Is there a difference between the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost?

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L

LPT

Guest
Hmm interesting word the Hebrew word בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ [bə·qir·bōw] Depending on context it's used in different ways

Zechariah 12:1
The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
 
L

LPT

Guest
Good Lord quite the various ways of using the word.

bə·qir·bōw — 21 Occurrences

Genesis 24:3
HEB: אָנֹכִ֖י יוֹשֵׁ֥ב בְּקִרְבּֽוֹ׃
NAS: of the Canaanites, among whom
KJV: of the Canaanites, among whom I dwell:
INT: I live among

Exodus 3:20
HEB: אֲשֶׁ֥ר אֶֽעֱשֶׂ֖ה בְּקִרְבּ֑וֹ וְאַחֲרֵי־ כֵ֖ן
NAS: I shall do in the midst of it; and after
KJV: which I will do in the midst thereof: and after
INT: which shall do the midst and after after that

Exodus 23:21
HEB: כִּ֥י שְׁמִ֖י בְּקִרְבּֽוֹ׃
KJV: for my name [is] in him.
INT: since my name him

Numbers 11:4
HEB: וְהָֽאסַפְסֻף֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר בְּקִרְבּ֔וֹ הִתְאַוּ֖וּ תַּאֲוָ֑ה
NAS: who were among them had
KJV: And the mixt multitude that [was] among them fell a lusting:
INT: the rabble who were among had greedy

Numbers 11:21
HEB: אֲשֶׁ֥ר אָנֹכִ֖י בְּקִרְבּ֑וֹ וְאַתָּ֣ה אָמַ֗רְתָּ
NAS: The people, among whom
KJV: The people, among whom I [am], [are] six
INT: after I among You have said

Numbers 14:11
HEB: אֲשֶׁ֥ר עָשִׂ֖יתִי בְּקִרְבּֽוֹ׃
NAS: which I have performed in their midst?
KJV: which I have shewed among them?
INT: which have performed among

Deuteronomy 31:16
HEB: בָא־ שָׁ֙מָּה֙ בְּקִרְבּ֔וֹ וַעֲזָבַ֕נִי וְהֵפֵר֙
NAS: of the land, into the midst of which
KJV: whither they go [to be] among them, and will forsake
INT: are going into the midst and will forsake and break

Joshua 24:5
HEB: כַּאֲשֶׁ֥ר עָשִׂ֖יתִי בְּקִרְבּ֑וֹ וְאַחַ֖ר הוֹצֵ֥אתִי
NAS: I did in its midst; and afterward
KJV: I did among them: and afterward
INT: what did midst and afterward brought

Judges 1:29
HEB: וַיֵּ֧שֶׁב הַֽכְּנַעֲנִ֛י בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ בְּגָֽזֶר׃ פ
NAS: lived in Gezer among them.
KJV: dwelt in Gezer among them.
INT: lived the Canaanites among Gezer

Judges 1:30
HEB: וַיֵּ֤שֶׁב הַֽכְּנַעֲנִי֙ בְּקִרְבּ֔וֹ וַיִּֽהְי֖וּ לָמַֽס׃
NAS: lived among them and became
KJV: dwelt among them, and became tributaries.
INT: lived the Canaanites among and became to forced

1 Samuel 25:37
HEB: וַיָּ֤מָת לִבּוֹ֙ בְּקִרְבּ֔וֹ וְה֖וּא הָיָ֥ה
NAS: died within him so that he became
KJV: died within him, and he became [as] a stone.
INT: died and his heart within he became

1 Kings 3:28
HEB: חָכְמַ֧ת אֱלֹהִ֛ים בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ לַעֲשׂ֥וֹת מִשְׁפָּֽט׃
KJV: of God [was] in him, to do
INT: the wisdom of God him to administer justice

Job 20:14
HEB: מְרוֹרַ֖ת פְּתָנִ֣ים בְּקִרְבּֽוֹ׃
NAS: To the venom of cobras within him.
KJV: [it is] the gall of asps within him.
INT: to the venom of cobras within

Psalm 109:18
HEB: וַתָּבֹ֣א כַמַּ֣יִם בְּקִרְבּ֑וֹ וְ֝כַשֶּׁ֗מֶן בְּעַצְמוֹתָֽיו׃
NAS: And it entered into his body like water
KJV: so let it come into his bowels like water,
INT: entered water his body oil his bones

