Understanding God’s election

[Kroogz]

If it weren't for God gracious act of election of many to salvation, none of us would be having this kind of conversation since we would be sharing in the eternal destiny of the fallen angels.

You may be saved....But you haven't been elected to anything yet. That takes growth in His Grace and knowledge.

 

[Inquisitor]

One word. RIDICULOUS. Good Lord. There is no "paradox" in His salvation message to ALL OF MANKIND.

We are fallen. We Are without hope.........That is why He sent Himself to mankind.

And Because He is so much bigger than your theology.........You can't SEE that HE is for ALL of mankind.

And that is what Calvinism/reformed theology is......One great paradox for man......except for His SPECIAL little chosen ones.

I am like any other man, not special in myself, I just believed in Him.

I am just a believer like anybody else.........You're on a pedestal as one of the SPECIAL elect.

One fundamental problem with Calvinism is that no one knows who the elect are.

A Calvinist can falsely believe they are one of the elect but only God knows.

Hence, a Calvinist can never have any confidence in their salvation.

Not only are the odds stacked against their salvation but that applies to their family members also.

Jacob and Esau were brothers, yet God hated Esau.

Calvinism is a one tough theology.

 

[Kroogz]

But as for me and my household, we believe that our Sovereign God is just!

No you don't. He is Just Just for you.

 

[Rufus]

You may be saved....But you haven't been elected to anything yet. That takes growth in His Grace and knowledge.

Some day read the "chain" of salvation in Rom 8:30! If no one has been elected unto salvation, then no one is saved since no one is justified.

 

[Magenta]

No it makes god responsible for every evil act because he designed man's fallen character to be that way
you define it .....you know completely fallen, a slave to sin, factors beyond man's control... and on and on.

God is not responsible for the choices man makes, or it would be unjust of God to hold man
responsible. Oy. You don't get it. I get it. You do believe God is unfair and so do your cronies.
You screech it and scream it over and over and over again. Hush. God is not unfair.

Though we also know you reject what Scripture says of the natural man...

 

[Inquisitor]

You may be saved....But you haven't been elected to anything yet. That takes growth in His Grace and knowledge.

In Calvinism there is no security and Rufus, more than likely, may not be saved.

 

[Kroogz]

One fundamental problem with Calvinism is that no one knows who the elect are.

That is so very true...........But the special elect one knows that THEY are elect. Everybody else is suspect.

 

[Inquisitor]

God is not responsible for the choices man makes, or it would be unjust of God to hold man
responsible. Oy. You don't get it. I get it. You do believe God is unfair and so do your cronies.
You screech it and scream it over and over and over again. Hush. God is not unfair.

In Calvinism, mankind was in the vast majority created to be destroyed.

God ordained the destruction of your family members, relatives, church members.

We cannot know ultimately who is saved in Calvinism.

God is not unfair!

 

[Rufus]

One fundamental problem with Calvinism is that no one knows who the elect are.

A Calvinist can falsely believe they are one of the elect but only God knows.

Hence, a Calvinist can never have any confidence in their salvation.

Not only are the odds stacked against their salvation but that applies to their family members also.

Jacob and Esau were brothers, yet God hated Esau.

Calvinism is a one tough theology.

This is patently false! We have many ways of knowing we are God's children. Read the gospel of John some day and John's First Epistle and what Paul teaches about the Holy Spirit and how he bears witness to our spirit! I have the UTMOST confidence in my salvation because NONE of it ultimately depends upon me! I am merely the recipient of [eternal] life! I no more chose to be born again than I did to be born into this world. I know God will keep his promises and keep me, preserve me, sanctify me and yes...even chastise me, punish me when he thinks it's necessary for me to get back on track. My confidence is 101% in God -- not in myself!

Praise God for his lovingkindness and faithfulness!

 

[fredoheaven]

Some day read the "chain" of salvation in Rom 8:30! If no one has been elected unto salvation, then no one is saved since no one is justified.

