R
Ralph-
Guest
John made it clear that you continue in the Son and the Father IF you continue in the doctrine of Christ.
You can't stay in Christ and reject the word of the gospel. It's that simple.
Can anyone help me understand these verses?
- Thread starter RebeccaAutumn
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
You can't stay in Christ and reject the word of the gospel. It's that simple.
^ 2 John 1 [bsb] -
Beware of Deceivers
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, refusing to confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh [not confessing Jesus Christ coming [present tense, participle] in flesh]. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch yourselves, so that you do not lose what we have worked for, that you may be fully rewarded. 9 Anyone who runs ahead without remaining in the teaching of Christ does not have God. Whoever remains in His teaching has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you but does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your home or even greet him. 11 Whoever greets such a person shares in his evil deeds.
Beware of Deceivers
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, refusing to confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh [not confessing Jesus Christ coming [present tense, participle] in flesh]. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch yourselves, so that you do not lose what we have worked for, that you may be fully rewarded. 9 Anyone who runs ahead without remaining in the teaching of Christ does not have God. Whoever remains in His teaching has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you but does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your home or even greet him. 11 Whoever greets such a person shares in his evil deeds.
^ This is how one is to tell the difference between saved and not-saved persons: what they say about JESUS (many talk about "God"... "I have God" or "I know God" or "me and God are tight!" or even "God told me [this or that], and God led me [here or there]"... [but there is evidenced in their lack of anything whatsoever about JESUS, they HAVE NOT GOD])
R
Ralph-
Guest
So much for staying saved then even though you don't remain in the teaching of Christ.
Don't you realize you and others teach that you can believe whatever you want or nothing at all and you are still saved? John doesn't agree with you here. You have to remain in the teaching of Christ to remain in the Father and the Son.
R
Ralph-
Guest
Not true in your doctrine.
You say I can decide to not believe anything after being saved and I'm still saved. So what I say about Jesus proves nothing according to your doctrine. As we see, John does not agree with you.
I didn't say people who are saved believe "whatever they want". They have believed what God said is the testimony concerning His Son.
1 John 5 -
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. [nowhere else]
I think you are missing the point of the entire context.
Here's what I say about the doctrine of Christ:
[Paul's prayer for them] "having been filled with the fruit of righteousness, WHICH IS BY MEANS OF JESUS CHRIST, unto the glory and praise of God." [see also Rom7:1-4.. and try not to think he's merely giving a lesson on marriage here]
...whereas others want to suggest we fill ourselves with it by our own means [even as believers].
Did you read the 1 John 5 verses I just posted?
Abundantly clear?
What a nonsensically biased interpretation!
Before one is indoctrinated with the belief that, "it's impossible for one to lose their salvation", they should be able to accept the scripture as it is written.
What is abundantly clear from the scripture in question is, only mature Christian who have gone through the prerequisites set forth in Hebrews 6, can indeed lose their salvation.
That is what the scripture is saying and it's just that simple, if you can accept what is written, as it is written.
How idiotic to deny that eternal life is eternal. Typical denial of the sufficiency of Gods grace. Demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge of context both biblically and historically.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
This is written to and for the mature Christians, not the babes Christ. No pun intended.
It is saying that it is possible for a mature Christian who has met the five prerequisites set forth in the scriptures above, to lose their salvation.
I have better than 50 computer pages of both scripture and interpretations that show without question that it is indeed possible for a mature Christian to lose their salvation.
Those who are of the truth will be able to receive the truths in God's word.
^ and yet, the other day, it was "the babes" who could lose their salvation (hence the reason THEY were "warned" 
[not] )
[not] )I'm not denying that the eternal life is eternal what I am denying is that it's not conditional.
I have given scripture after scripture, showing beyond all doubt that salvation, like the love of God, is indeed conditional.
But what does one do with a person who refuses to believe planes can fly, even when they see them flying, simply because they either don't want to believe what they are seeing, and therefore have to explain it away, as it might be too painful for them to accept, or because they were taught that by someone they look up to, like a child does with their parents.
this is not like something in Australian young man said to my daughter who told him no, asking her if that was code for yes.
The scripture means exactly what it is saying. The scripture in question is no metaphor, nor is it an allegory, and there is no code but it is saying exactly what is written, in a plain, simple, and easy to understand language.
That's certainly didn't come from me because I have never said that.^ and yet, the other day, it was "the babes" who could lose their salvation (hence the reason THEY were "warned"
I have stated repeatedly, that it is only the mature Christians who can lose their salvation.
I have shown scripturally that it is the mature Christian and not the baby Christian that can lose their salvation.
I have told the story multiple number of times about God yelling at me for saying that it was not possible for a child or baby to go to heaven because of what I thought the scripture said.
I thought I knew what John 3: 5 said until I was corrected by a very loud and stern voice.
I thought the scripture said except a person be born again they shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven, but the voice corrected me and said except a man be born again, and he stressed the word man, shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
And then the voice said very clearly, "babies are not men".
That was almost three decades ago and I haven't changed my mind since.
In fact, I have found a great deal more information in Scripture proving or verifying the same thing concerning baby Christians.
It might be true or a fact that I lack knowledge of History but not scripture concerning the subject in question.
What also might be true is, that I do not look at history when it comes to interpreting scripture. I look to God and at scripture to interpret scripture, NOT man. Because history tells me that many things have been misinterpreted in the Bible.
So here's what I see from John 3:3 -
https://biblehub.com/text/john/3-3.htm
...and here's what I see about the word "G509 - anōthen" (translated as "again" in the kjv) -
https://biblehub.com/greek/509.htm
[Acts 13:33 "this day have I begotten thee"--"33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee."]
https://biblehub.com/text/john/3-3.htm
...and here's what I see about the word "G509 - anōthen" (translated as "again" in the kjv) -
https://biblehub.com/greek/509.htm
[Acts 13:33 "this day have I begotten thee"--"33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee."]
Mans love is conditional but Gods love is not conditional.
Eternal life cannot be eternal if it is conditional. Conditional life is not what Christ died to make available to mankind. God I snot capricious and does not vary or change. When God says its eternal life it is eternal.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
R
Ralph-
Guest
Freegrace 'once saved always saved' doctrine says I can get saved and then believe that Christ did not come in the flesh and I will still be saved because salvation is a free gift conditioned on nothing and so it can't be taken away from you no matter what you do or say or believe. John doesn't agree with you.