Isaiah 19:1
HEB: מִצְרַ֖יִם יִמַּ֥ס בְּקִרְבּֽוֹ׃
NAS: will melt within them.
KJV: shall melt in the midst of it.
INT: of the Egyptians will melt within

Isaiah 19:3
HEB: רֽוּחַ־ מִצְרַ֙יִם֙ בְּקִרְבּ֔וֹ וַעֲצָת֖וֹ אֲבַלֵּ֑עַ
NAS: will be demoralized within them; And I will confound
KJV: shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy
INT: the spirit of the Egyptians within their strategy will confound

Isaiah 25:11
HEB: וּפֵרַ֤שׂ יָדָיו֙ בְּקִרְבּ֔וֹ כַּאֲשֶׁ֛ר יְפָרֵ֥שׂ
NAS: out his hands in the middle of it As a swimmer
KJV: his hands in the midst of them, as he that swimmeth
INT: will spread his hands the middle after spreads

Isaiah 29:23
HEB: מַעֲשֵׂ֥ה יָדַ֛י בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ יַקְדִּ֣ישֽׁוּ שְׁמִ֑י
NAS: of My hands, in his midst, They will sanctify
KJV: of mine hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify
INT: the work of my hands his midst will sanctify my name

Isaiah 63:11
HEB: אַיֵּ֛ה הַשָּׂ֥ם בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ אֶת־ ר֥וּחַ
NAS: His Holy Spirit in the midst of them,
KJV: his holy Spirit within him?
INT: Where put the midst Spirit his Holy

Habakkuk 2:19
HEB: ר֖וּחַ אֵ֥ין בְּקִרְבּֽוֹ׃
NAS: breath at all inside it.
KJV: and [there is] no breath at all in the midst of it.
INT: breath and there inside

Zechariah 12:1
HEB: רֽוּחַ־ אָדָ֖ם בְּקִרְבּֽוֹ׃ פ
NAS: the spirit of man within him,
KJV: the spirit of man within him.
INT: the spirit of man within
 

Zmouth

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Nov 21, 2012
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Ex. The KJV translators translated Pneuma as Holy Spirit 7 times (representing completeness) but its translated Holy Ghost 90 times (representing fruit bearing). This was done purposely to tie those numbers to the words. Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit are the same.
Interesting, yet how many times does the LORD need sayeth what ye seeth?

And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Genesis 1:2

For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not. Job 33:14​

But when they saw him walking upon the sea, they supposed it had been a spirit, and cried out: Mark 6:49

  • Note: I guess one could suppose it was a pnuema walking upon the sea but interestingly enough this spirit is from the Greek word phantasma: [NT5326] or better defined as being from NT:5324; (properly concrete) a (mere) show ("phantasm"), i.e. spectre:
  • Which phantasma, or fántasma ( φάντασμα) which translated in Latin is 'phasma', which one might take into consideration as being the Holy Ghost. But I would suggest the 'phasma' is better described in Colossians 1:15, "Who is the image of the invisible God, ..."
Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit are the same.
So the Holy Spirit only hath immortality and isn't eternal?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Good Lord quite the various ways of using the word.

bə·qir·bōw — 21 Occurrences

Genesis 24:3
HEB: אָנֹכִ֖י יוֹשֵׁ֥ב בְּקִרְבּֽוֹ׃
NAS: of the Canaanites, among whom
KJV: of the Canaanites, among whom I dwell:
INT: I live among

Exodus 3:20
HEB: אֲשֶׁ֥ר אֶֽעֱשֶׂ֖ה בְּקִרְבּ֑וֹ וְאַחֲרֵי־ כֵ֖ן
NAS: I shall do in the midst of it; and after
KJV: which I will do in the midst thereof: and after
INT: which shall do the midst and after after that

Exodus 23:21
HEB: כִּ֥י שְׁמִ֖י בְּקִרְבּֽוֹ׃
KJV: for my name [is] in him.
INT: since my name him

