Tongues???

[notuptome]

Have you never witnessed an interpretation of tongues that built up the local body?

Apart from the tongues isn't the local body built up through discipleship of the saints through teaching the word of God?

How do tongues build up the local body differently than the word of God?

The Holy Spirit teaches us what the word of God means so that we are built up and equipped to serve our Savior. Through the word of God and the Holy Spirit we are drawn closer to our Savior.

Everything we do is to be centered on Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[presidente]

Apart from the tongues isn't the local body built up through discipleship of the saints through teaching the word of God?

How do tongues build up the local body differently than the word of God?

The Holy Spirit teaches us what the word of God means so that we are built up and equipped to serve our Savior. Through the word of God and the Holy Spirit we are drawn closer to our Savior.

Everything we do is to be centered on Christ.

I think a better place to start is to ask whether the Bible teaches speaking in tongues and interpretation built up the local body in the first century. If the answer is 'yes', then we can agree on that. It is enough that we know that it does to accept it as legitimate. At least we should be able to agree on that in a first century context.

If you asked me how the gift of exhortation edifies the body as opposed to the gift of teaching, I could give some thoughts on that, but I haven't got a really clear teaching on that from scripture I can give you off the top of my head. I do know from scripture that an interpreted message in tongues edifies the body.

If I can't point to some really specific way that it edifies differently from all the other spiritual gifts, that doesn't change the fact that Paul says that it edifies the body and that his instructions (commandments of the Lord) require that the church allow it...done properly in the proper order. Wanting to know how each gift edifies differently might be a legitimate question, but whether we know the answer to that question or not, we should be willing to accept ministry through the gifts and to exercise them as the scriptures teach.

 

[presidente]

that's correct. The things I've seen that were said to be interpretations of tongues looked to me more like prophecies not really related to the message in the tongue.

and yes, prophecy usually does build up the body, imo.

The onus is on the one who speaks in tongues and there is no interpreter to be quiet.

If someone who doesn't accept what scripture says about spiritual gifts goes into a church and pretends to speak in tongues to 'test the Spirits', why would he expect an interpretation of something that was not a message in tongues given through the manifestation of the Spirit? That's an unreasonable, unbiblical test.

I'd like to know what was said in the prophesy that followed the fake tongue. If it was a prophetic rebuke or correction for tempting God toward the one who said it, and he was so focused on hearing a Psalm interpreted back to him, that he didn't realized he was being rebuked for what he was doing, and then went away claiming to have proven that the gift of interpretation was fake, that's not a valid test of the spirits.

Even if he gave a fake message in tongues that did not come through a manifestation of the spirit and he was just ignored and someone prophesied something else, that doesn't prove the message that came after the fake tongue was fake. Interpretation of tongues is not the only kind of utterance that can come from the congregation.

 

[garee]

The onus is on the one who speaks in tongues and there is no interpreter to be quiet.

Yes, if one speaks in a language others do not know and if the Holy Spirit does not interpret it to the hearer, the one speaking should be silent.

According to the law of God(not a theory) which is not subject to change .Tongues is a sign to those who believe not (no faith). Prophecy, the word of God the one source of faith is for those who have been given the faith to believe God.

1Co 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the LORD. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them "which believe"

If someone who doesn't accept what scripture says about spiritual gifts goes into a church and pretends to speak in tongues to 'test the Spirits', why would he expect an interpretation of something that was not a message in tongues given through the manifestation of the Spirit? That's an unreasonable, unbiblical test.

God is no longer bringing any new revelations. The warning is to not add or subtract from the whole seeing we no longer have it in part . Remember the bible, the book of prohecy alone in its entirety is the Word of God .

 

[Dan_473]

The onus is on the one who speaks in tongues and there is no interpreter to be quiet.

If someone who doesn't accept what scripture says about spiritual gifts goes into a church and pretends to speak in tongues to 'test the Spirits', why would he expect an interpretation of something that was not a message in tongues given through the manifestation of the Spirit? That's an unreasonable, unbiblical test.

I'd like to know what was said in the prophesy that followed the fake tongue. If it was a prophetic rebuke or correction for tempting God toward the one who said it, and he was so focused on hearing a Psalm interpreted back to him, that he didn't realized he was being rebuked for what he was doing, and then went away claiming to have proven that the gift of interpretation was fake, that's not a valid test of the spirits.

Even if he gave a fake message in tongues that did not come through a manifestation of the spirit and he was just ignored and someone prophesied something else, that doesn't prove the message that came after the fake tongue was fake. Interpretation of tongues is not the only kind of utterance that can come from the congregation.

we probably agree on a lot more than we disagree on.
like I fully agree that it's good to
'...accept ministry through the gifts and to exercise them as the scriptures teach.'

