Eternal security? or loss of salvation? what does the bible really say on these two subjects!

[eternally-gratefull]

Then why does God tell us to fear Him?

re.

the same god tells us he did not give us a spirit of fear but of sound mind

so,you tell me, does he contradict himself. Or are there differing types of fear

 

[Grandpa]

you obviously have NOT read my study! there are 38 new testament passages that clearly state that a true believer can lose their salvation! And i also address the scriptures that are used by you and others to maintain a false doctrine. click on the attachment and read the Holy Spirits study in this! all is explained there!

David

I just destroyed it with only 2 verses of scripture.

You'll have to do much better if you think you can convince Christians that they can lose their Salvation.

 

[cv5]

No, our responsibility is to rely on the one who keeps us.
And no where in scripture does it say that relying on Christ in faith is a work of the works gospel that can not justify.
In fact, Paul makes it quite clear that relying on Christ in faith is the exact way that you are justified and is diametrically opposed to justification through works of the law.

I think you might have the cart in front of the horse.
We are justified by grace and grace alone, being foreordained to salvation. It is also true that faithfulness brings reward at the bema seat of Christ. The believing and the faith are also of grace of course. I also believe we are participants in some fashion, but to strictly quantify this is a near to impossible, even from the scripture. This is our personal walk, our personal pilgrimage, our individual commission.

Romans 3:24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the ...
Titus 3:7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might ...

 

[cv5]

1 Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and ...
Ephesians 2:8-9
Acts 15:11
Acts 18:27
Romans 3:24
Romans 11:5
1 Corinthians 3:10
Galatians 1:6
Galatians 1:15
Ephesians 2:5
Ephesians 4:7
2 Thessalonians 2:16
2 Timothy 1:9
Titus 2:11
Titus 3:7

 

[Diakonos]

the same god tells us he did not give us a spirit of fear but of sound mind

so,you tell me, does he contradict himself. Or are there differing types of fear

Neither. You are confusing "fear" with "being afraid".
"fearing God" and "being afraid of God" are different.
The former causes us to revere His awesome majesty.
The latter causes us to hide from Him with the thought that He might harm us.

 

[Guojing]

View attachment 216391
Did you even read the references I gave? There are 3 tenses of salvation. When you track these subjects through the Bible, Its clearly referring to our threefold nature of spirit, soul and body.



You're right, It doesn't "say" this, just like it doesn't say "Trinity". But Scripture does teach the principle of a multi-faceted sanctification. There are 2 sanctifying works, and 1 sanctifying process. The moment of being born again entails a sanctifying work

Then why does God tell us to fear Him?

I read your document and I see a lot of commentary using the word "salvation". But none of the verses about falling away use the word "salvation". You have to demonstrate why you think those verses are referring to salvation, instead of just stating that they are.

There are verses that imply that believing in Jesus is sufficient to be saved.

There are also verses that imply that believing in Jesus is not sufficient to be saved.

That is how denominations exist.

 

[Judges1318]

There are verses that imply that believing in Jesus is sufficient to be saved.

There are also verses that imply that believing in Jesus is not sufficient to be saved.

That is how denominations exist.

And your denomination was formed out of a profound misunderstanding of James 2:24.
Error is what creates division.

Whoever created your religion would not have gone down that rabbit hole if he'd understood the various definitions of 'justified'.

 

[Guojing]

And your denomination was formed out of a profound misunderstanding of James 2:24.
Error is what creates division.

Whoever created your religion would not have gone down that rabbit hole if he'd understood the various definitions of 'justified'.

And yours is accurate because....it is yours?

 

[cv5]

And yours is accurate because....it is yours?

The precident has never changed: Grace, then Faith, then fruit/works.

 

[Guojing]

The precident has never changed: Grace, then Faith, then fruit/works.

But we are in the But now period, where it is faith only, apart from works, for salvation.

 

[tantalon]

Paul gives an example of the Christian life as being in a race: 1 Cor. 9: 24-27. In other words to "register" for the race and to be a participant, takes place at conversion. Now, we are excepted for the race, and stand on the START LINE. Not the FINISH LINE. This is where the confusions come in. To stand at the START line and remain there is what James is saying in James 2: 24, and I quote: verse 24, "you see then HOW that by works a man is justified, and not by faith Only". Or the last verse 26: "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith , WITHOUT WORKS, is dead also". The works are the obedience to right living found in the word. The Bible warns that hypocrites liars, fornicators, etc. DO NOT inherit the Kingdom of God.