Numbers 11:4
HEB: וְהָֽאסַפְסֻף֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר בְּקִרְבּ֔וֹ הִתְאַוּ֖וּ תַּאֲוָ֑ה
NAS: who were among them had
KJV: And the mixt multitude that [was] among them fell a lusting:
INT: the rabble who were among had greedy

Numbers 11:21
HEB: אֲשֶׁ֥ר אָנֹכִ֖י בְּקִרְבּ֑וֹ וְאַתָּ֣ה אָמַ֗רְתָּ
NAS: The people, among whom
KJV: The people, among whom I [am], [are] six
INT: after I among You have said

Numbers 14:11
HEB: אֲשֶׁ֥ר עָשִׂ֖יתִי בְּקִרְבּֽוֹ׃
NAS: which I have performed in their midst?
KJV: which I have shewed among them?
INT: which have performed among

Deuteronomy 31:16
HEB: בָא־ שָׁ֙מָּה֙ בְּקִרְבּ֔וֹ וַעֲזָבַ֕נִי וְהֵפֵר֙
NAS: of the land, into the midst of which
KJV: whither they go [to be] among them, and will forsake
INT: are going into the midst and will forsake and break

Joshua 24:5
HEB: כַּאֲשֶׁ֥ר עָשִׂ֖יתִי בְּקִרְבּ֑וֹ וְאַחַ֖ר הוֹצֵ֥אתִי
NAS: I did in its midst; and afterward
KJV: I did among them: and afterward
INT: what did midst and afterward brought

Judges 1:29
HEB: וַיֵּ֧שֶׁב הַֽכְּנַעֲנִ֛י בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ בְּגָֽזֶר׃ פ
NAS: lived in Gezer among them.
KJV: dwelt in Gezer among them.
INT: lived the Canaanites among Gezer

Judges 1:30
HEB: וַיֵּ֤שֶׁב הַֽכְּנַעֲנִי֙ בְּקִרְבּ֔וֹ וַיִּֽהְי֖וּ לָמַֽס׃
NAS: lived among them and became
KJV: dwelt among them, and became tributaries.
INT: lived the Canaanites among and became to forced

1 Samuel 25:37
HEB: וַיָּ֤מָת לִבּוֹ֙ בְּקִרְבּ֔וֹ וְה֖וּא הָיָ֥ה
NAS: died within him so that he became
KJV: died within him, and he became [as] a stone.
INT: died and his heart within he became

1 Kings 3:28
HEB: חָכְמַ֧ת אֱלֹהִ֛ים בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ לַעֲשׂ֥וֹת מִשְׁפָּֽט׃
KJV: of God [was] in him, to do
INT: the wisdom of God him to administer justice

Job 20:14
HEB: מְרוֹרַ֖ת פְּתָנִ֣ים בְּקִרְבּֽוֹ׃
NAS: To the venom of cobras within him.
KJV: [it is] the gall of asps within him.
INT: to the venom of cobras within

Psalm 109:18
HEB: וַתָּבֹ֣א כַמַּ֣יִם בְּקִרְבּ֑וֹ וְ֝כַשֶּׁ֗מֶן בְּעַצְמוֹתָֽיו׃
NAS: And it entered into his body like water
KJV: so let it come into his bowels like water,
INT: entered water his body oil his bones

Isaiah 19:1
HEB: מִצְרַ֖יִם יִמַּ֥ס בְּקִרְבּֽוֹ׃
NAS: will melt within them.
KJV: shall melt in the midst of it.
INT: of the Egyptians will melt within

Isaiah 19:3
HEB: רֽוּחַ־ מִצְרַ֙יִם֙ בְּקִרְבּ֔וֹ וַעֲצָת֖וֹ אֲבַלֵּ֑עַ
NAS: will be demoralized within them; And I will confound
KJV: shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy
INT: the spirit of the Egyptians within their strategy will confound

Isaiah 25:11
HEB: וּפֵרַ֤שׂ יָדָיו֙ בְּקִרְבּ֔וֹ כַּאֲשֶׁ֛ר יְפָרֵ֥שׂ
NAS: out his hands in the middle of it As a swimmer
KJV: his hands in the midst of them, as he that swimmeth
INT: will spread his hands the middle after spreads

