Tongues???

[Enow]

I agree with Trof.... not to belittle "tongues", but that scripture seems to indicate how the Spirit will pray FOR us, with words that we cannot even utter... in other words, we pray, imperfectly, but the Spirit tells the Father what we really MEANT to say.

Pick a Bible version... any Bible version and read John 16:13 at this link at Bible Gateway of 5 Bible versions to read.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John 16:13&version=KJV;NIV;NASB;ESV;RSV

The scripture says the Holy Spirit cannot speak on His own authority nor on His own initiative, or on His own accord, but speaks what He hears; meaning as the NIV has it, speaks only what He hears. That means He does not have His own words to speak for He can only speak what He hears.

Now let that sink down into your ears, because the Holy Spirit CANNOT give His intercessions to the Father.

That is where the King James Bible of Romans 8:26-27 comes in.

Romans 8:[SUP]26 [/SUP]Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

#1. The word itself is used insead of Himself indicates that the Holy Spirit is NOT making His intercessions by Himself even though He has them.

#2. What kind of intercessions are those? The silent kind as in He does not utter them as "with groanings which cannot be uttered"... that means the groanings are not heard because they are not uttered. Period.

So then the reader is left with the question of how does the Holy Spirit serve as a means for His unspeakable intercessions to be known to the Father? That is what verse 27 is for because Another gives the Spirit's intercessions to the Father for the Holy Spirit.... and it is done according to the will of God of there being only one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Let's take the verse in pieces so you can follow the Truth in His words.

Romans 8:[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he that searcheth the hearts....

So Who searches the heart?

Hebrews 4:[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

So Who is the Word of God? Jesus Christ, as specified as the Son of God.

Whom are we naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with Whom we have to do? Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

Got that? Verse 27 is talking about Jesus Christ, the Son of God now. That is the "he" spoken of in that verse.

So Jesus Christ, the Son of God that searches our hearts IS THE ONE that knows the mind of the Spirit.

Romans 8:[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit,because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Now let's look at the ending of that verse 27.

Romans 8:[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Why is that important? That truth confirms that verse is about Jesus Christ, the Son of God as other parts of scripture confirms that truth.

1 Timothy 2:[SUP]5 [/SUP]For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Hebrews 7:[SUP]25 [/SUP]Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Only Jesus Christ, the Son of God is at that throne of grace to give our intercessions, the Spirit's unspeakable intercessions, and the Son's own intercessions to the Father so that when the Father says "Yes," the Son answers the prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answered prayers.

That is why this is in according to the will of God, because....

#1. Jesus Christ is the only way any one can come to God the Father by in prayer; not by the Holy Spirit.

John 14:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me

#2. Only the Son answers the prayers, because the Father is glorified only in the Son for answering prayers.

John 14:[SUP]13 [/SUP]And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.[SUP]14 [/SUP]If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

So that means any one praying to the Holy Ghost to come and fall on them to bring them tongues which comes with no interpretation; that was NOT the Holy Ghost answering that prayer.

It is in according to the will of God that only Jesus gives ALL intercessions to the Father so that when prayers are answered, the Father is glorified in the Son for saying "Yes" to the Son to permit the Son to answer that intercession.

So the Holy Spirit does not tell the Father what we really MEANT to say. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, does that for Him.

 

[notuptome]

I think a better place to start is to ask whether the Bible teaches speaking in tongues and interpretation built up the local body in the first century. If the answer is 'yes', then we can agree on that. It is enough that we know that it does to accept it as legitimate. At least we should be able to agree on that in a first century context.

If you asked me how the gift of exhortation edifies the body as opposed to the gift of teaching, I could give some thoughts on that, but I haven't got a really clear teaching on that from scripture I can give you off the top of my head. I do know from scripture that an interpreted message in tongues edifies the body.

If I can't point to some really specific way that it edifies differently from all the other spiritual gifts, that doesn't change the fact that Paul says that it edifies the body and that his instructions (commandments of the Lord) require that the church allow it...done properly in the proper order. Wanting to know how each gift edifies differently might be a legitimate question, but whether we know the answer to that question or not, we should be willing to accept ministry through the gifts and to exercise them as the scriptures teach.

Well here again is an example of were we differ in a significant manner. Tongues and interpretation can only build up or edify the assembly if they are the means by which the word of God is taught to the believers. Paul makes this clear in his writings to Timothy the young pastor. There is only the mention of the word of God and no mention of tongues in the way Timothy is to run the church.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

The church is built on Christ. The church has her foundation in the word of God.