'... that doesn't prove the message that came after the fake tongue was fake.'
And we agree there, too



my thoughts on interpretation of tongues and prophecy are based on many years of Pentecostal services.

the interpretations sound a lot like prophecies.

to me, the negative part comes in when one person gives a message in tongues, and everything else has to stop while everyone listens to the tongue, even though no one understands the words.

to me, it seems like it gives the tongue-speaker way too much power... compared to like if a person feels they have a prophecy, they'll probably be asked to wait until the song is over.

 

[OtherWay210]

Speaking in tongues as its performed today, is wrong. I'd stay far away from that behavior : As Paul said, God is not the author of confusion but of peace. Paul was basically mocking people who were unable to communicate with others because of a language barrier ; hes not actually advocating acting a fool and throwing up another barrier to sound communication and doctrine .

Example : only God would understand you - that passage is in context ; of a teacher unable to speak the same language ( tongues ) as their students, therefor there would be disconnect to the point that only God would understand the lesson ; but that defeats the superpose of edification of the body. God does not need to be taught anything .

Paul even go so far as to mock, saying, they wouldn't even know when to say amen at the end of your prayer . So you'd better interpret what you say or have an interpreter of their language to yours. ( not speaking of some babble ) .

How people have confused that into babbling one to another, and rolling around in a puddle of their tears, is beyond me. And really shows the sad state of Christians today...

 

[88]

Speaking in tongues as its performed today, is wrong. I'd stay far away from that behavior : As Paul said, God is not the author of confusion but of peace. Paul was basically mocking people who were unable to communicate with others because of a language barrier ; hes not actually advocating acting a fool and throwing up another barrier to sound communication and doctrine .

Example : only God would understand you - that passage is in context ; of a teacher unable to speak the same language ( tongues ) as their students, therefor there would be disconnect to the point that only God would understand the lesson ; but that defeats the superpose of edification of the body. God does not need to be taught anything .

Paul even go so far as to mock, saying, they wouldn't even know when to say amen at the end of your prayer . So you'd better interpret what you say or have an interpreter of their language to yours. ( not speaking of some babble ) .

How people have confused that into babbling one to another, and rolling around in a puddle of their tears, is beyond me. And really shows the sad state of Christians today...

**** I'm sure they said so much about the disciples on Petecost--- especially the religious people...

 

[88]

we probably agree on a lot more than we disagree on.
like I fully agree that it's good to
'...accept ministry through the gifts and to exercise them as the scriptures teach.'

'... that doesn't prove the message that came after the fake tongue was fake.'
And we agree there, too



my thoughts on interpretation of tongues and prophecy are based on many years of Pentecostal services.

the interpretations sound a lot like prophecies.

to me, the negative part comes in when one person gives a message in tongues, and everything else has to stop while everyone listens to the tongue, even though no one understands the words.

to me, it seems like it gives the tongue-speaker way too much power... compared to like if a person feels they have a prophecy, they'll probably be asked to wait until the song is over.

**** I would not encourage anyone too fake something in Church---- inappropriated--- this not a valid way of discerning----the gifts are Real----- must be exercised in Love and judged by Scripture...

 

[Enow]

**** I would not encourage anyone too fake something in Church---- inappropriated--- this not a valid way of discerning----the gifts are Real----- must be exercised in Love and judged by Scripture...

Supernatural tongues are real, but what kind since the devil has his kind of tongues that is just babbling nonsense whereas God's gift of tongues are of other men's lips to speak unto the people?

Isaiah 8:19 testify of the devil's supernatural tongue and that was before Pentecost and so is God a copycat? No.

Then let us take Him at His word what God's gift of tongues are for in prophesy & by Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 14:20-22... to speak unto the people by other men's lips, and never to seek the Holy Spirit to be received as a sign of tongues, because tongues only serve as a sign to unbelievers; not for believers to know they had received the Holy Ghost for we are to receive Him by faith in Jesus Christ; not by tongues.

 

[presidente]

Yes, if one speaks in a language others do not know and if the Holy Spirit does not interpret it to the hearer, the one speaking should be silent.

In I Corinthians 12, interpretation of tongues is a gift. In I Corinthians 14, we see that the individual who speaks in tongues could potentially interpret it. Someone else could as well. Verse 27 says 'and let one interpret.'

According to the law of God(not a theory) which is not subject to change .Tongues is a sign to those who believe not (no faith).

To them that believe, speaking in tongues and interpretation of tongues are gifts given 'for the common good' according to I Corinthians 12. To them that believe, according to I Corinthians 14, tongues and interpretation edify the church.

To them that believe not, tongues are for a sign. To them that believe, tongues are among the gifts given for the common good.

You shouldn't read the word 'only' into verses where it is not written.

God is no longer bringing any new revelations. The warning is to not add or subtract from the whole seeing we no longer have it in part . Remember the bible, the book of prohecy alone in its entirety is the Word of God .

The Bible does not teach this idea of yours. The faith has been once delivered to the saints, but the Son continues to reveal the Father, and the Spirit continues to reveal the mysteries of the faith. The Spirit also continues to reveal things to say to 'one that sitteth by' in the assembly.