Isaiah 29:23
HEB: מַעֲשֵׂ֥ה יָדַ֛י בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ יַקְדִּ֣ישֽׁוּ שְׁמִ֑י
NAS: of My hands, in his midst, They will sanctify
KJV: of mine hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify
INT: the work of my hands his midst will sanctify my name

Isaiah 63:11
HEB: אַיֵּ֛ה הַשָּׂ֥ם בְּקִרְבּ֖וֹ אֶת־ ר֥וּחַ
NAS: His Holy Spirit in the midst of them,
KJV: his holy Spirit within him?
INT: Where put the midst Spirit his Holy

Habakkuk 2:19
HEB: ר֖וּחַ אֵ֥ין בְּקִרְבּֽוֹ׃
NAS: breath at all inside it.
KJV: and [there is] no breath at all in the midst of it.
INT: breath and there inside

Zechariah 12:1
HEB: רֽוּחַ־ אָדָ֖ם בְּקִרְבּֽוֹ׃ פ
NAS: the spirit of man within him,
KJV: the spirit of man within him.
INT: the spirit of man within
I agree and that’s why I say only God through inspiration can translate his word into different languages.
 
L

LPT

Guest
I agree and that’s why I say only God through inspiration can translate his word into different languages.
From the looks of it, it seems context has a part in its meaning.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
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Interesting, yet how many times does the LORD need sayeth what ye seeth?

And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Genesis 1:2

For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not. Job 33:14​

But when they saw him walking upon the sea, they supposed it had been a spirit, and cried out: Mark 6:49

  • Note: I guess one could suppose it was a pnuema walking upon the sea but interestingly enough this spirit is from the Greek word phantasma: [NT5326] or better defined as being from NT:5324; (properly concrete) a (mere) show ("phantasm"), i.e. spectre:
  • Which phantasma, or fántasma ( φάντασμα) which translated in Latin is 'phasma', which one might take into consideration as being the Holy Ghost. But I would suggest the 'phasma' is better described in Colossians 1:15, "Who is the image of the invisible God, ..."


So the Holy Spirit only hath immortality and isn't eternal?
i think Greek is just like English in that words can have multiple meanings. I think the idea of pneuma is a wind or spirit or something that can’t be touched.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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I believe the instance of Simon Magus (Simon the Sorcerer) is that he was not truly repentant, was thus still unregenerate, and needed to repent. Acts 8:23 "For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity.” " alludes to his being in an unregenerate state. This has nothing to do, imo, and looking at the text and language used, with any "time salvation."
I believe that the scriptures teach, by nature, we are totally depraved, and as a regenerated person we struggle with that battle within ourselves daily. What is your interpretation of the spiritual abilities of the natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2? When the regenerated man yields to his fleshly nature and sins, is he not in the same boat as Simon, in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity? In Acts 8:24 "Then answered Simon, and said, pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things that ye have spoken come upon me". Would this response have come from an unregenerate person? If Simon did not believe in a spiritual God, would he have feared what a spiritual God could do to him?
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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I believe that the scriptures teach, by nature, we are totally depraved, and as a regenerated person we struggle with that battle within ourselves daily. What is your interpretation of the spiritual abilities of the natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2? When the regenerated man yields to his fleshly nature and sins, is he not in the same boat as Simon, in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity? In Acts 8:24 "Then answered Simon, and said, pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things that ye have spoken come upon me". Would this response have come from an unregenerate person? If Simon did not believe in a spiritual God, would he have feared what a spiritual God could do to him?
Yes, we struggle with the flesh for certain. I believe the natural man in 2 Corinthians 2 is speaking of the unregenerate man.

I don't see where whether he believed in a spiritual God question is valid in this case brother, as far as your argument is concerned, though it is a worthy point to be discussed.

I believe it is obvious he believed in spiritual matters and God to some extent as well although it appeared his faith was misplaced. Do not even the lost fear God, believing he exists, fear hell, fear falling into the hands of a just God, and can even express said fear, though unrepentant?

