If Jesus did not send the comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, until after he ascended and there are those saints in the old testament that had the Holy Spirit dwelling within them, there would seem to be some difference in the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost. I am still studying to try and find out what that difference is. I have always thought they were the same, but I think "THE COMFORTER" may make a distinction in their function. So, I started the thread to try and get some of you guy and gals ideas.
Is there a difference between the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost?
- Thread starter ForestGreenCook
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The words "within him" are translated from one Hebrew word בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ [bə·qir·bōw].
The Hebrew word בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ [bə·qir·bōw] relates to Moses and the people (those which were brought up out of the sea) in Isaiah 63:11 — I believe the word means in the midst, among (within as in "many", not within as in "one").
I have looked at the verse in other versions of the Bible. KJV uses the the words "within him" in translating the Hebrew to English. However, most other versions translate בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ [bə·qir·bōw] as "within them":
NIV
Then his people recalled the days of old, the days of Moses and his people-- where is he who brought them through the sea, with the shepherd of his flock? Where is he who set his Holy Spirit among them
NLT
Then they remembered those days of old when Moses led his people out of Egypt. They cried out, "Where is the one who brought Israel through the sea, with Moses as their shepherd? Where is the one who sent his Holy Spirit to be among his people
ESV
Then he remembered the days of old, of Moses and his people. Where is he who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of his flock? Where is he who put in the midst of them his Holy Spirit
NASB
Then His people remembered the days of old, of Moses. Where is He who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of His flock? Where is He who put His Holy Spirit in the midst of them
ISV
Then they remembered the days of old, of Moses his servant. Where is the one who brought up out of the sea the shepherds of his flock? Where is the one who put his Holy Spirit among them
These verses were brought to my mind. Hope/pray they shed some light:
Numbers 11:
16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Gather unto me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom thou knowest to be the elders of the people, and officers over them; and bring them unto the tabernacle of the congregation, that they may stand there with thee.
17 And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with thee, that thou bear it not thyself alone.
...
24 And Moses went out, and told the people the words of the LORD, and gathered the seventy men of the elders of the people, and set them round about the tabernacle.
25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.
We also see in 1 Kings 19:15-16 And the LORD said unto him [Elijah], Go, return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus: and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria: And Jehu the son of Nimshi shalt thou anoint to be king over Israel: and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abelmeholah shalt thou anoint to be prophet in thy room.
In OT, priests, kings and prophets were anointed by another man.
That is not how we receive Holy Spirit in our day and time. From Day of Pentecost on, we are born again and have Holy Spirit indwelling. Not just upon us and not from one person to another. But within us and sent from Father (according to John 14:26, 15:26).
In 1 John 2:27 we are told But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you
In our day and time, the anointing is from Him (God) and the Holy Spirit is an indwelling, an abiding (remaining within).
The Hebrew word בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ [bə·qir·bōw] relates to Moses and the people (those which were brought up out of the sea) in Isaiah 63:11 — I believe the word means in the midst, among (within as in "many", not within as in "one").
I have looked at the verse in other versions of the Bible. KJV uses the the words "within him" in translating the Hebrew to English. However, most other versions translate בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ [bə·qir·bōw] as "within them":
NIV
Then his people recalled the days of old, the days of Moses and his people-- where is he who brought them through the sea, with the shepherd of his flock? Where is he who set his Holy Spirit among them
NLT
Then they remembered those days of old when Moses led his people out of Egypt. They cried out, "Where is the one who brought Israel through the sea, with Moses as their shepherd? Where is the one who sent his Holy Spirit to be among his people
ESV
Then he remembered the days of old, of Moses and his people. Where is he who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of his flock? Where is he who put in the midst of them his Holy Spirit
NASB
Then His people remembered the days of old, of Moses. Where is He who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of His flock? Where is He who put His Holy Spirit in the midst of them
ISV
Then they remembered the days of old, of Moses his servant. Where is the one who brought up out of the sea the shepherds of his flock? Where is the one who put his Holy Spirit among them
These verses were brought to my mind. Hope/pray they shed some light:
Numbers 11:
16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Gather unto me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom thou knowest to be the elders of the people, and officers over them; and bring them unto the tabernacle of the congregation, that they may stand there with thee.
17 And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with thee, that thou bear it not thyself alone.
...
24 And Moses went out, and told the people the words of the LORD, and gathered the seventy men of the elders of the people, and set them round about the tabernacle.
25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.
We also see in 1 Kings 19:15-16 And the LORD said unto him [Elijah], Go, return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus: and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria: And Jehu the son of Nimshi shalt thou anoint to be king over Israel: and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abelmeholah shalt thou anoint to be prophet in thy room.
In OT, priests, kings and prophets were anointed by another man.
That is not how we receive Holy Spirit in our day and time. From Day of Pentecost on, we are born again and have Holy Spirit indwelling. Not just upon us and not from one person to another. But within us and sent from Father (according to John 14:26, 15:26).
In 1 John 2:27 we are told But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you
In our day and time, the anointing is from Him (God) and the Holy Spirit is an indwelling, an abiding (remaining within).
When we look at the words in the Greek, in all uses of the words "Holy Ghost" or "Holy Spirit" the words "ghost" and "spirit" are translated from one Greek word — pneuma.
That the translators used the word "spirit" or "ghost" indiscriminately in their interpretation does not change the fact that hagios pneuma means "Holy Spirit".
Did you read the whole post submitted at Post #70?
The words "within him" in Isaiah 63:11 are translated from one Hebrew word: בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ [bə·qir·bōw].
The word "him" was supplied by the translators.
The translators of the KJV chose to translate the Hebrew word בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ as "within him".