 

[Enow]

In I Corinthians 12, interpretation of tongues is a gift. In I Corinthians 14, we see that the individual who speaks in tongues could potentially interpret it. Someone else could as well. Verse 27 says 'and let one interpret.'

The underlined portion of your quote above is not true.

1 Corinthians 12:[SUP]4 [/SUP]Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.[SUP]5 [/SUP]And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.[SUP]6 [/SUP]And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.[SUP]7 [/SUP]But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.[SUP]8 [/SUP]For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;[SUP]9[/SUP]To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;[SUP]10 [/SUP]To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:[SUP]11 [/SUP]But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.[SUP]12 [/SUP]For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.[SUP]13 [/SUP]For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.[SUP]14 [/SUP]For the body is not one member, but many...............[SUP]19 [/SUP]And if they were all one member, where were the body?[SUP]20 [/SUP]But now are they many members, yet but one body.[SUP]21 [/SUP]And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

So no one can interpret tongues and do the interpretation at the same time or else why follow these instructions in church?

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]27 [/SUP]If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.[SUP]28 [/SUP]But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.[SUP]29 [/SUP]Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.[SUP]30 [/SUP]If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.[SUP]31 [/SUP]For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

That means tongues were never meant to be a stand alone gift as it needs to be interpreted by another. Paul never endorsed tongues to be used alone but to profit the body withal. Tongue speakers cannot say I have no need of another body of Christ to do the interpretation because I can interpret the tongues I am speaking too. It is not taught.

And out of all of this 1 Corinthians 12:13 testify that there is no other drink of the One Spirit in order to get any gifts. You ask Jesus Christ for it; not by asking the Holy Spirit to fall on you to bring only tongues as the apostasy goes.

To them that believe, speaking in tongues and interpretation of tongues are gifts given 'for the common good' according to I Corinthians 12. To them that believe, according to I Corinthians 14, tongues and interpretation edify the church.

Again, only another believer can interpret the tongues after 2 or 3 has spoken in tongues, but where is that practiced?

How easy is it for someone to know a foreign language and speak in that foreign language that so and so is supposed to break up with her date to the prom and go with whomever the tongue speaker's name is and if no one interpreted it, he could translate what he has stated in a foreign language in English for all to hear. They would not believe it until someone took a recording of that tongue and had it translated by that foreign language. You see how having 2 or 3 prevents that temptation to abuse tongues in that manner?

So no. I believe the Bible for the way it is written that no one that speaks in tongues can automatically interpret that tongue and so God is not doing it.

To them that believe not, tongues are for a sign. To them that believe, tongues are among the gifts given for the common good.

Doesn't it bother you that those that preach another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues are preaching tongues as a sign that they had received the Holy Spirit "again" for saved believers that already have the Holy Spirit in them?

You shouldn't read the word 'only' into verses where it is not written.

Sometimes people miss the point of why it is written and so only was inserted. The NIV did this in John 16:13.

John 16:[SUP]13 [/SUP]But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. NIV

I did not need the NIV but the Lord's wisdom to understand what He had meant in the KJV without using "only".

John 16:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. KJV

This is how I know that the KJV is right in Romans 8:26-28 and all modern Bibles translated Romans 8:26-27 wrong, because all modern Bibles testify in John 16:13 that the Holy Spirit can only speak what He hears; He cannot speak His won words to utter His intercessions in Romans 8:26 which is why His intercessions are unspeakable, even though He has them, but with groanings which cannot be uttered; hence no sound at all. That is why in the KJV in Romans 8:27, this Other Person knows the mind of the Spirit to give the Spirit's unutterable intercessions to the Father and that Other Person is Jesus Christ as Romans 8:34 confirms as He is the Word of God that searches our hearts ( Hebrews 4:12-15 )

The Bible does not teach this idea of yours.

Tongue speakers by this apostasy of seeking another baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of tongues will have trouble reading reproofs towards their supernatural tongue as found in the world before Pentecost had come and that apostate calling of seeking to receive Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit again is not of Him ( 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 ).

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.[SUP]3 [/SUP]But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.[SUP]4[/SUP]For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

So anyone preaching another baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues are preaching another gospel.

They need to repent, return to their first love, preach the Good News of Jesus Christ, chase no more after seducing spirits to receive after a sign, and shun vain & profane babbling by leaning on Jesus in praying normally.

1 Thessalonians 5:[SUP]17[/SUP]Pray without ceasing.[SUP]18 [/SUP]In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

That is the will of God in Christ Jesus and so that is not Him interrupting your prayer to Him nor giving thanks for you by way of the Holy Spirit when it is on you to give thanks.

Believers keep ignoring the context of the message in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter why they should seek prophesy over all spiritual gifts and why by comparing it against tongues because tongues is not a stand alone gift in the assembly.

The faith has been once delivered to the saints, but the Son continues to reveal the Father, and the Spirit continues to reveal the mysteries of the faith. The Spirit also continues to reveal things to say to 'one that sitteth by' in the assembly.

