Can anyone help me understand these verses?

[dcontroversal]

/

Verses 14 and 17 plainly tell us what "unless you believed in vain" means in vs. 2 means. It means that the faith that they really did have has been in vain if it's not really true that Christ is risen from the dead:

"14and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain."-1 Corinthians 15:14

"17and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins."-1 Corinthians 15:17

How are you missing Paul's plain explanation of what "unless you believed in vain means"? You can't ignore the plain words of the passage. No interpretation needed. He plainly tells us what would cause the faith they had in the gospel he preached to them to have actually been in vain.

And you are too dense to understand that the whole statement must be taken...their faith is in vain because they DID NOT BELIEVE IN THE RESURRECTION..........try to wrap your head around that.......and this is covered MORE than once in the scriptures.....IT IS THE TENANT of Christian belief....

You can believe in Christ, believe in God, but if you do NOT believe in the RESURRECTION your faith is VOID and without EFFECT

WOW.....man your really do stretch and reject truth to embrace a false gospel

 

[Ralph-]

context, verb tense

Now, put context and verb tense to work and answer my question:

According to this passage is the person who is no longer holding fast the word of the gospel saved?

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. "-1 Corinthians 15:1-2

 

[Ralph-]

And you are too dense to understand that the whole statement must be taken...their faith is in vain because they DID NOT BELIEVE IN THE RESURRECTION..........try to wrap your head around that.......and this is covered MORE than once in the scriptures.....IT IS THE TENANT of Christian belief....

You can believe in Christ, believe in God, but if you do NOT believe in the RESURRECTION your faith is VOID and without EFFECT

WOW.....man your really do stretch and reject truth to embrace a false gospel

They did believe in the gospel. The one Paul preached to them. Paul plainly affirms this. But now they are being told that the resurrection did not really happen. Your doctrine says they are still saved even if they stop believing what they first believed about a risen savior. That contradicts what Paul says. You've been dead wrong claiming that you can stop believing in the gospel and you will still be saved. Paul said IF you continue in what he taught you are saved. But you say you are saved even if you don't continue in it.

 

[dcontroversal]

They did believe in the gospel. The one Paul preached to them. Paul plainly affirms this. But now they are being told that the resurrection did not really happen. Your doctrine says they are still saved even if they stop believing what they first believed about a risen savior. That contradicts what Paul says. You've been dead wrong claiming that you can stop believing in the gospel and you will still be saved. Paul said IF you continue in what he taught you are saved. But you say you are saved even if you don't continue in it.

Actually I am not....

if we BELIEVE NOT "after belief" HE ABIDES FAITHFUL because HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF<----this one verse written unto actual believers who ARE saved proves your dogma of losing faith/salvation is as false as can be.....CHRIST cannot DENY his righteousness, blood and FAITH that has been applied unto one who is saved....and MY God starts, finishes and COMPLETES the work of faith he BEGINS IN ALL...

Your JESUS "the one not in the bible" DOES NOT finish or complete his work of faith he begins, but rather is too weak and inept because he NEEDS your help....and this equates to a working for false dogma with no power......and that IS WHAT you teach and MOST in here can see that....the only one's who don't are the FEW that believe the same drivel......

 

[Ralph-]

The following is what you believe and espouse and peddle....

dcontroversal said:
he rejects most truth in favor of Cainology

I do not favor working to earn a declaration of justification in any way shape or form. Justification is through trusting in Jesus. And last time I checked that's not a work of the infamous works gospel in my Bible. Apparently it is in yours. The least you could do is after all these months of claiming it's in the Bible you could give me chapter and verse where it says 'believing' is a work of the damnable works gospel. Back your claim up.

and a wishy washy salvation that can be lost or revoked by a weak god that cannot keep his promises

You erroneously think the promise is conditional on nothing at all. When in reality it is conditioned on believing. But you have come to this misguided conclusion that since grace is a free gift and not conditioned on works that it's not conditional on anything at all, not even believing.

...and or throws us away because we may fall and fail.....

Because you stop believing. Get the argument right.

a god that needs our help to remain saved....

