R
Can anyone help me understand these verses?
- Thread starter RebeccaAutumn
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
R
Ralph-
Guest
"you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you"
How is that not obvious truth?
I'm tired of this 'the Bible doesn't really mean what it says' Christianity.
Christianity has been destroyed by people who don't want it to mean what it plainly says.
R
Ralph-
Guest
Okay, good. I was expecting this to be your response. Let's look at the passage again:
11It is a trustworthy statement:
For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
12If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us;
13If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
2 Timothy 2:11-13
You're saying that being denied by Christ simply means still being saved but not reigning with Him as a kind of punishment, a loss of reward, for denying Him. So you're saying he does deny you when you deny him but it just means something else, not you losing your salvation.
So now all of a sudden He CAN deny Himself even though vs. 13 says he can't. But when I say being denied by Christ for denying Him is in regard to salvation you use vs. 13 to claim he cannot deny you.
R
Ralph-
Guest
You say a person CAN go back to the sinning life of unbelief and they are still saved. You need to wake up. That's making grace a license to sin. Paul did not preach that gospel. Condemnation is deserved for those who said Paul's gospel was a 'do evil that good may result?' gospel because he didn't teach that gospel. But the accusation is quite fitting for your's. You do say you can do evil and good will result (that 'where sin abounds grace abounds all the more' thing) because you can not lose your salvation even if you go back to the sinning life of unbelief.
By the way, I still want to know your take on 1 John 2:19 which used to mean in 'once saved always saved' that if you left you were never really saved to begin with. But I guess it doesn't mean that now because so many people in 'once saved always saved' circles are saying you don't lose your salvation when you believe and are saved but then fall away into unbelief and that you were saved before you fell away and remain saved while in unbelief. So I'm curious what you do with 1 John 2:19 since you have the testimony of believing, then falling away, then coming back and saying you were saved all the while because you can never lose your salvation no matter what happens.
Final Exhortations 2Peter 3:15-17
…15Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. 16He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17Therefore, beloved, since you already know these things, be on your guard so that you will not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure standing.…
Yeah, along with the pink ponies and flying pigs.LOLExactly!! You see it too
You should know......you left off the part of the verse that SETS CONTEXT......Ralph, you are one of the most deceptive people on this site....end of story!
Nice twist of what I said, your modus operandi......like I said above...You are one of the most deceptive people on this site...
R
Ralph-
Guest
Sure. It means I have no religious affiliation other than being on the Protestant side of the great divide between Catholicism and Protestantism.
I don't think there is a denomination whose official doctrine addresses all the issues and addresses them 100% accurately. So my doctrinal construct is composed of the doctrines that line up with the Bible, not just the ones crammed into a single denomination's statement of faith.
R
Ralph-
Guest
Boooo!
I had a legitimate comeback to your.....your.....doctrine and you didn't like that I showed you to be wrong and so now I'm a deceiver. I've done a lot of witnessing and so I'm very familiar with the fact that this is how unbelievers react to the truth.
Don't call me deceptive just because I showed your interpretation of 'denied' to be in contradiction to what the passage says.
You don't handle it very well when you get your doctrinal butt handed to you.
R
Ralph-
Guest
@UnderGrace , @dcontroversal ,
"6 but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house—whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end."-Hebrews 3:6
How is a person still the house of Christ if they don't hold fast their confidence and hope until the end? The author is making it very clear that being the house of Christ is conditional on holding fast your confidence to the very end. But you say there are no conditions at all or that would be works.
"6 but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house—whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end."-Hebrews 3:6
How is a person still the house of Christ if they don't hold fast their confidence and hope until the end? The author is making it very clear that being the house of Christ is conditional on holding fast your confidence to the very end. But you say there are no conditions at all or that would be works.
U
UnderGrace
Guest
You "hold fast" Ralphie, but if you think you are "holding fast" to your salvation you hold fast in vain God already has that covered.
Like it was written to the Hebrews move on to the meat,
However, how can one move onto the meat when one hasn't received and understood the milk of God's word.
You bind yourself sadly whether in earnest or from falsity hard to say but I pray others are more discerning.
R
Ralph-
Guest
Through my faith I'm holding on to he who saves me. Why do you ignore the scriptures that plainly say you have to do that to be saved?
R
Ralph-
Guest
No, serious, I'm not cordoned off into a doctrinal denomination. It would be impossible to label me in accordance with a certain denomination. But I guess you're going to say not staying in the lines of a denomination is a denomination. No it's not.
R
Ralph-
Guest
@UnderGrace[/USER]
"6 but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house—whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end."-Hebrews 3:6
Don't you realize that you are literally saying this verse is not true? You're saying I DON'T have to hold fast my confidence in the hope of the Gospel to be the house of Christ.[/QUOTE]
"6 but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house—whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end."-Hebrews 3:6
Don't you realize that you are literally saying this verse is not true? You're saying I DON'T have to hold fast my confidence in the hope of the Gospel to be the house of Christ.[/QUOTE]
U
UnderGrace
Guest
Yes cling to Him for a righteous walk, a victorious walk, sanctification, we believe and are conformed to His image.
If you think you are "holding on" "to continue to be saved" you are lying to yourself and God.
R
Ralph-
Guest
What is it about being the house of Christ that you do not understand?
Are people who aren't the house of Christ saved?
U