That faith in Jesus Christ also includes 1 Corinthians 12:13 where everybody can claim one baptism in the Spirit by that one drink in the One Spirit; thus there is no other drink in the Spirit. Those that do, are not preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ and are giving another calling' hence another gospel; and it does not stop there; because others can testify to receiving what they believe is the Holy Spirit again and again and again.

So no way is that other calling of Him nor the tongue which can never be interpreted that comes by it.. is of Him either.

Wayward believers are to call on Jesus Christ now to confirm this word to them to see their need of Him to deliver them from this apostasy, because no one can convince you when it is on God to help you see the truth in His words to repent.

 

[Dan_473]

**** I would not encourage anyone too fake something in Church---- inappropriated--- this not a valid way of discerning----the gifts are Real----- must be exercised in Love and judged by Scripture...

yes, I agree that the gifts are Real----- must be exercised in Love and judged by Scripture...

does it seem right that the group comes to a sudden stop when someone feels they have a tongues message? Couldn't they say to the elders that they had a message, and when would be a good time to give it?

 

[88]

yes, I agree that the gifts are Real----- must be exercised in Love and judged by Scripture...

does it seem right that the group comes to a sudden stop when someone feels they have a tongues message? Couldn't they say to the elders that they had a message, and when would be a good time to give it?

**** some people don' t operate gifts in proper timing----I see your point...

 

[FrankLee]

I see all these pages and pages of discussions, even strife and there's no edification in any of it. I for one need building up as the rest of life is difficult enough. Jesus came and convicted me outside of religion or church walls. I'm thankful He saved me. He really saved me from destruction. I didn't know what saved was but He did it. Loved ones praying for me put the Holy Spirit on my trail. After that He baptized me in His Holy Spirit and I began speaking in tongues, another language I never learned. It may be a tongue of men or of angels, I don't know. That was forty years ago this coming fall. For the first year maybe a word I spoke frequently when praying in the spirit (ref Ephesians 6th chapter), tongues that is, was the word "yeshua". A word I knew, Jesus. I would pronounce this word YESH-ua, with the emphasis on the yesh portion. Not that it makes any difference but was intriguing to me. Over the years I've "kept myself built up praying in "the Holy Ghost". Tongues, praying in the spirit, praying in the Holy Ghost are used interchangeably in the new testament.

In acts 19 Paul asks a group of believers if they had received the Holy Ghost since they had believed making a distinction between the events. They had not even heard of the Holy Ghost. They received the Holy Spirit and the accompanying gift of tongues after pail prayed for them.

We could not have survived the rigors of life without the power of the Spirit of God anointing us. There is no way to describe it. The difference between having this anointing and not is as great as the difference between an unbeliever and a Christian. You cannot come to know Jesus as you should unless you receive the very Holy Spirit He promised. But you will receive power, "dunamis" after the Holy Ghost is come upon you. Over and over again it seems out of order to be trying to convince Christians the word of God is to be believed and practiced. There is so much more I could relate that has happened because my entire family, wife and children, have been filled with the Holy Spirit of promise.

Not being able to have children since my wife was allergic to my supermarket and killed it on contact. Doctors were unable to cure this. We had been married 14 years. Jesus began to tell us he was sending us a son. Many many things happened over the next two years, very hard things as we waited for God's promise. On Tuesday, Oct the 9th,1979 I was praying in tongues and the spirit of God gave me the interpretation. In short He said He'd done it and fulfilled His promise. A trip to the lab confirmed it. My wife bought a baby book that same week and we wrote his name there. Nathan Matthew Jennings. No, we couldn't have had the set determined by medicine! He was born Wednesday June 25, 1980 nearly nine months later. He is a fine man of God today baptized in the Holy Spirit and yes speaking in tongues, praying in the spirit.

As I write this I pray in the spirit. A building up, praying secrets that the devil can't wire tap or understand. Praying perhaps for a Christian on the other side if the world, praying for deliverance from some situation in my own life or a friends. God knows.

There is a spirit of intercession prayer we read about in Job.

Job 32:18-20 KJVS
For I am full of matter, the spirit within me constraineth me. [19] Behold, my belly is as wine which hath no vent; it is ready to burst like new bottles. [20] I will speak, that I may be refreshed: I will open my lips and answer.

Matter is speaking, words, talking eg. Praying in the spirit. Interceding in some situation that our spirit knows about but our understanding does not.

It is part of our spiritual weaponry accounted for in the sixth chapter of Ephesians. Not to be discounted or assigned a lesser place to every piece of our armor.

It is a building up, a rest as we are told in Isaiah.

Isaiah 28:11-12 KJVS
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. [12] To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

It is a pure language that cannot be defiled by our natural minds.

Zephaniah 3:9 KJVS
For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord , to serve him with one consent.