He needs your trust for you to remain saved. Stop trusting in that which saves you and you are no longer saved by that which saves. Salvation is conditional on believing.

...a god that fails in his misson!

His mission is to save everyone who believes and trusts in him for salvation. That mission will succeed. His mission is not to keep ex-believers saved despite their return to unbelief.

 

[Ralph-]

Your JESUS "the one not in the bible" DOES NOT finish or complete his work of faith he begins, but rather is too weak and inept because he NEEDS your help....and this equates to a working for false dogma with no power......

Will you stop ranting and just post the verse that says believing in the gospel equates to working to earn your salvation? Can you do that. Come on, shut me up with this verse that says this. I challenge you.

 

[Ralph-]

if we BELIEVE NOT "after belief" HE ABIDES FAITHFUL because HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF<----this one verse written unto actual believers who ARE saved proves your dogma of losing faith/salvation is as false as can be.....CHRIST cannot DENY his righteousness, blood and FAITH that has been applied unto one who is saved....and MY God starts, finishes and COMPLETES the work of faith he BEGINS IN ALL...

You major in not rightly dividing the word of God. Look at the part you're ignoring:

"12If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us;

13If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself."-1 Timothy 2:12-13

This will probably go right over your head, but let's try it anyway. Notice, there has to be difference between denying Christ and being faithless. How do we know that? The outcome of each is different. You can be faithless and he will not deny you. But if you deny him he will deny you.

What that means is you can be faithless and still believe in Christ. All Christians do that. We all sin in unfaithfulness to the Lord but we believe and trust in Christ for forgiveness for that sin. What we can't do is stop believing in Christ for forgiveness. That's called denying him. He will deny you if you do that.

 

[FirstLovedByHim]

Exactly, who would ever be able to keep themselves saved, such pride!!

Well, the only designed robots have spoken! Of those created out of the same lump this particular group is the only ,designed without free will. These same robots would say Mary is not Immaculate ,even after she abides. They therefore claim SHE could reject HER RESTORATION because NO ONE could be without sin. You people are the most ill contrived, most hypocritical sect walking. You design for YOURSELVES imaginary doctrine and are the first- to be quick to say someone as Blessed as Mother Mary is JUST A VESSEL, yet you all- are above even scripture. As I said the doctrine of swine.

 

[Ralph-]

Back to my question, dcon:

According to this passage, if you are no longer holding fast the word of the risen savior, the gospel, are you saved?

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain."-1 Corinthians 15:1-2

 

[FirstLovedByHim]

That is what he does best.....starting with the bible and go from there.....Mr. Twisty.......

No only your doctrine is twisted.

 

[epostle]

“For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-6‬ ‭ESV‬

It means it is impossible to be restored to repentance while in the state of unrepentance. It does not mean repentance is impossible.
It clearly refutes John Calvin's "once saved always save" invention.
I think for Christians to lose their salvation is very rare, but Scripture says it is POSSIBLE, which is why we must persevere to the end. We get the prize when the race is finished, not in the middle.

​

 

[FirstLovedByHim]

Exactly, who would ever be able to keep themselves saved, such pride!!

No one ever said that they are the reason they are saved. But you do have a choice to hold onto or let go of the Lords hand. It is His hand which has pulled all out of sin, not ones own as your answer implies. Christ does not pull ANYONE kicking and screaming into heaven. It is the free choice to ABIDE once SAVED AND RESTORED. Not complicated for those who know the simple meaning of words.

Again you defend your lot which is in sin and not abiding because you all reject half of the lessons of the Word which CLEARLY addresses rejecting your restoration- which is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Yes people too- blasphem by never accepting truth at all, unto their death. ALL REJECTING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, once truth is known is blasphemy of it.

 

[FirstLovedByHim]

No one ever said that they are the reason they are saved. But you do have a choice to hold onto or let go of the Lords hand. It is His hand which has pulled all out of sin, not ones own as your answer implies. Christ does not pull ANYONE kicking and screaming into heaven. It is the free choice to ABIDE once SAVED AND RESTORED. Not complicated for those who know the simple meaning of words.

