribulation period alive.

This whole event is synonymous with Rev.19:11-21 which reveals Jesus returning to the earth to end the age and His bride/church following behind him on white horses (v.14). That said, the following is another event which will take place as Jesus is returning to the earth:

"Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out in a loud voice to all the birds flying overhead, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings and commanders and mighty men, of horses and riders, of all men slave and free, small and great.”

And all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

Surely a great number of birds being gathered to eat the flesh of kings, commanders and their armies, who would have gathered together to make war against the Lord would have been recorded by the world. Yet, not a peep!

If you really want to know the truth, be big enough to admit that none of these events have taken place and stop being deceived by the preterists and amillennialist.