Here is John Gill on the matter of the text:

For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness,.... Alluding to Deu_29:18 with which compare Heb_12:15 and signifying, that he was in a state of nature and unregeneracy; under the power and dominion of covetousness, ambition, and hypocrisy; and in a way pernicious to himself, infectious to others, and ungrateful to God, and to good men; and that instead of the root of the matter, the truth of grace being in him, there was nothing in him but the bitter root of sin; which bore gall and wormwood, and everything that was nauseous and disagreeable:

and in the bond of iniquity; referring to Pro_5:22 and suggesting, that he was held fast bound in the bonds of sin, and with the cords of iniquity, or was entirely under the government of his lusts: the preposition εις, which we render "in", may retain here, as is by some observed, its proper sense of "for", or "into"; and have the same signification it has in Heb_1:5 "I will be to him for a father", or "a father", and "he shall be to me for a son", or "a son": and then the sense of Peter is, I plainly perceive and clearly see by thy words and actions, that thou art nothing else but a lump of bitter gall, and a bundle of sin and wickedness.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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Yes, we struggle with the flesh for certain. I believe the natural man in 2 Corinthians 2 is speaking of the unregenerate man.

I don't see where whether he believed in a spiritual God question is valid in this case brother, as far as your argument is concerned, though it is a worthy point to be discussed.

I believe it is obvious he believed in spiritual matters and God to some extent as well although it appeared his faith was misplaced. Do not even the lost fear God, believing he exists, fear hell, fear falling into the hands of a just God, and can even express said fear, though unrepentant?

Here is John Gill on the matter of the text:

For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness,.... Alluding to Deu_29:18 with which compare Heb_12:15 and signifying, that he was in a state of nature and unregeneracy; under the power and dominion of covetousness, ambition, and hypocrisy; and in a way pernicious to himself, infectious to others, and ungrateful to God, and to good men; and that instead of the root of the matter, the truth of grace being in him, there was nothing in him but the bitter root of sin; which bore gall and wormwood, and everything that was nauseous and disagreeable:

and in the bond of iniquity; referring to Pro_5:22 and suggesting, that he was held fast bound in the bonds of sin, and with the cords of iniquity, or was entirely under the government of his lusts: the preposition εις, which we render "in", may retain here, as is by some observed, its proper sense of "for", or "into"; and have the same signification it has in Heb_1:5 "I will be to him for a father", or "a father", and "he shall be to me for a son", or "a son": and then the sense of Peter is, I plainly perceive and clearly see by thy words and actions, that thou art nothing else but a lump of bitter gall, and a bundle of sin and wickedness.
I attended the Primitive baptist church in my youth, but never had ears to hear the revelation of the truth of the doctrine until I was 62 years old, although, at the age of 50, I thought I was smart enough to understand some, seemingly, contradicting scriptures with the salvation scriptures. I bought a Strong's concordance, and used it and the KJV bible as my only source of reference. After 12 years of hard studying I failed to understand anything and came to the assumption that I was not smart enough to figure it out. After I got rid of myself, the Spirit within me began to reveal some truths to me. I said all of this to let you know that I have never referenced any other man's writings, such as Calvin or Gill or any other of man's writings ,other than the KJV bible and Strong's, I do have a different understanding of the ability of the natural man dealing with the matter of spiritual things, as explained in 1 Cor 2:14. In Eph 2 and especially in verse 5, it explains that the natural man was "spiritually dead" at the time he was regenerated. I am a firm believer in the fact that until a person denies himself (his intelligence) God will not reveal the truth of Jesus's doctrine to him. I, therefore, am holding to the fact that Simon demonstrated evidence that he was a depraved child of God who had a lack of the knowledge of doctrinal truths.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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I attended the Primitive baptist church in my youth, but never had ears to hear the revelation of the truth of the doctrine until I was 62 years old, although, at the age of 50, I thought I was smart enough to understand some, seemingly, contradicting scriptures with the salvation scriptures. I bought a Strong's concordance, and used it and the KJV bible as my only source of reference. After 12 years of hard studying I failed to understand anything and came to the assumption that I was not smart enough to figure it out. After I got rid of myself, the Spirit within me began to reveal some truths to me. I said all of this to let you know that I have never referenced any other man's writings, such as Calvin or Gill or any other of man's writings ,other than the KJV bible and Strong's, I do have a different understanding of the ability of the natural man dealing with the matter of spiritual things, as explained in 1 Cor 2:14. In Eph 2 and especially in verse 5, it explains that the natural man was "spiritually dead" at the time he was regenerated. I am a firm believer in the fact that until a person denies himself (his intelligence) God will not reveal the truth of Jesus's doctrine to him. I, therefore, am holding to the fact that Simon demonstrated evidence that he was a depraved child of God who had a lack of the knowledge of doctrinal truths.
No offense, but that's a bunch of I's up there for a fellow who got rid of himself...