Mark 16:17-18 KJVS
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Have I cast out devils? Yes by the power of the Holy Spirit. Do I speak with, in new tongues? Yes by the power and gift of the Holy Spirit. Have I laid hands on the sick and seen them recover? Yes.

Friends I'm no explainer but a mere reporter that has been blessed to receive the wonderful gifts Jesus has freely given me.

For those that believe God's word as it is so plainly written, no proof is necessary. For those that reject God's word no evidence is sufficient. These are Biblical skinny cows. Starving kine.

Remember the skinny cows that ate the fat cows in Pharaoh's dream yet remained just as malnourished?
Well they're written of in the new testament as well.

2 Timothy 3:7 KJVS
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Skinny cows eating, feeding on the words Jesus gave yet not receiving the benefit, nourishment of them. Do not let religious institutions, denominations, PHDs, THDs or scholars cheat you out of God's gifts. My largest question though us how have the deprived individuals been able to survive without the gift of the anointing of the Magnificent, loving and all powerful Holy Spirit. It is by His grace. He has more for you but you must lay down yourself, your pride and receive.

I've actually had people, so called Christians, tell me what I received was from the bad one! How strange that in the 33 years I was a raging heathen nothing similar ever happened. Never before did I witness Jesus. Never before had I been ashamed of my acts. Never before had I wanted to be an honest, faithful man. Never before had I really cared for others. Never before had I thought about pleasing God. Only after I was saying Ed and baptized in the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit if you wish. Every time I pray in the spirit, speak in tongues, the Holy Ghost, I am again reminded of the wonderful things that have happened to me since Jesus came for me, a wretched leper on the refuse pile of life. Remember what the scripture says about who God deals with?

1 Corinthians 1:26-29 KJVS
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called : [27] But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; [28] And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea , and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: [29] That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Do you glory in His presence or in your traditions? Perhaps in your education. Beware of being a skinny cow and unable to receive nourishment from the milk of the word. Watchman Nee was a scholar, a Chinese Christian that died in a communist prison for his faith. Mr. Nee lamented that although he was well educated in the Scriptures, Greek, Latin, Hebrew, apologetics he was never able to draw as close to the savior as the simple villagers that he preached to and led in the prayer of repentance and salvation.

Do not let your pride stand in the way of closeness to Jesus. Humans do that to each other. They cheat themselves out of comfort and love by allowing stiffnecked pride to keep them rigid and at arms length from one wanting to shower love upon them.i know I've done it. I hurt myself for years cheating myself out of love I so desperately needed. Not anymore. Life is too short and we don't live that long at best. Do not deprive yourself out of love, gifts and fellowship that God wants you so much to have.

Dreams and visions are also part of the anointing of the Holy Spirit. One night as I slept God gave a dream or vision. It was very vivid, just as if it were happening. Jesus was walking down a busy street and though I couldn't see His face I knew it was Him. He was carrying a large basket that we filled with gifts He wanted to give to those people on the street. Instead of gladly rushing up to Him to receive they acted otherwise. With fear on their faces and curses in their mouths they ran from Him saying "get away from me, we don't want any of those things"!

Lord let me and those that read this small account be swift to run to you and receive the wonders you have for us. Lord fill me with your Spirit so that I can be a fat well nourished sheep abiding peacefully in your flock.

Holy Spirit of God my prayer to you is that you would place your wonderful anointing on these words to benefit, instruct, move and direct your people to a closer walk with Jesus Christ and that every single reader be moved to fall before you and cry out for the baptism of and in your Holy Spirit. I have written Lord and it is you though that move and change hearts. I have spoken the truth Lord.

 

[wolfwint]

Frank when you are right, then please answer my question.Why this teaching with the second baptism what you are talking from, was not taught during the whole churchhistory before 1900.?

 

[FrankLee]

Frank when you are right, then please answer my question.Why this teaching with the second baptism what you are talking from, was not taught during the whole churchhistory before 1900.?

As before friend I am not an explainer just a simple reporter. I am akin to one of those simple villagers preached to by Watchman Nee. I would suggest that you go directly to Jesus and with your Bible before you in prayer. He said His sheep would know His voice. I'm only reporting what He has done for me in the light of the Scriptures He has shown me. What I encourage everyone to do is seek God earnestly for themselves and try to lay down anything that is not written between the pages of the Bible. I tried to discuss what had happened to me with denominational preachers after Jesus came into my heart and filled me with His spirit but all I got was discouragement and put downs. Seek God and pour out your heart to Him as in Psalm 62;8. When we can get past our mind, thoughts intellect and pour out the very depths of our heart to Him He will answer. You will be seeking Him with all of your strength, your might and He promises He will be found of you.


My prayer is that you are able to draw closer to Him, to desire fellowship with Him more than you ever have before. He will fill your heart and everything will be answered for you. I am merely a simple encourager to seek God. I asked Him once "how can I tell if a man is from God". His answer was simple. "He won't want anything from you but rather will want to give to you". I only want to give you an encouragement to seek God and see what He has for you.