The translators of other versions chose to translate the Hebrew word בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ as "among them", "among his people", "in the midst of them".
You choose to hold to the translation used in KJV. I choose to hold to the translation used in other versions.
I believe the meaning of Isaiah 63:11 is that the words "where is he that put his holy Spirit within him" relate to God having "put His Holy Spirit within" (Heb בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ [bə·qir·bōw] among, in the midst) of the people, as opposed to "within" one individual.
If you would look at the words in the Greek, the word "GHOST" is the word Pneuma.
Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
In Luke 11:13, the words "Holy Spirit" are the Greek words Hagios Pneuma.
The words Hagios Pneuma are translated Holy Ghost in John 14:26.
The exact same words translated one way in one verse and another way in another verse.
I do not know why translators chose to translate the word pneuma as "spirit" in one verse and "ghost" in another verse. All that does is result in confusion.
That the translators used the word "spirit" or "ghost" indiscriminately in their interpretation does not change the fact that hagios pneuma means "Holy Spirit".
Did you read the whole post submitted at Post #70?
The words "within him" in Isaiah 63:11 are translated from one Hebrew word: בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ [bə·qir·bōw].
The word "him" was supplied by the translators.
The translators of the KJV chose to translate the Hebrew word בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ as "within him".
The translators of other versions chose to translate the Hebrew word בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ as "among them", "among his people", "in the midst of them".
You choose to hold to the translation used in KJV. I choose to hold to the translation used in other versions.
I believe the meaning of Isaiah 63:11 is that the words "where is he that put his holy Spirit within him" relate to God having "put His Holy Spirit within" (Heb בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ [bə·qir·bōw] among, in the midst) of the people, as opposed to "within" one individual.
If you would look at the words in the Greek, the word "GHOST" is the word Pneuma.
Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
In Luke 11:13, the words "Holy Spirit" are the Greek words Hagios Pneuma.
The words Hagios Pneuma are translated Holy Ghost in John 14:26.
The exact same words translated one way in one verse and another way in another verse.
I do not know why translators chose to translate the word pneuma as "spirit" in one verse and "ghost" in another verse. All that does is result in confusion.
Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh
In Ezekiel 11:19, the words "within you" are translated from the Hebrew word בְּקִרְבְּכֶ֑ם [bə-qir-bə-ḵem].
Isaiah 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?
In Isaiah 63:11, the Hebrew word is בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ [bə-qir-bōw].
So there is a difference in the Hebrew words used in Ez 11:19 and Is 63:11.
בְּקִרְבְּכֶ֑ם – bə-qir-bə-ḵem in Ezekiel 11:19
בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ – bə-qir-bōw in Isaiah 63:11
In Ezekiel 11:19, the words "within you" are translated from the Hebrew word בְּקִרְבְּכֶ֑ם [bə-qir-bə-ḵem].
Isaiah 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?
In Isaiah 63:11, the Hebrew word is בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ [bə-qir-bōw].
So there is a difference in the Hebrew words used in Ez 11:19 and Is 63:11.
בְּקִרְבְּכֶ֑ם – bə-qir-bə-ḵem in Ezekiel 11:19
בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ – bə-qir-bōw in Isaiah 63:11
The Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost are not the same.
Of course it is written that those who don't know they don't know can't began to learn of that which they didn't know until they told of that which they didn't know.
While this precept is written in the scriptures, those who claim the Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost are the same don't know that they don't know, nor can they show in the scriptures where it is written that unless one is told of that which they don't know then they don't know.
Of course it is written that those who don't know they don't know can't began to learn of that which they didn't know until they told of that which they didn't know.
While this precept is written in the scriptures, those who claim the Holy Spirit and Holy Ghost are the same don't know that they don't know, nor can they show in the scriptures where it is written that unless one is told of that which they don't know then they don't know.
L
Actually the KJV uses both the below verse is still speaking about the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit.
John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
The translators screwed up by using 2 different words for the Greek word. They are synonyms but normally translators choose a word and stick to it to avoid contraversy. That is why I like AMPC. It gives extra meanings in parantheses. To me it is almost as good as a Greek to English with a Greek text.
PS: The new Testament is written in Judeo Koine Greek. The Jews put in Hebrew concepts and phrasing contrary to plain Greek. In modern day Yiddish is German with these same Hebrew phrased concepts. Any time Jews went to a country they did this to the language of the country they lived in. They do this to English when talking to each other about religious concepts. We just pass it off as theological terms.
PS: The new Testament is written in Judeo Koine Greek. The Jews put in Hebrew concepts and phrasing contrary to plain Greek. In modern day Yiddish is German with these same Hebrew phrased concepts. Any time Jews went to a country they did this to the language of the country they lived in. They do this to English when talking to each other about religious concepts. We just pass it off as theological terms.
L
These are interesting verses as well.
1 Peter 1
10Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 12Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
1 Peter 1
10Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 12Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
Regular Koine Greek or Judean Koine Greek? There is a difference. The new Testament was written in Judean Koine Greek. It has Hebrew modifying the language used. Today Yiddish is Judean German. They modify English the same way but we think about that as theological concepts. English is a language that has many different types of rules coming from the original Celtic with Latin added by the Romans, German added by the Saxons, and last French added by the Angles. Anglo-Saxon added on top of Roman Celtic. Adding in the religious Hebrew concepts is just part of the language today. We have the hardest language to learn. Rules, exceptions to the rules, exceptions to the exceptions ad nauseam. Other languages only have the rules. We ended up with rules from several languages. I have 4 cacti in my front yard. Why is cacti the plural of cactus? A few years ago the plural was cactae with the ae pronounced I. That comes from Latin masculine single and plural. I took Latin in HS. A Latin rule.