Tongues could be useful in bridging language barriers but it is the word of God that needs to be communicated for edification and for evangelism.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[presidente]

Pick a Bible version... any Bible version and read John 16:13 at this link at Bible Gateway of 5 Bible versions to read.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2016%3A13&version=KJV;NIV;NASB;ESV;RSV

The scripture says the Holy Spirit cannot speak on His own authority nor on His own initiative, or on His own accord, but speaks what He hears; meaning as the NIV has it, speaks only what He hears. That means He does not have His own words to speak for He can only speak what He hears.

Now let that sink down into your ears, because the Holy Spirit CANNOT give His intercessions to the Father.

That is where the King James Bible of Romans 8:26-27 comes in.

Romans 8:[SUP]26 [/SUP]Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

#1. The word itself is used insead of Himself indicates that the Holy Spirit is NOT making His intercessions by Himself even though He has them.

#2. What kind of intercessions are those? The silent kind as in He does not utter them as "with groanings which cannot be uttered"... that means the groanings are not heard because they are not uttered. Period.

So then the reader is left with the question of how does the Holy Spirit serve as a means for His unspeakable intercessions to be known to the Father? That is what verse 27 is for because Another gives the Spirit's intercessions to the Father for the Holy Spirit.... and it is done according to the will of God of there being only one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Let's take the verse in pieces so you can follow the Truth in His words.

Romans 8:[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he that searcheth the hearts....

So Who searches the heart?

Hebrews 4:[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.[SUP]14 [/SUP]Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

So Who is the Word of God? Jesus Christ, as specified as the Son of God.

Whom are we naked and opened unto the eyes of Him with Whom we have to do? Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

Got that? Verse 27 is talking about Jesus Christ, the Son of God now. That is the "he" spoken of in that verse.

So Jesus Christ, the Son of God that searches our hearts IS THE ONE that knows the mind of the Spirit.

Romans 8:[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit,because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Now let's look at the ending of that verse 27.

Romans 8:[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Why is that important? That truth confirms that verse is about Jesus Christ, the Son of God as other parts of scripture confirms that truth.

1 Timothy 2:[SUP]5 [/SUP]For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;Hebrews 7:[SUP]25 [/SUP]Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Some of your arguments are tenuous, but supposing one accepted all your arguments, what does this have to do with speaking in tongues? If Christ has many things to say, including things that can be said in prayer,



This argument you made does not present any evidence that individuals cannot pray in tongues thorugh a gift of the Holy Spirit. I Corinthians 14 confirms that individuals can pray in tongues.


The Spirit is also involved in a wide variety of prayers, not just the kind that cannot be uttered.


Ephesians 6:18
Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;


Jude 1:20
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Only Jesus Christ, the Son of God is at that throne of grace to give our intercessions, the Spirit's unspeakable intercessions, and the Son's own intercessions to the Father so that when the Father says "Yes," the Son answers the prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answered prayers.

That is why this is in according to the will of God, because....

#1. Jesus Christ is the only way any one can come to God the Father by in prayer; not by the Holy Spirit.

John 14:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me

#2. Only the Son answers the prayers, because the Father is glorified only in the Son for answering prayers.

John 14:[SUP]13 [/SUP]And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.[SUP]14 [/SUP]If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Are you saying that the Father does not answer prayers? You show verses about Jesus doing what is asked of the Father in His name. I hope we all believe those verses. But the Bible also teaches that the Father answers prayer.

John 15
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. (KJV)

So that means any one praying to the Holy Ghost to come and fall on them to bring them tongues which comes with no interpretation; that was NOT the Holy Ghost answering that prayer.

I grew up Pentecostal, and I've heard it taught, as the Bible says, that Jesus is the one who baptizes with the Holy Ghost, and that we pray to the Father in Jesus name. I know some of the Charismatics or people in the third waves have a lot of songs addressed to the Spirit and some evangelicals seem to think it doesn't matter if you address your prayers to Christ or to the Holy Spirit. But we are taught to pray a certain way in scripture.

And of course, there are several passages on prayer, not just one.

As far as who answers prayers, God can choose to answer prayers that don't follow the right format or style.

 

[presidente]

Well here again is an example of were we differ in a significant manner. Tongues and interpretation can only build up or edify the assembly if they are the means by which the word of God is taught to the believers. Paul makes this clear in his writings to Timothy the young pastor. There is only the mention of the word of God and no mention of tongues in the way Timothy is to run the church.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

The church is built on Christ. The church has her foundation in the word of God.

Tongues could be useful in bridging language barriers but it is the word of God that needs to be communicated for edification and for evangelism.

