Evolution

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Nov 29, 2021
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God didn't use evolution, in the same way that men can't become women. Those who say otherwise risk contributing to the significant damage done to those who believe them.
God did use evolution and those who say otherwise not only deny the findings of nearly 200 years of scientific discovery but unwittingly side with and give amunition to atheists who say that the fact of evolution denies the truth of God. What has men becoming women got to do with it? I assume you're talking about sex change operations which is a surgical/medical/hormonal procedure and has nothing to do with evolution.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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I agree. It appears as though evolution is God's method of creating living things. Credit should go to scientists for discovering this not least because it means that the true message of the bible gets clearer. Christians who refuse to accept evolution and claim that people who do accept it cannot be true belivers are harming people's faith.
Fallacy: equivocation.

If "evolution = change with respect to time", it is acceptable and true. If "evolution = goo to you through the zoo" then it is unquestionably false.

I am not harming your faith by telling you that you are wrong; it is your own fault for believing something that is not true, and I am not doing you any good by telling you otherwise. I will not be party to your delusion, no matter how much your feelings get hurt by hearing the truth.
 
Nov 29, 2021
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Fallacy: equivocation.

If "evolution = change with respect to time", it is acceptable and true. If "evolution = goo to you through the zoo" then it is unquestionably false.

I am not harming your faith by telling you that you are wrong; it is your own fault for believing something that is not true, and I am not doing you any good by telling you otherwise. I will not be party to your delusion, no matter how much your feelings get hurt by hearing the truth.
That's good and neither am I harming yours by telling you that you are wrong.
It is not required to accept evolution to be a Christian but you are still wrong if you deny it. Where is the equivocation in anything I said? In fact it was you who implied the false dichotomy that either "evolution = change with respect to time" or "evolution = goo to you through the zoo". You should look up what equivocation means, I doubt either of those statements are correct.
Have no fear, you are not harming my faith in the slightest nor hurting my feelings. Nor is your delusion affecting me in any way whatsoever. God bless you.
 
Nov 27, 2021
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I am talking about the evolution of the earth, animals and plants, not man from apes or out of some protein and amino acid soup.
 
Nov 29, 2021
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Fallacy: equivocation.

If "evolution = change with respect to time", it is acceptable and true. If "evolution = goo to you through the zoo" then it is unquestionably false.

I am not harming your faith by telling you that you are wrong; it is your own fault for believing something that is not true, and I am not doing you any good by telling you otherwise. I will not be party to your delusion, no matter how much your feelings get hurt by hearing the truth.
By the way, if I had meant "my faith" I wouldn't have said "people's faith". My faith is strong by the grace of God despite the attentions of creationists who I would urge to ask themselves if theirs would be shaken if it could be proven that evolution is factual.
 
Nov 29, 2021
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I am talking about the evolution of the earth, animals and plants, not man from apes or out of some protein and amino acid soup.
The earth did not evolve as only living, reproducing creatures are subject to evolution. Let's leave man out of it for the moment but if plants and animals can evolve (and presumably apes are animals) what did they evolve from and what's to stop them evolving further?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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By the way, if I had meant "my faith" I wouldn't have said "people's faith". My faith is strong by the grace of God despite the attentions of creationists who I would urge to ask themselves if theirs would be shaken if it could be proven that evolution is factual.
Something that is objectively false, such as macroevolution, cannot be proven to be objectively true. ;)
 
Nov 29, 2021
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Something that is objectively false, such as macroevolution, cannot be proven to be objectively true. ;)
And vice versa. Evolution is objectively true and has been demonstrated time and time again. You just refuse to accept it because your closed minded cult tells you that you mustn't. You think that you're contending for the faith but in fact you're just brain-washed.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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And vice versa. Evolution is objectively true and has been demonstrated time and time again. You just refuse to accept it because your closed minded cult tells you that you mustn't. You think that you're contending for the faith but in fact you're just brain-washed.
Bahahaha… cult? No. I do my homework. I pray you will come to understand the truth.
 