May the Lord speak to you through the Scriptures by His Holy Spirit.

Frank

 

[FrankLee]

I discern that you are seeking God's truth and pray that He reveal what He has for you. This will come from Him and not man, though He uses men to direct others in the way. Look to the word for it never deceives us. Everyone that seeks finds and to him that knocks it will be opened. All this outside of denominations, religion, histories, traditions or philosophies. Seek God, with your heart not your head is my best advice.

Blessings in your search for the face of Jesus, He's not far away!

 

[wolfwint]

As before friend I am not an explainer just a simple reporter. I am akin to one of those simple villagers preached to by Watchman Nee. I would suggest that you go directly to Jesus and with your Bible before you in prayer. He said His sheep would know His voice. I'm only reporting what He has done for me in the light of the Scriptures He has shown me. What I encourage everyone to do is seek God earnestly for themselves and try to lay down anything that is not written between the pages of the Bible. I tried to discuss what had happened to me with denominational preachers after Jesus came into my heart and filled me with His spirit but all I got was discouragement and put downs. Seek God and pour out your heart to Him as in Psalm 62;8. When we can get past our mind, thoughts intellect and pour out the very depths of our heart to Him He will answer. You will be seeking Him with all of your strength, your might and He promises He will be found of you.


My prayer is that you are able to draw closer to Him, to desire fellowship with Him more than you ever have before. He will fill your heart and everything will be answered for you. I am merely a simple encourager to seek God. I asked Him once "how can I tell if a man is from God". His answer was simple. "He won't want anything from you but rather will want to give to you". I only want to give you an encouragement to seek God and see what He has for you.

May the Lord speak to you through the Scriptures by His Holy Spirit.

Frank

So, you also can not answer my question. Till know nobody could. Maby nobody can. How i should trust an doctrine which is only 117 years old?

 

[Enow]

I see all these pages and pages of discussions, even strife and there's no edification in any of it. I for one need building up as the rest of life is difficult enough. Jesus came and convicted me outside of religion or church walls. I'm thankful He saved me. He really saved me from destruction. I didn't know what saved was but He did it. Loved ones praying for me put the Holy Spirit on my trail. After that He baptized me in His Holy Spirit and I began speaking in tongues, another language I never learned. It may be a tongue of men or of angels, I don't know. That was forty years ago this coming fall. For the first year maybe a word I spoke frequently when praying in the spirit (ref Ephesians 6th chapter), tongues that is, was the word "yeshua". A word I knew, Jesus. I would pronounce this word YESH-ua, with the emphasis on the yesh portion. Not that it makes any difference but was intriguing to me. Over the years I've "kept myself built up praying in "the Holy Ghost". Tongues, praying in the spirit, praying in the Holy Ghost are used interchangeably in the new testament.

FrankLee,

I thank the Lord that you believed in Him to be saved, but I have to ask you to consider what you are saying here.

1 John 4:1-7 tells us to not believe every spirit but test them. Are you saying not to test them? Just believe every spirit that comes over us?

If we do it the way John tells us to, then it is by acknowledging that the Jesus Christ is in believers and cannot be received again because Him being in us is a testimony of our salvation so when spirits do come over us later on in life after salvation, we know that it was not the Holy Spirit nor God's gift of tongues when it comes with no interpretation.

We pray acknowledging that the Holy Ghost is in us; we do not pray as if He is not; and believers pray as if He is not in us when they seek to receive the Holy Spirit again with evidence of tongues that never comes with interpretation. It is a testimony not consistent with our faith in Jesus Christ.

In acts 19 Paul asks a group of believers if they had received the Holy Ghost since they had believed making a distinction between the events. They had not even heard of the Holy Ghost. They received the Holy Spirit and the accompanying gift of tongues after pail prayed for them.

Read it again.... because it is not what you are saying here.

Paul came across certain disciples but did not know what kind. When they did not know about the Holy Spirit, Paul had asked them of what water baptism they were under. John the Baptist's. Then Paul told them about Jesus Christ Whom John the Baptist was talking about in preparing the way for. Then these disciples of John the Baptist's believed Paul about Jesus Christ, and they got water baptized in Jesus's name to be His disciples and they had received the promise of the Holy Spirit at their salvation. Thus they were not saved when Paul had met them because they were only disciples of John the Baptist's.

We could not have survived the rigors of life without the power of the Spirit of God anointing us. There is no way to describe it. The difference between having this anointing and not is as great as the difference between an unbeliever and a Christian. You cannot come to know Jesus as you should unless you receive the very Holy Spirit He promised. But you will receive power, "dunamis" after the Holy Ghost is come upon you. Over and over again it seems out of order to be trying to convince Christians the word of God is to be believed and practiced. There is so much more I could relate that has happened because my entire family, wife and children, have been filled with the Holy Spirit of promise.

