I believe they did have the Holy Spirit.. But they recieved it for the duration of the time they went out to preach the message and perform the miracles.. They did not retain the Holy Spirit from that time onward.. If they did then they would not have needed to recieve the Holy Spirit on the Day of penticost because they would have already had it.. So that episode for them having the Holy Spirit was only for a duration and was only to perform the task Jesus had sent them out to do..
Is there a difference between the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost?
- Thread starter ForestGreenCook
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Mark 6:7
And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits.
And other verses in the four gospels say them same similier thing. power and authority doesn't mean given the Holy Spirit.
As another poster has mentioned just the name Jesus has power and authority. So when the disciples got sent out they didn't have the Holy Spirit because scripture doesn't say they did just that Jesus sent them power and authority through his name not that they recieved anything.
We can say they did not have the holy spirit before Pentecost because scripture doesn't give any clues they did, for we all know the name Jesus has power and authority so the concept they did is pure speculation.
And he called unto him the twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits.
And other verses in the four gospels say them same similier thing. power and authority doesn't mean given the Holy Spirit.
As another poster has mentioned just the name Jesus has power and authority. So when the disciples got sent out they didn't have the Holy Spirit because scripture doesn't say they did just that Jesus sent them power and authority through his name not that they recieved anything.
We can say they did not have the holy spirit before Pentecost because scripture doesn't give any clues they did, for we all know the name Jesus has power and authority so the concept they did is pure speculation.
Why must there and what kind of a difference?
Like for instance we know that when a person dies either before they die they are given a new born again spirit, soul and new heart according to Ezekiel....
Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them
Or their temporal corrupted spirit returns to the father who gave it and the body returns to the dust from where it was from.
The latter will not rise to new spirit life and receive the promise of their new incorruptible body .A body without a spirit is dead never to rise to new spirit life.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
The prior who have been given a new spirit that causes or enables us work out that which he has freely given us....As the Spirit works in us to cause us to walk in his statues . (both will and do) For it is God's Spirit in them that works to both will and do His good pleasure.(imputed righteousness)
The Old testament saints that did have the Holy Spirit in them were promised because they did have the Holy Spirit he would fulfill the promise of opening up their graves as the glory that followed.
If the Holy Spirit was not in them they could not rise as the promised glory (no spirit life) . They received the end of their faith or believed to the salvation of their soul just as us today . We look back by the Spirit that dwells in us to that promise they looked ahead by the same Holy Spirit.
The idea of the Holy Spirit not given before Acts 2 is simply not a biblical teaching.
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what "manner of time" the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.1 Peter 1: 9-11
The manner of time is when Christ said... "it was finished" the veil was rent the graves were opened .It was the time of reformation spoken of in Hebrews 9 not Pentecost .
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Like for instance we know that when a person dies either before they die they are given a new born again spirit, soul and new heart according to Ezekiel....
Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them
Or their temporal corrupted spirit returns to the father who gave it and the body returns to the dust from where it was from.
The latter will not rise to new spirit life and receive the promise of their new incorruptible body .A body without a spirit is dead never to rise to new spirit life.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
The prior who have been given a new spirit that causes or enables us work out that which he has freely given us....As the Spirit works in us to cause us to walk in his statues . (both will and do) For it is God's Spirit in them that works to both will and do His good pleasure.(imputed righteousness)
The Old testament saints that did have the Holy Spirit in them were promised because they did have the Holy Spirit he would fulfill the promise of opening up their graves as the glory that followed.
If the Holy Spirit was not in them they could not rise as the promised glory (no spirit life) . They received the end of their faith or believed to the salvation of their soul just as us today . We look back by the Spirit that dwells in us to that promise they looked ahead by the same Holy Spirit.
The idea of the Holy Spirit not given before Acts 2 is simply not a biblical teaching.
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what "manner of time" the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.1 Peter 1: 9-11
The manner of time is when Christ said... "it was finished" the veil was rent the graves were opened .It was the time of reformation spoken of in Hebrews 9 not Pentecost .
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The Spirit was in them but not of them.
2 Corinthians 4:7But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of "us".
God who does not dwell in temples made from human hands is not served by human hands as a will. He can use a unbeliever just as well as one that does have new born again faith to bring his gospel . Men can plant the seed of His word and water it with the water of the word (doctrines of God) He alone causes the increase if there is any.
When the ones that do not have the power of Christ in them make claims as if it was of them . Christ would call them "workers of iniquity" (or those who blaspheme) . He does not say they did not perform the good works of prophesying and the prophecy did not cast out demons .But just that they blaspheme his authority by accrediting the work to themselves. (self righteous)
Marvellous are His works... not of our selves.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.mathew 7:22-23
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The words "within him" are translated from one Hebrew word בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ [bə·qir·bōw].
The Hebrew word בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ [bə·qir·bōw] relates to Moses and the people (those which were brought up out of the sea) in Isaiah 63:11 — I believe the word means in the midst, among (within as in "many", not within as in "one").