Not referencing other writers is always a prideful statement as God has given these men to us for our learning, Ephesians 4:11-12.

That said not sure what your point is with Ephesians 2:5 or how it bolsters your position. Typically when reading I'll come to conclusions then check what other men have said as a check and balance and for correction. Our conclusions should not be seen as infallible imho.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Question, who is asking the questions in this verse?

Isaiah 63:11-12 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
11 Then His people remembered the days of old, of Moses.
Where is He who brought them up out of the sea with the [a]shepherds of His flock?
Where is He who put His Holy Spirit in the midst of[b]them,
Interesting question.


Isaiah 63:

7 I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, and the praises of the LORD, according to all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses.

8 For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour.

9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.

10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.

11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?


The above is from the KJV. In other versions (NIV, ISV, NET) vs 11 is Then they remembered the days of old, of Moses his servant. Where is the one who brought up out of the sea the shepherds of his flock? Where is the one who put his Holy Spirit among them


Is it the one remembering (then he remembered) who asks?

Or is it the people in their affliction who recall the time of the exodus from Egypt who ask where is He?

What do you think? Who is it that asks the questions in vs 11?
 

ForestGreenCook

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No offense, but that's a bunch of I's up there for a fellow who got rid of himself...

Not referencing other writers is always a prideful statement as God has given these men to us for our learning, Ephesians 4:11-12.

That said not sure what your point is with Ephesians 2:5 or how it bolsters your position. Typically when reading I'll come to conclusions then check what other men have said as a check and balance and for correction. Our conclusions should not be seen as infallible imho.
iiiii am not going to comment on the "no offense" statement. You are giving the natural man in 1 Cor 2 more ability to discern spiritual things than what verse 14 reflects, but if that is the way you want to define it, good luck with harmonizing the scriptures. The natural man was spiritually dead (no fear of a spiritual God). Acts 20:28-30 - Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departure shall grievous wolves, enter in among you, not sparing the flock, also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
 

preacher4truth

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iiiii am not going to comment on the "no offense" statement.
No need, you've been described according to your pride laden self description.

You are giving the natural man in 1 Cor 2 more ability to discern spiritual things than what verse 14 reflects, but if that is the way you want to define it, good luck with harmonizing the scriptures.
Your first false accusation.

That never happened, you're simply attributing regeneration to a man obviously unregenerate. But you do that because you come to conclusions all on your own, and thus make false conclusions. You really need to consult others and stop coming up with erroneous teachings not supported by the text, but apparently you're unteachable by your own admission.

The natural man was spiritually dead (no fear of a spiritual God).
Now you're making up your own definitions.

Acts 20:28-30 - Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departure shall grievous wolves, enter in among you, not sparing the flock, also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
And now you're out of control, misusing and misapplying Scripture. Second false accusation. Typical Primitive Baptist hyper calvinist behavior.
 

ForestGreenCook

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No need, you've been described according to your pride laden self description.



Your first false accusation.

That never happened, you're simply attributing regeneration to a man obviously unregenerate. But you do that because you come to conclusions all on your own, and thus make false conclusions. You really need to consult others and stop coming up with erroneous teachings not supported by the text, but apparently you're unteachable by your own admission.



Now you're making up your own definitions.



And now you're out of control, misusing and misapplying Scripture. Second false accusation. Typical Primitive Baptist hyper calvinist behavior.
Scriptures prove scriptures when rightly dividing the word of truth, such as rightly dividing the meanings of the different salvation, worlds, deaths, spiritual faith. For instance, applying all salvation scriptures to mean eternal salvation will not harmonize with other scriptures. The doctrine that Jesus taught is the most comforting and secure doctrine and allows for more souls in heaven than any of the man made doctrines. I assume that you think of me as an unlearned person in that I do not consider the doctrines of man, but Jesus had some words pertaining to that line of thinking. If you want to base your beliefs upon the intelligence of other men, go ahead, but that is not my mode of study.