Nov 29, 2021
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Bahahaha… cult? No. I do my homework. I pray you will come to understand the truth.
You laugh and mock all you like but I don't think it's very funny. You have done no "homework" at all beyond reading a few biased sources. If you had you would at least know what evolution actually is and not come out with hackneyed nonsense like "evolution = goo to you through the zoo". I don't care what you believe about evolution but to all who come to this thread and read this who know that evolution is a scientific fact, I say there is no need to give up reason and logic to be a Christian. Avoid cults like this person is promoting, follow Jesus who will lead you to all truth and understanding . God bless you all.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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You laugh and mock all you like but I don't think it's very funny. You have done no "homework" at all beyond reading a few biased sources. If you had you would at least know what evolution actually is and not come out with hackneyed nonsense like "evolution = goo to you through the zoo". I don't care what you believe about evolution but to all who come to this thread and read this who know that evolution is a scientific fact, I say there is no need to give up reason and logic to be a Christian. Avoid cults like this person is promoting, follow Jesus who will lead you to all truth and understanding . God bless you all.
I reject macro evolution because I understand logic and science, and am not swayed by unscientific assertions masquerading as science. It’s a pity that offends you.
 
Nov 27, 2021
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The earth did not evolve as only living, reproducing creatures are subject to evolution. Let's leave man out of it for the moment but if plants and animals can evolve (and presumably apes are animals) what did they evolve from and what's to stop them evolving further?
I should have clarified. God created the earth, but left it to do it’s thing, evolve, as well as plants and animals.
 
Nov 29, 2021
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I reject macro evolution because I understand logic and science, and am not swayed by unscientific assertions masquerading as science. It’s a pity that offends you.
Who says it offends me? I am unoffended even by your wilful stupidity and claims that you understand science when you clearly know nothing about it. You are just like the flat earthers, promoting a cult that is seeking to replace the true gospel with one of science denial and that Christians must follow you and believe your lies in order to be saved. May God have mercy upon you.
 
Jan 14, 2021
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And vice versa. Evolution is objectively true and has been demonstrated time and time again. You just refuse to accept it because your closed minded cult tells you that you mustn't. You think that you're contending for the faith but in fact you're just brain-washed.
The endorsement of beliefs is sometimes informed by a perceived utility of the underlying concepts: if something seems useful it is more likely to be accepted. A rejection of macroevolution may come from a perception that it has no utility for predicting future events. If a species of dog further speciates, each new species is still going to be a type of dog (each of which will also have some potential for interbreeding naturally or by medical intervention). It would be simple enough to dismiss speciation as evidence of macroevolution and from there satisfactorily fit speciation observations into a microevolution interpretation.

The rejection of ideas is sometimes driven by cognitive dissonance and ambiguity aversion: the presence of internal mental friction and/or blank spaces in a concept landscape are uncomfortable and avoided by the mind where possible. A literal interpretation of the Genesis creation story is incompatible with the interpretation that all species came from a common lifeform over billions of years. A figurative interpretation of the creation story can be compatible with the concept of all life coming from a common ancestor, but accepting the possibility of a figurative creation story can leave some uncomfortable ambiguity for how other parts of scripture may be interpreted (we tend to also shy away from ambiguity). A literal interpetaton of scripture may also be tied to a feeling or reverence for a teacher one respects. If a person's parents taught them that the creation story is literal, asking them to reject the literal interpetaton is also in a sense asking them to reject their parents (that's a tall order at the best of time, unless we are talking about teenagers).

We should be cautious of what we declare to be objectively true, especially within the context of scientific inquiry. It is fair to say that a model is consistent with empirical observations but we should be cautious of presenting it as an "objective" truth because that might cause some confusion in the broader sense of epistemics or metaphysics. That, and some science is more speculative than others. In the case of speciation from a universally common ancestor, the speculation is based on a backward projection of trends we see currently and additionally assuming that no other factors or mechanisms were in play. It's the same with the Big Bang, the theory relies on the assumption that only the mechanisms in play currently (that are empirically measurable) were ever in play, and creates a backward projection based on current observable trends up to an irreducible complexity within that backward projection (the limit of the curve, approaching negative infinity). These fields of science are more speculative than say chemical science needed to make rubber or rocket fuel. One could accept practical fields of science while rejecting the more speculative fields of science that can't be tested through experimental control. If the conditions of the experiment can't be controlled and repeated, we have likely exited practical science and entered speculative science. Scientific determinations are also going to be more trusted if the end user has the ability to test it out for themselves. Boiling water at different pressures and temperatures is something anyone can do with modern tech and means. Running LHC physics experiments to search for the Higgs Boson and the omnipresent Higgs Field is basically something the common person would have to take someone's word on and is therefore subject to the same scrutiny that would be given to any politician that can be bought, bribed, or blackmailed in order to sway what they state publically.