Not being able to have children since my wife was allergic to my supermarket and killed it on contact. Doctors were unable to cure this. We had been married 14 years. Jesus began to tell us he was sending us a son. Many many things happened over the next two years, very hard things as we waited for God's promise. On Tuesday, Oct the 9th,1979 I was praying in tongues and the spirit of God gave me the interpretation. In short He said He'd done it and fulfilled His promise. A trip to the lab confirmed it. My wife bought a baby book that same week and we wrote his name there. Nathan Matthew Jennings. No, we couldn't have had the set determined by medicine! He was born Wednesday June 25, 1980 nearly nine months later. He is a fine man of God today baptized in the Holy Spirit and yes speaking in tongues, praying in the spirit.

As I write this I pray in the spirit. A building up, praying secrets that the devil can't wire tap or understand. Praying perhaps for a Christian on the other side if the world, praying for deliverance from some situation in my own life or a friends. God knows.

You keep equating every response from God as if done by praying in tongues. You just told every one that the devil is able to mess with God in answering prayers and so we should never pray normally but by relying on the Spirit to pray in tongues when the Book of Job tells us that the devil cannot do anything without God's permission; so why the prayer language? No need for it. It is better to know what you had prayed for to give the Father hanks in Jesus's name for answered prayers. Indeed, it is the Father's will for us to not cease in praying and so why would He interrupt us with the Spirit praying in tongues? He would rather we give thanks than have the Spirit give thanks for us to Him. It is His will.

1 Thessalonians 5:[SUP]17 [/SUP]Pray without ceasing.[SUP]18 [/SUP]In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

There is a spirit of intercession prayer we read about in Job.

Job 32:18-20 KJVS
For I am full of matter, the spirit within me constraineth me. [19] Behold, my belly is as wine which hath no vent; it is ready to burst like new bottles. [20] I will speak, that I may be refreshed: I will open my lips and answer.

Matter is speaking, words, talking eg. Praying in the spirit. Interceding in some situation that our spirit knows about but our understanding does not.

It is part of our spiritual weaponry accounted for in the sixth chapter of Ephesians. Not to be discounted or assigned a lesser place to every piece of our armor.

Job 32:18-20 has nothing to do with the Spirit praying for us.

Paul speaks of himself praying in tongues in 1 Corinthians 14th chpater but not the way you think. In context, Paul is saying it is his spirit praying; not the Holy Spirit. And what he is praying for while speaking in tngues as manifested by the Holy Spirit, is that somebody else will interpret that tongue so it will be fruitful even to himself; and that testifies that tongues was never meant to be used as a prayer language when Paul is praying that someone may interoret the tongue that the Holy Spirit was manifesting in Paul to speak.

It is a building up, a rest as we are told in Isaiah.

Isaiah 28:11-12 KJVS
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. [12] To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

It is a pure language that cannot be defiled by our natural minds.

Read it again.

Isaiah 28:11-12 KJVS
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

That is not a tongue that nobody understands as being spoken to God; but another language to be spoken to the people.

Zephaniah 3:9 KJVS
For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord , to serve him with one consent.

Not supporting what you are saying when it is the people that is calling on Him; Not the Spirit's praying to Him.

Mark 16:17-18 KJVS
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Not just another tongue; but tongues as of other men's lips to speak unto the people. How many different kinds of tongues does God need for the Holy Spirit to pray back to Him for? So again, it is not a prayer language.

Have I cast out devils? Yes by the power of the Holy Spirit. Do I speak with, in new tongues? Yes by the power and gift of the Holy Spirit. Have I laid hands on the sick and seen them recover? Yes.

If you preach this iniquity of seeking another baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, then no matter how many miracles you claim by this iniquity, Matthew 7:21-23 & Luke 13:24-30 says you are in danger of being left behind.

Friends I'm no explainer but a mere reporter that has been blessed to receive the wonderful gifts Jesus has freely given me.

For those that believe God's word as it is so plainly written, no proof is necessary. For those that reject God's word no evidence is sufficient. These are Biblical skinny cows. Starving kine.

Remember the skinny cows that ate the fat cows in Pharaoh's dream yet remained just as malnourished?
Well they're written of in the new testament as well.

2 Timothy 3:7 KJVS
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Skinny cows eating, feeding on the words Jesus gave yet not receiving the benefit, nourishment of them. Do not let religious institutions, denominations, PHDs, THDs or scholars cheat you out of God's gifts. My largest question though us how have the deprived individuals been able to survive without the gift of the anointing of the Magnificent, loving and all powerful Holy Spirit. It is by His grace. He has more for you but you must lay down yourself, your pride and receive.

I've actually had people, so called Christians, tell me what I received was from the bad one! How strange that in the 33 years I was a raging heathen nothing similar ever happened. Never before did I witness Jesus. Never before had I been ashamed of my acts. Never before had I wanted to be an honest, faithful man. Never before had I really cared for others. Never before had I thought about pleasing God. Only after I was saying Ed and baptized in the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit if you wish. Every time I pray in the spirit, speak in tongues, the Holy Ghost, I am again reminded of the wonderful things that have happened to me since Jesus came for me, a wretched leper on the refuse pile of life. Remember what the scripture says about who God deals with?

