Understanding God’s election

[lrs68]

Yes, you did, and yes, He was. Possibly I misunderstood you, but I thought you were saying they became saved because they understood; that is, that their understanding of His sacrifice was what saved them. If so, I am saying the reverse of that, that they understood because they were saved - that their salvation came first with their understanding coming from that.

David wrote about the suffering which Jesus quoted while on the Cross.

 

[rogerg]

David wrote about the suffering which Jesus quoted while on the Cross.

Sorry, don't follow your point?

 

[lrs68]

Sorry, don't follow your point?

Psalms 22 and 31 Jesus said, which David wrote in the Psalms. So David was aware of the suffering to come.

 

[Cameron143]

The wrong view of god’s sovereignty can determine that anyone or multiple moral attributes of his need not apply for any given situation.

A.W. Pink writes: “When we say god is Sovereign in the exercise of his love, we mean that he loves who he chooses and god does NOT love everybody.”

In this worldview “Sovereign” means god does not have to function in harmony with HIS OWN moral nature.

He creates a fallen human nature that man has no ability to respond to the Good News, not only is it that his human nature is hard wired from birth to sin continuously, he does not become a sinner, no he is a hard wired sinner from birth to do evil.

For the small god’s the attribute of love is simply a small option that god has and if he rarely uses it there is no problem whatsoever that is what it means to be Sovereign.

Yet scripture clearly states God IS Love, His essential nature IS Love.

Yes, He is also Omnipotent and Omniscient, however, God’s Moral attributes in a sense would govern how God’s power is expressed always!

So why not also include His righteousness? Unlike love, God is righteous in all His ways...Psalm 145:17. Where is the verse that says God is loving in all His ways?
There was another poster earlier who said it was a manifestation of God's love towards the Egyptians He destroyed. Do you believe God was manifesting His love towards them as well?

 

[Magenta]

Are you under the belief that the lost man cannot understand any scripture?

Why should I answer your question if you will not answer mine?

Here it is again: Do you have the natural man accepting what Scripture
says he cannot know or receive, and believing what is foolishness to him?

 

[Cameron143]

I have no dilemma, please keep it straight.
I am not the absolute determinist in the room.

Saying God is culpable for the actions of men and angels and unjust should be seen as a dilemma.
I have no problem with election as taught in the Bible. It is perfectly in accordance with His attributes and ways.

 

[cv5]

That's not what I asked you. I asked: Did any of us get to choose the GIFT of PHYSICAL life to which we were effectually "called" -- a gift which was bestowed on each of us. Tough question for you, which is why you evaded a straight answer?

Life is a gift. Eternal life is even a greater gift.
One we get without asking. The other we get by asking.

Simple right?

Yet the Calvinites turn it into a Twilight zone episode as they always do.
And why pray tell would they make something so uttery simple into something utterly inscrutable and uttery impossible?

Next question: Which master do you think that they are serving by doing so?

 

[Cameron143]

I have no dilemma, please keep it straight.
I am not the absolute determinist in the room.

But you see, you actually are. You have determined what God is and is not, rather than let scripture make the determination.

 

[rogerg]

Psalms 22 and 31 Jesus said, which David wrote in the Psalms. So David was aware of the suffering to come.

Well, first, I think it was God who moved David to write what He wanted written through the Holy Spirit, along with all of the other writings of the Bible, so It did not originate from David. Therefore, by being made aware by the Holy Spirit, it signifies that David had been saved by God: the Holy Spirit indwells only those who are saved, not everyone.

 

[cv5]

Rufus... the would-be master of comparing apples and oranges.

The wise guy's know from which tree this fruit he is peddling is coming from.

 

[Magenta]

I have no dilemma

Yes, we get it: you ignoring and twisting and denying what Scripture says poses no dilemma for you.

 

[cv5]

The Hotel California Calvinite grift keeps on coming on this thread.
You can pretend to debate anytime you want but you can never leave.

And never find the right answers.

 

[lrs68]

Well, first, I think it was God who moved David to write what He wanted written through the Holy Spirit, along with all of the other writings of the Bible, so It did not originate from David. Therefore, by being made aware by the Holy Spirit, it signifies that David had been saved by God: the Holy Spirit indwells only those who are saved, not everyone.

The Old Testament Saints were looking for the coming Messiah to save them. Jacob on his death bed spoke about the coming Shiloh. The prophets believed in the coming Messiah. Even Jesus said Abraham was looking forward to Jesus' day.

 

[Cranberry]

But you see, you actually are. You have determined what God is and is not, rather than let scripture make the determination.

Maybe you might consider that fact regarding their posts as well as others like them here as a God sent blessing?

They reiterate what we are told as far as who God assures shall be blessed by His Holy Spirit so to rightly divine His word.

It isn't them. Yet,they are responsible for providing that assurance we are eternally secure in.
God's word is truth.

 

[Magenta]

God's word is truth.

John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

 

[Rufus]

And God is always calling to everyone all of the time, as God is no respecter of persons as regards His justice.

Whereby they MUST make a conscious WILLFUL CHOICE to heed the call or not.

INCLUDING the Egyptians at the time of Moses, and the Canaanites at the time of Joshua.
Both nations had vast profound witness as to Who God is and that judgement was nigh, and that the time of REPENTANCE is at hand.

INCLUDING the time of the 7 year tribulation, where CHOOSING will be INESCAPABLE.
The time at which the Men of God stand opposed to the Satan-man for all the world to WITNESS.
And once choice leads to eternal LIFE and the other choice lead to eternal DEATH.

The Calvinites defy and deny all of this, and Holy God gets the blame.

Except when our self-professed intellectual learned guy forgets scriptures that contradict his lies!

Acts 16:6-7
6 Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia. 7 When they came to the border of Mysia, they tried to enter Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them to
NIV

And this:

Acts 13:48
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
ESV

 

[Kroogz]

Oh yeah. A lot of sneaking and skullduggery happening on the other side of the vale.

It is interesting to watch. Sad, but interesting. They can't say the quiet part out loud. So they TRY to sound as Arminian as possible, because their quiet part is INSANITY. And Both Calvinism and Arminianism are full of holes.

 

[Rufus]

The angels that sinned. It was their choice. Nothing predetermined there.

You still don't read too swell, do you? God did predetermine their eternal destiny before they sinned! He chose in eternity to not save any of the fallen angels, so does that make him unjust, unfair, unrighteous, unloving?

 

[Cameron143]

The Old Testament Saints were looking for the coming Messiah to save them. Jacob on his death bed spoke about the coming Shiloh. The prophets believed in the coming Messiah. Even Jesus said Abraham was looking forward to Jesus' day.

Abraham saw it and rejoiced in it...John 8:56. How do you understand this?

 

[Rufus]

I read this .. seems quite clear.




If God did not design it then God is not sovereign, then who did design it, it could not have been some spontaneous uncontrolled result.
God determined the effects of the fall on man's nature.

God did! He predetermined in eternity that DEATH (and everything that that entails!) would be the punishment for sin. So...how does this make God unjust, unfair, unrighteous and unloving? Did God cause A&E to sin?