It happens there is no election unto salvation in Romans 8:30. Thanks

 

[lrs68]

Abraham saw it and rejoiced in it...John 8:56. How do you understand this?

I see it that Abraham had information that God doesn't share with Moses when God gave the Torah to Moses.

In fact, the account from the Book of Jasher goes into great detail about the Genesis account where we get the highlight of what happened.

But knowing that David and Joshua mention the Book of Jasher kind of makes me think that God knew people like me would read Jasher and learn the difference which actually gives more information about what we read in the Torah.

It's obvious the Hebrew/Jews were aware of this and kept both Genesis/Bereshit and Jasher holy because God gave them both accounts.

 

[Magenta]

This is patently false! We have many ways of knowing we are God's children.

Romans 8:15-16 You did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.


Of course we are aware that there are those in our presence who mock and scoff personal revelation...

It is the same situation as earlier described concerning how atheists behave.

God keeps His promises. For some that is worthy of derision.

 

[Inquisitor]

That is so very true...........But the special elect one knows that THEY are elect. Everybody else is suspect.

I remember Paul saying, "woe to me if I do not preach".

So even the elect can disqualify themselves if they do not perform.

 

[Kroogz]

In Calvinism there is no security and Rufus, more than likely, may not be saved.

I am not going to say that about anyone. But I do know he is not elected to serve yet. His witness to the lost is lost.

 

[Cameron143]

I see there is a book called "Nobility of Spirit: A Forgotten Ideal." The author puts forward the idea that
human dignity and freedom are imperiled in today's world, with nobility of spirit, the quintessence of a
civilized life, scarcely considered and slipping away. Yet you do embody that quality. And I appreciate it.

Sounds like a good book.
I appreciate the kind words as they are an encouragement to me that God is indeed at work in me. PTL.

 

[Cameron143]

I see it that Abraham had information that God doesn't share with Moses when God gave the Torah to Moses.

In fact, the account from the Book of Jasher goes into great detail about the Genesis account where we get the highlight of what happened.

But knowing that David and Joshua mention the Book of Jasher kind of makes me think that God knew people like me would read Jasher and learn the difference which actually gives more information about what we read in the Torah.

It's obvious the Hebrew/Jews were aware of this and kept both Genesis/Bereshit and Jasher holy because God gave them both accounts.

What information did Abraham have that Moses didn't?

 

[Magenta]

Sounds like a good book.
I appreciate the kind words as they are an encouragement to me that God is indeed at work in me. PTL.

I do apologize in advance if my recognition of God working in your life
furthers stirs up the aggression and hostility of those who love to hate you...

PS~ the book sounds humanistic tho it is what came up when I did a search for nobility of spirit.

 

[Kroogz]

I remember Paul saying, "woe to me if I do not preach".

So even the elect can disqualify themselves if they do not perform.

We can disqualify ourselves from our election(service.) But our salvation is ROCK SOLID. We will never perish.

 

[Cameron143]

I do apologize in advance if my recognition of God working in your life
furthers stirs up the aggression and hostility of those who love to hate you...

PS~ the book sounds humanistic tho it is what came up when I searched out nobility of spirit.

Think threshing floor and rejoice.

 

[Genez]

God is omniscient?
Correct!

So... Even if you believe that man has no free will?

God in His omniscience is still able to see us as if we had free will.
And... He alone is able to determine who would believe in Him having free will.

Therefore... Salvation is still determined by our choice.
Salvation based upon God's ability to know who is sane in regard to who and what God is!

There is no merit in having believed in the Lord. Nothing to boast about.
It would be like someone winning the lottery, and then boasting how great he is
simply because he decided to buy a ticket.

Anyone could have done it! No skill in winning!

Where is the boasting in getting saved when anyone alive could have done so?

How is believing in the Lord is a work?
Is falling in love with the perfect person for you, a work???

Stabilized sanity is the Divine goal... in a world constantly pressuring us to be insane.

In Christ Jesus.....