I Corinthians 14 implies that prayers spoken in church are to be edifying, because Paul asks if someone blesses with the Spirit, he gives thanks well, but the other is not edified. So our prayers of thanksgiving are supposed to edify others. I Corinthians 14:26 lists several things that can be edifying, a psalm, doctrine, tongues, revelation, and interpretation.

 

[88]

You said I can not pray in the Spirit without the gift.
That is a lie.
I pray in the Spirit all the time in English.

**** I believe Paul made a distinction---- I will in the understanding (English)----- I will pray in the Spirit (tongues)---- I have been doing this for 40 years---- the edification is wonderful---- God opens the Scriptures more---- I receive direction from God ect...

 

[presidente]

Oh ho. But tongue speakers are saying, we have another drink of the Holy Spirit to get this tongue ( hence the another baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues ) OR for those that believe we receive the Holy Spirit with tongues as separate from salvation, then they are claiming they had that drink of the One Spirit over other believers that do not have that drink.

You don't need to think of things as competitive or compare yourself with others.

So it is in contrast I say what Paul meant in 1 Corinthians 12:13 , especially in relations to spiritual gifts which has the one baptism of the Holy Ghost at our salvation Romans 8:9 ) has nothing to do with believers seeking spiritual gifts when He is already in them.

When people are baptized, they are soaked thoroughly. You can have the Holy Spirit, the seal of the Spirit, like it says early in the book of Galatians, but still need to be filled with the Spirit. Later in Galatians, Paul tells his readers who had the seal of the Spirit, to be filled with the Spirit.

Who are YOU supposed to pray to for spiritual gifts? Jesus Christ at that throne of grace. Jesus answers prayers.

We are supposed to pray to the Father in Jesus' name.

John 14:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me....[SUP]13 [/SUP]And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.[SUP]14 [/SUP]If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.


Asking the Holy Spirit to answer by falling on saved believers in bringing tongues or other sensational signs in the flesh like falling down is not the Holy Spirit answering those prayers BECAUSE that is not His JOB !!!!

You can probably find someone who addresses prayers to the Holy Spirit. I believe in praying to the Father in Jesus' name.

Growing up in the Pentecostal movement, I heard teaching about how the Holy Spirit glorifies Christ, and how the Spirit operates among those who emphasize Jesus rather than emphasizing the Spirit (something along those lines, probably not worded quite right.) In reading about early Pentecostal history, I read how this was an emphasis in the early 1900's, that is emphasis on Jesus, on the name of Jesus, etc.

Some Charismatic and 'Third Wave' (if you don't know what that means) in the 1980's are addressed to the Holy Spirit.

Climbing up another way around Jesus to the Holy Spirit for that tongue is why it never comes with interpretation but is a stranger's voice.

The Holy Spirit is not a theif or a robber. The Bible does not teach that it is a sin to pray to the Holy Spirit. I can actually only find one post-ascension prayer addressed to Jesus, and that was someone who was talking to Jesus while he saw a vision of Him. But would you say it is actually a sin to pray to Jesus?

There are other calls to be sober rather than be drunk with wine that does not call for a continuous filling of the Spirit.

Okay, but Ephesians still says to be filled with the Spirit.

Ephesians is a call to remain filled with the fruits of the Spirit rather than sow to the works of the flesh by being drunk with wine.

The passage transitions to talking about speaking to yourselves in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. The passage implies that it is possible for a believer not to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Based on Jesus' teachings, we know that we can ask the Father for the Holy Spirit, and we do not have to fear about getting something bad.

But.. you are reading your experience and that tongue which comes with no interpretation into scripture, thereby twisting scripture to support your tongue

First of all, you don't know what my experiences are. Secondly, the fact that there can be tongues without interpretation that is a legitimate gift is 100% clear in I Corinthians. Paul told the person who had such a tongue if there were no interpreter to be silent in the assembly, and to speak to himself and to God. If the gift he was talking about was not the genuine gift, he would not have given instructions to interpret it.

That is all it takes to lead believers into thinking something that has already happened in the past when they are singing it as if it is currently something a believer is to do, and so when it does happen, no one, not you, nor me, can tell them that was not the Holy Spirit when He was already in them by faith in Jesus Christ as promised.

Lot's of words and phrases here in this quote. Lots of ideas going in different directions. The meanign is unclear.

What you are saying is of the same tree that is producing evil fruits.

No, straw man does not mean evil fruit. A straw man is when you argue against an idea that the other person or other people don't believe in in the first place. Like if I were to respond to you as if you believed in wife-beating or vowhen you weren't arguing for these things, those would be a straw man arguments.