1 Corinthians 1:26-29 KJVS
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called : [27] But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; [28] And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea , and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: [29] That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Do you glory in His presence or in your traditions? Perhaps in your education. Beware of being a skinny cow and unable to receive nourishment from the milk of the word. Watchman Nee was a scholar, a Chinese Christian that died in a communist prison for his faith. Mr. Nee lamented that although he was well educated in the Scriptures, Greek, Latin, Hebrew, apologetics he was never able to draw as close to the savior as the simple villagers that he preached to and led in the prayer of repentance and salvation.

Do not let your pride stand in the way of closeness to Jesus. Humans do that to each other. They cheat themselves out of comfort and love by allowing stiffnecked pride to keep them rigid and at arms length from one wanting to shower love upon them.i know I've done it. I hurt myself for years cheating myself out of love I so desperately needed. Not anymore. Life is too short and we don't live that long at best. Do not deprive yourself out of love, gifts and fellowship that God wants you so much to have.

Dreams and visions are also part of the anointing of the Holy Spirit. One night as I slept God gave a dream or vision. It was very vivid, just as if it were happening. Jesus was walking down a busy street and though I couldn't see His face I knew it was Him. He was carrying a large basket that we filled with gifts He wanted to give to those people on the street. Instead of gladly rushing up to Him to receive they acted otherwise. With fear on their faces and curses in their mouths they ran from Him saying "get away from me, we don't want any of those things"!

Lord let me and those that read this small account be swift to run to you and receive the wonders you have for us. Lord fill me with your Spirit so that I can be a fat well nourished sheep abiding peacefully in your flock.

Holy Spirit of God my prayer to you is that you would place your wonderful anointing on these words to benefit, instruct, move and direct your people to a closer walk with Jesus Christ and that every single reader be moved to fall before you and cry out for the baptism of and in your Holy Spirit. I have written Lord and it is you though that move and change hearts. I have spoken the truth Lord.

The Holy Spirit cannot answer prayers. He is not at the throne of grace to be able to. Scripture says Who does.

John 14:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.....[SUP]13 [/SUP]And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.[SUP]14 [/SUP]If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

1 Timothy 2:[SUP]5 [/SUP]For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Scripture cannot run against scripture and so you need the help of the Good shepherd, Jesus Christ, to stop reading your supernatural experience into the scripture elsewhere when other parts of scripture plainly reproves what you are saying or what you think those scripture are saying to justify that apostate calling which is not of Him at all.
Ask Jesus for help; not the Holy Spirit; ask Jesus for the help you need to take a step back and see Whom you are preaching about; Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit? Who are you a disciple of? Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit?

If you know that the Holy Spirit was sent to testufy of the Son ( John 15:26 ) to gloriy the Son ( John 16:14 ) then how can He do that except thru us ( John 15:27 ) in preaching ( 1 Corinthians 2:2 ) in fellowship ( 1 Corinthians 1:9-10 ) and in worship ( John 13:31-32 & Philippians 2:5-11 )

Only the spirit of the antichrist would take the spotlight off of the Son to themselves for their signs and wonders.

The real indwelling Holy Spirit would never take the spotlight off of the Son in anything not even for a little bit.

When you decide this day Whom you will serve; Jesus Christ or something else in Hs name because the Holy Spirit would never lead you to put the spotlight on Himself, then when you choose Jesus, pray that He will help you to do it because I needed Him to do it when He put that question to me. About a week later, I was confronted with the "holy laughter movement", and He kept me from falling in that supernaturally as He kept me from following after that serving that movment in seeking that glory of that movement. He kept me as His disciple from being a disciple of something else in His name. So I hope in Him that He will do the same for you in waking you up to return to your first love, because you do not need tongues as a prayer language for anything when God wants you to pray without ceasing and to give thanks to the Father in Jesus's name because that is His will for you to do; it is not the Spirit's job to do it for you.

The Spirit has intercessions but because of John 16:13, He cannot utter them but speaks only what He hears so He is not going to turn God's gift of tongues around and use it as a prayer language back to God. God's gift of tongues is of other men's lips to speak unto the people and when it is not as gained by an apostate calling separate from our salvation, that tongue is not of Him any more than that other calling is.

Therefore how does the unspeakable intercessions of the Spirit is given to the Father? By way of Jesus Christ knowing the mind of the Spirit as Jesus is the One that searches our hearts ( Hebrews 4:12-16 ) as Romans 8:26-27 ONLY in the KJV says.

Now may the Lord help you to be a disciple of Jesus Christ because that is what the Holy Spirit & scripture is leading you to be and to do in seeking the glory of the Son and by Him, the glory of God the Father. There is no other way to serve.

 

[FrankLee]

You fight against yourself. You are contentious and your heart is shut up against God.

Goodbye.