Again you defend your lot which is in sin and not abiding because you all reject half of the lessons of the Word which CLEARLY addresses rejecting your restoration- which is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Yes people too- blasphem by never accepting truth at all, unto their death. ALL REJECTING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, once truth is known is blasphemy of it.

You are not even fully restored. How do I know -all restoration comes with the spiritual gifts. I am sure none of your movement have these gifts in the simple fact you are always rejecting parts of scripture to fit your narrative.

 

[UnderGrace]

@Ralph-

You can let me know when you actually want to look at this verse I am not wanting to get into a debate with you I want to discuss what Paul is saying in context of the historical Corinthian church.

I personally do not believe he is addressing false believers when he discusses "believing in vain"

Just you and me Ralphie if you start to get side track again I am out. If you bring up Calvinism, Free Grace, Hypergrace, OSAS I am also out, none of the matters when trying to discern truth within context of an unbiased open mind and heart.

Let me know

 

[FirstLovedByHim]

@Ralph-

You can let me know when you actually want to look at this verse I am not wanting to get into a debate with you I want to discuss what Paul is saying in context of the historical Corinthian church.

I personally do not believe he is addressing false believers when he discusses "believing in vain"

Just you and me Ralphie if you start to get side track again I am out. If you bring up Calvinism, Free Grace, Hypergrace, OSAS I am also out, none of the matters when trying to discern truth within context of an unbiased open mind and heart.

Let me know

Anyone can take certain verses and ignore the full content of the Word to fit their own narrative. Even satan can do that. This still does not change the meaning of Hebrews 6. Cherry picker. And what you choose to pick from the tree and put in your basket you try to present as the full tree?????? Go figure. This tactic is of the father of lies. Well half a truth is the greatest lie of all, for it is meant to deceive. Even he could not speak in a bold face lie, for that would not deceiver the seeker. To MALIGN that is his guise, and this is done by cherry picking some truth to try and validate his lie. You straight up, malign!

 

[UnderGrace]

It means it is impossible to be restored to repentance while in the state of unrepentance. It does not mean repentance is impossible.
It clearly refutes John Calvin's "once saved always save" invention.
I think for Christians to lose their salvation is very rare, but Scripture says it is POSSIBLE, which is why we must persevere to the end. We get the prize when the race is finished, not in the middle.

View attachment 187259​

Salvation is not a prize it is a gift.

And do not criticize John Calvin until you have at least read his work.

 

[UnderGrace]

No one ever said that they are the reason they are saved. But you do have a choice to hold onto or let go of the Lords hand. It is His hand which has pulled all out of sin, not ones own as your answer implies. Christ does not pull ANYONE kicking and screaming into heaven. It is the free choice to ABIDE once SAVED AND RESTORED. Not complicated for those who know the simple meaning of words.

Again you defend your lot which is in sin and not abiding because you all reject half of the lessons of the Word which CLEARLY addresses rejecting your restoration- which is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Yes people too- blasphem by never accepting truth at all, unto their death. ALL REJECTING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, once truth is known is blasphemy of it.

If you understood the scripture you would know that abiding and salvation/justification are separate and until you come to grasp this truth you will never understand scripture nor how God works in the life of the born again believer.

And your "ad hominem" attacks on various people on various threads would indicate to any careful observer an insecurity in your own doctrine .

 

[Ralph-]

@Ralph-

You can let me know when you actually want to look at this verse...

Lay it on me.

I personally do not believe he is addressing false believers when he discusses "believing in vain"

Neither do I, so you dont' need to address this.

What you need to do is explain what Paul means when he says you are saved (present tense) IF you are holding fast (present tense) the word he preached and how it is that you do not have to be presently believing to be presently saved.

Lay it on me. I'm listening.

 

[Ralph-]

If you understood the scripture you would know that abiding and salvation/justification are separate

You are so wrong.

Read these:

"9Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God "-2 John 1:9

"12 ...he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life (eternal life-see vs.11)."-1 John 5:12

See it? If you don't continue in the word of Christ you do not have God. If you do not have God you do not have eternal life. Please don't tell us this really doesn't mean what it says.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

“For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-6‬ ‭ESV‬

IMO,It Is Impossible could be translated to “If It were possible”.