That methodology of focusing on the Holy Spirit is how anyone seeks to be filled by the Holy Spirit;

No, there are people who seek for Jesus to baptize them with the Holy Ghost. The Assemblies of God is the world's largest Pentecostal denomination. This is a quote from one of the articles on their website:

"It is Jesus who baptizes believers in the Holy Spirit. Seekers should focus their attention on Him rather than on an experience."

My neighbor across the street was sharing with me one day how she was reading the Bible at her kitchen table when the Holy Spirit came over her, bringing tongues. She went on to testify that moment was when she was saved because she got it all at once.

Considering Acts 10, do you have a problem with that? I'd say she needs to get baptized with water. That's what Peter wanted to do when that happened.

Is it any wonder why when believers that hear that, seek to receive the Holy Spirit in the same way and when they do, start preaching that if you do not speak in tongues, you do not have the Holy Spirit, and therefore you are not saved?

Do you say that after reading Acts 10? It's your reasoning process. I didn't think that when I read the second-hand testimony in your post.

An evil fruit.

What your reasoning process? Do you consider Acts 10 to be an evil fruit? The woman was reading her Bible. The Gentiles in Acts 10 we hearing the word preached aloud. In both accounts, individuals or an individual spoke in tongues.

Then I had asked her what she was reading that led her to believe in Jesus Christ. She did not know what I had meant as she went on to explain that she went to her pastor to ask her about that incident and the pastor pointed to something in the Book of Acts. Then she told me that others in her church experienced the same thing doing other stuff, wherein she rolled her eyes at that thus impressing upon me what those other stuff was incredulous that led her to disbelieve their testimonies. And no, she did not care to share what they were doing at the time that the event happened.

You don't seem to know what this woman believes about salvation, and neither do I.

Did you ask her if she believed that the Lord Jesus died for her sins and rose from the dead? If she didn't testify about her faith when you asked your question, that doesn't prove she's not saved. Maybe she's immature and needs some instruction on how to share her testimony. I wasn't there with you, so I don't know what all she said. There could also be people who claim to speak in tongues who don't believe the Gospel. There are all kinds of people out there.

And you be remiss in not acknowledging how they do not stop there with receiving the Holy Spirit again with evidence of tongues as they seek to be filled supernaturally again and again and again after a sensational sign in the flesh.

Believers are constantly to be filled with the Holy Spirit. The apostles were filled in Acts 2, and then again in Acts 4. Paul was filled with the Spirit when he told Elymas that he would be blind. I don't believe people should seek to be 'sensational.' But we are allowed to pray for 'manifestations of the Spirit.' We are told to earnestly desire spiritual gifts. Jesus told His disciples that whatsoever they desired when they prayed to believe they have received them. I Corinthians 14:13 gives instruction to pray for a manifestation/gift of the Spirit- interpretation of a tongue.

The second baptism with the Holy Ghost is DENYING Jesus Christ is in them in hypocrisy.

You need to stick with the Bible. The Bible does not teach what you assert.

Acts associates baptism of the Holy Spirit with the Spirit coming on people, with their speaking in tongues and prophesying. It's a supernatural experience. Luke also uses the terminology filled with the Spirit. Paul wrote of believers receiving the seal of the Spirit, and told these believers to be filled with the Spirit.

Even if you disagree with how Pentecostals view things as discrete steps or one-off experiences or as tongues as 'initial evidence', you have no Biblical basis for condemning believers for seeking to be filled with the Spirit and asking God for this to happen. It is Biblical for those who are already believers to have an experience of being filled with the Spirit. I've given Biblical examples, Acts 4, Paul when he encountered Elymas.

 

[presidente]

After performing them they used that to think it proved they had the Holy Spirit.

Do you have any quotes from first century Jews, attributed to them, even, where they asserted they had the Holy Spirit? Can you show me something from the Talmud that shows that the Jews thought that by doing the works of the law, that they had the Holy Spirit?

Maybe there is some account of some individual Jew thinking he had the Holy Spirit. When you read Christian thought into Jewish history, with your writing style, your meaning can be very confusing.

 

[Enow]

**** I believe Paul made a distinction---- I will in the understanding (English)----- I will pray in the Spirit (tongues)---- I have been doing this for 40 years---- the edification is wonderful---- God opens the Scriptures more---- I receive direction from God ect...

Yet Paul says the tongue is unfruitful to himself unless it is interpreted. He is not edified at all which is why he was comparing the gift of prophesy against the gift of tongues as the gift of prophesy is better because the gift of tongues is not a stand alone gift and never supposed to be.