I have looked at the verse in other versions of the Bible. KJV uses the the words "within him" in translating the Hebrew to English. However, most other versions translate בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ [bə·qir·bōw] as "within them":
NIV
Then his people recalled the days of old, the days of Moses and his people-- where is he who brought them through the sea, with the shepherd of his flock? Where is he who set his Holy Spirit among them
NLT
Then they remembered those days of old when Moses led his people out of Egypt. They cried out, "Where is the one who brought Israel through the sea, with Moses as their shepherd? Where is the one who sent his Holy Spirit to be among his people
ESV
Then he remembered the days of old, of Moses and his people. Where is he who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of his flock? Where is he who put in the midst of them his Holy Spirit
NASB
Then His people remembered the days of old, of Moses. Where is He who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of His flock? Where is He who put His Holy Spirit in the midst of them
ISV
Then they remembered the days of old, of Moses his servant. Where is the one who brought up out of the sea the shepherds of his flock? Where is the one who put his Holy Spirit among them
These verses were brought to my mind. Hope/pray they shed some light:
Numbers 11:
16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Gather unto me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom thou knowest to be the elders of the people, and officers over them; and bring them unto the tabernacle of the congregation, that they may stand there with thee.
17 And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with thee, that thou bear it not thyself alone.
...
24 And Moses went out, and told the people the words of the LORD, and gathered the seventy men of the elders of the people, and set them round about the tabernacle.
25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.
We also see in 1 Kings 19:15-16 And the LORD said unto him [Elijah], Go, return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus: and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria: And Jehu the son of Nimshi shalt thou anoint to be king over Israel: and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abelmeholah shalt thou anoint to be prophet in thy room.
In OT, priests, kings and prophets were anointed by another man.
That is not how we receive Holy Spirit in our day and time. From Day of Pentecost on, we are born again and have Holy Spirit indwelling. Not just upon us and not from one person to another. But within us and sent from Father (according to John 14:26, 15:26).
In 1 John 2:27 we are told But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you
In our day and time, the anointing is from Him (God) and the Holy Spirit is an indwelling, an abiding (remaining within).
The Hebrew word בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ [bə·qir·bōw] relates to Moses and the people (those which were brought up out of the sea) in Isaiah 63:11 — I believe the word means in the midst, among (within as in "many", not within as in "one").
I have looked at the verse in other versions of the Bible. KJV uses the the words "within him" in translating the Hebrew to English. However, most other versions translate בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ [bə·qir·bōw] as "within them":
NIV
Then his people recalled the days of old, the days of Moses and his people-- where is he who brought them through the sea, with the shepherd of his flock? Where is he who set his Holy Spirit among them
NLT
Then they remembered those days of old when Moses led his people out of Egypt. They cried out, "Where is the one who brought Israel through the sea, with Moses as their shepherd? Where is the one who sent his Holy Spirit to be among his people
ESV
Then he remembered the days of old, of Moses and his people. Where is he who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of his flock? Where is he who put in the midst of them his Holy Spirit
NASB
Then His people remembered the days of old, of Moses. Where is He who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of His flock? Where is He who put His Holy Spirit in the midst of them
ISV
Then they remembered the days of old, of Moses his servant. Where is the one who brought up out of the sea the shepherds of his flock? Where is the one who put his Holy Spirit among them
These verses were brought to my mind. Hope/pray they shed some light:
Numbers 11:
16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Gather unto me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom thou knowest to be the elders of the people, and officers over them; and bring them unto the tabernacle of the congregation, that they may stand there with thee.
17 And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with thee, that thou bear it not thyself alone.
...
24 And Moses went out, and told the people the words of the LORD, and gathered the seventy men of the elders of the people, and set them round about the tabernacle.
25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.
We also see in 1 Kings 19:15-16 And the LORD said unto him [Elijah], Go, return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus: and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria: And Jehu the son of Nimshi shalt thou anoint to be king over Israel: and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abelmeholah shalt thou anoint to be prophet in thy room.
In OT, priests, kings and prophets were anointed by another man.
That is not how we receive Holy Spirit in our day and time. From Day of Pentecost on, we are born again and have Holy Spirit indwelling. Not just upon us and not from one person to another. But within us and sent from Father (according to John 14:26, 15:26).
In 1 John 2:27 we are told But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you
In our day and time, the anointing is from Him (God) and the Holy Spirit is an indwelling, an abiding (remaining within).
We know there is a difference between before Day of Pentecost and after Day of Pentecost because Jesus said He had to go away in order for the Comforter to come (John 16:7). And we know the Comforter is the Holy Spirit because Jesus explained this in John 14:26. We know the Holy Spirit of the NT is the same Holy Spirit of the NT because Eph 4:2 tells us there is one Spirit.
So we know the Holy Spirit is the same before and after Day of Pentecost.
But we know there is a difference.
What is the difference?
So we know the Holy Spirit is the same before and after Day of Pentecost.
But we know there is a difference.
What is the difference?
So you reply to a post I submitted in reply to LPT and completely ignore the post I submitted in response to your statement concerning whether the Holy Spirit was "within" or "upon" OT believers?
In Post #70, I specifically addressed your assertion concerning "within" or "upon". Would you please reply to Post #70? Thank you.
In Post #70, I specifically addressed your assertion concerning "within" or "upon". Would you please reply to Post #70? Thank you.