There is a lot to think about in terms of why a person might hold a firm conviction in their position or rejection of a position. I don't see the rejection of speciation from a universally common ancestor to be a significant danger to science. But certainly we should bring awareness to the fact that such a model does not necessarily contradict scripture and by that the rejection on the basis of scripture is invalid. The topic then moves to the merits and demerits of a literal vs. figurative interpretation of the creation stories. There is usually so much focus on combatting atheistic evolution models that theistic evolution models are often completely overlooked. I think this always comes back to a conversation about scripture.

I think we all help each other out by building perspective together. I think sometimes the right eye and left eye see differently despite looking at the same thing, but through the perspective of both more depth on the subject is fleshed out. And when you think about it, there's not a single unintelligent person on these threads. Even when some rounds of insult ping-pong occasionally make a mess in the heat of the moment, I still have to admire that each of us comes from a long line of intelligent, thoughtful winners leading all the way back through our ancestors and by the grace of God we are here today. Even for those just reading without posting, each of us on these threads had enough passion, patience, intelligence and love in our hearts to wade through each other's comments in hope of gaining, building and contributing perspective.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
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Mainly the scriptures often in the original Greek Language and books that have been written dealing with the topic from Christian writers who have earned the respect of the worldwide Christian Community.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
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Who says it offends me? I am unoffended even by your wilful stupidity and claims that you understand science when you clearly know nothing about it. You are just like the flat earthers, promoting a cult that is seeking to replace the true gospel with one of science denial and that Christians must follow you and believe your lies in order to be saved. May God have mercy upon you.
With all due respect some bloke that is rather a mindless attack and unwarranted.

Do you not realize that your comments are considered by many as willful stupidity?

Do you not realize saying that a person knows nothing about science leaves you open to the accusation that you are quite bereft of scientific knowledge?

Do you not realize that accusing a person of being a member of a cult because they disagree with you shows the shallowness of your arguments?

Do you not realize that because someone disagrees with you over one point does not justify the accusation of denying the true gospel?

Do you not realize in accusing the writer of lies, you yourself can be accused of the same thing?

Do you not realize that you have yet to develop the capacity to make rational arguments in an acceptable way?
 
J

JAPOV

Guest
Ummmm.... I have a question....
Since when does Almighty God need science to validate His will?

What amazes me is how much effort "science" puts into "theoretically" describing "what" God did, without ever actually "defining" how God did it!
 
J

JAPOV

Guest
God created the puzzle you egg-heads! Without Faith, you're never going to figure it out.

Here's another question to twist your "BIG BRAINS". If God created our limited linear universe within His infinite unlimited universe, isn't that proof of "Multiverse Theory"? Also, since our existence is limited by space and time, doesn't it make perfect sense that God can bend time to His will? "A day is as 1000rys, and 1000yrs is as a day..."

Science can't go back in time to prove anything, that's why everything is a "THEORY"...
However, Almighty God, THE CREATOR AND ORIGIN OF ALL THINGS, is not limited by egg-head theories!
 
Nov 29, 2021
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With all due respect some bloke that is rather a mindless attack and unwarranted.

Do you not realize that your comments are considered by many as willful stupidity?

Do you not realize saying that a person knows nothing about science leaves you open to the accusation that you are quite bereft of scientific knowledge?

Do you not realize that accusing a person of being a member of a cult because they disagree with you shows the shallowness of your arguments?

Do you not realize that because someone disagrees with you over one point does not justify the accusation of denying the true gospel?

Do you not realize in accusing the writer of lies, you yourself can be accused of the same thing?

Do you not realize that you have yet to develop the capacity to make rational arguments in an acceptable way?
No, I don't realise any of that, but with all due respect (which is none) I could turn everything you've said around back to you. You don't get to make the rules about what I can say or how I say it, you're as dumb as an ox and just because something isn't acceptable to you doesn't mean I have to abide by what you say. You can earn some points by letting me know how you learned about evolution or any scientific discipline from Greek texts and what books and authors you have consulted instead of just claiming you're well read and learned it should be a simple matter to prove it. The fact that you think a dog moulting is something to do with evolution betrays your lack of knowledge on the subject.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Evolution is objectively true...
Quite the opposite. There is absolutely no evidence for evolution, since no one has actually found intermediate forms. So evolution is just another atheistic religion.
"The fact is that evolutionists believe in evolution because they want to. It is their desire at all costs to explain the origin of everything without a Creator. Evolutionism is thus intrinsically an atheistic religion." -- Henry Morris.