 

[notuptome]

I Corinthians 14 implies that prayers spoken in church are to be edifying, because Paul asks if someone blesses with the Spirit, he gives thanks well, but the other is not edified. So our prayers of thanksgiving are supposed to edify others. I Corinthians 14:26 lists several things that can be edifying, a psalm, doctrine, tongues, revelation, and interpretation.

In 1 Cor 14:26 the several things that can be edifying are essentially the word of God. Simple fellowship of the saints can be or is implied to be edifying.

The church has two main ministries. First evangelism and then discipleship of the saints. These two main elements produce all the other activities in the church body.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Dan_473]

Well here again is an example of were we differ in a significant manner. Tongues and interpretation can only build up or edify the assembly if they are the means by which the word of God is taught to the believers. Paul makes this clear in his writings to Timothy the young pastor. There is only the mention of the word of God and no mention of tongues in the way Timothy is to run the church.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

The church is built on Christ. The church has her foundation in the word of God.

Tongues could be useful in bridging language barriers but it is the word of God that needs to be communicated for edification and for evangelism.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

hi Roger,

I've been thinking about this post for a few hours now.

I'm hearing from the post that the church only needs the Bible.

it may be of benefit to consider that the Bible doesn't contain a table of contents... so... a believer must look outside the Bible to decide what's in the Bible...imo

 

[notuptome]

hi Roger,

I've been thinking about this post for a few hours now.

I'm hearing from the post that the church only needs the Bible.

it may be of benefit to consider that the Bible doesn't contain a table of contents... so... a believer must look outside the Bible to decide what's in the Bible...imo

The bible is God breathed. The bible is the inspired word of God. Unsaved people cannot understand the bible but saved people with the leading of the Holy Spirit come to a knowledge of the truth God has for us.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[presidente]

Yet Paul says the tongue is unfruitful to himself unless it is interpreted.

No, he says if he prays in a tongue his spirit prays, but his understanding is unfruitful. He who speaks in an unknown tongue does edify himself.

 

[notuptome]

No, he says if he prays in a tongue his spirit prays, but his understanding is unfruitful. He who speaks in an unknown tongue does edify himself.

To edify oneself does seem to be an inconsistent use of the term edify from a biblical perspective.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[presidente]

To edify oneself does seem to be an inconsistent use of the term edify from a biblical perspective.

Jude says to edify yourselves in the most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost.

Are you opposed to praying by yourself without any other people around? What about reading the Bible when you aren't reading aloud to others? Aren't these self-edifying activities?

David used to speak to his soul. Was that wrong?

 

[presidente]

The Bible says, do not put the Lord your God to the test.

Testing the spirits must be done with care. We need to test the way the Bible teaches, and not come up with some scheme to try to make the Holy Spirit jump through our own man-made hoops.

This is a Biblical test:

I John 4
4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

 

[notuptome]

Jude says to edify yourselves in the most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost.

Are you opposed to praying by yourself without any other people around? What about reading the Bible when you aren't reading aloud to others? Aren't these self-edifying activities?

David used to speak to his soul. Was that wrong?

That is not the same as speaking in an unknown tongue. I strongly recommend reading and studying the bible alone with the Lord. But this is not like speaking in an unknown tongue. Praying in the Holy Ghost is not praying in an unknown tongue.

How can we know what God wants us to know apart from His word? Faith cometh by hearing and hearing the word.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Dan_473]

The bible is God breathed. The bible is the inspired word of God. Unsaved people cannot understand the bible but saved people with the leading of the Holy Spirit come to a knowledge of the truth God has for us.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

For the cause of Christ
Roger

right! so, we see that Christians have a source of revelation (the Spirit)

which teaches us things

(like, that the letter of Jude should be part of the Bible)

that are not found in the Bible.

 

[presidente]

Roger,

But you would agree that it is acceptable to engage in self-edifying activities such as Bible study wouldn't you?

 

[88]

Praying in tongues 30 minutes a day will solve some of your current problems...Romans 8:26, 27.....Jude verse 20

**** I continue to encourage praying in tongues for all you who believe in it----too many believers who are letting this gift lay unused----those of who haven't received tongues as part of your life or those that oppose it---my prayer is you will experience it----it changed my life the most only second to being Born Again...

 

[notuptome]

Roger,

But you would agree that it is acceptable to engage in self-edifying activities such as Bible study wouldn't you?

Personal and corporate bible study is necessary for growth in the knowledge of the Lord. At least personal bible study whereas corporate bible study may not be an option for all believers.

For the cause of Christ
Roger