 

[garee]

Hi. this debate has raged on for centuries. i did a very therough bible study on this topic. it is very lengthy, but i deal with both topics and rightly divide the word on them. If you have your mind made up as to what you want to believe: then this study is not for you! because no matter how much evidence is presented to the contrary of what yo want to believe: you will not accept it or believe it! But if you have an open mind and only what to know what the truth is on these two topics: then this study is for you!
I start with the negative then the positive later on. please do not post any replies to this, or ask any questions concerning it, until you have read all of it! for i answer all questions and objections in this study! if after reading you have unanswered questions: (which is unlikely) please feel free to ask them. i will answer them. but please do not ask questions that have already been answered in this study.
So for the intellectually honest, and only the intellectually honest people i have attached my study for their reading pleasure.

Hebrew 6 is a excellent place to start . We must begin with verse 1. Once we understand that, then we can understand what comes after.

(1)What are dead works ?

(2) What is faith towards God?

(3) Is faith towards God considered dead works?

(4) If so why?

Hebrews 6 King James Version (KJV) Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

 

[cv5]

But we are in the But now period, where it is faith only, apart from works, for salvation.

Let's settle on the term "fruit-bearing".

 

[Judges1318]

And yours is accurate because....it is yours?

...because it understands the various definitions and usages of the word 'justified'.

 

[Diakonos]

There are verses that imply

Are you saying that the author's intended this meaning or that it seems that they did?

When you say "there are verses that imply"....do you mean that the authors intentionally implied these things?

 

[walknlight]

2 Timothy 1:7

For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

G 1167 Thayer's Greek Lexicon:
deilia
1) timidity, fearfulness, cowardice
Part of Speech: noun feminine
Relation: from G1169

2 Corinthians 7:1
[1] Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

G5401 φόβος phobos (fo'-ɓos) n.
alarm or fright.
[from a primary phebomai “to be put in fear”]
KJV: be afraid, + exceedingly, fear, terror

Romans 8:15

For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

G5401 φόβος phobos (fo'-ɓos) n.
alarm or fright.
[from a primary phebomai “to be put in fear”]
KJV: be afraid, + exceedingly, fear, terror

2. Your right, With OSAS their is no fear. And thats the way God intended it.

"...we cry out, “Abba, Father.”
God Bless!

 

[walknlight]

1. You keep missing the point.

Just for clarity to your point....

Ps 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

H3374 יִראָה yir'ah (yir-aw') n-f.
1. fear (also used as infinitive).
2. (morally) reverence.
[feminine of H3373]
KJV: X dreadful, X exceedingly, fear(-fulness).

Ps 112:1 Praise ye the LORD. Blessed is the man that feareth the LORD, that delighteth greatly in his commandments.
H3372 יָרֵא yare' (yaw-ray') v.
1. to fear.
2. (morally) to revere.
3. (causative) to frighten.
[a primitive root]
KJV: affright, be (make) afraid, dread(-ful), (put in) fear(-ful, -fully, -ing), (be had in) reverence(-end), X see, terrible (act, -ness, thing).

Isa 41:10 Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.

AMEN!!!!

H3372 יָרֵא yare' (yaw-ray') v.
1. to fear.
2. (morally) to revere.
3. (causative) to frighten.
[a primitive root]
KJV: affright, be (make) afraid, dread(-ful), (put in) fear(-ful, -fully, -ing), (be had in) reverence(-end), X see, terrible (act, -ness, thing).

God Bless!!!

 

[Guojing]

Are you saying that the author's intended this meaning or that it seems that they did?

When you say "there are verses that imply"....do you mean that the authors intentionally implied these things?

I am saying that none of us read the Bible in a vacuum. We read it based on our pre-conceived knowledge we picked up, either in church or from other people.

Thus, the way we interpret scripture and decide which is relevant and which is not, will not always be the same as the way another interprets.

 

[Guojing]

Let's settle on the term "fruit-bearing".

But in the OT, if a Jew declined circumcision, he will be cut off from God's covenant with Israel (Genesis 17:14)

They don't have the benefit of us being justified apart from works of any kind.

 

[cv5]

But in the OT, if a Jew declined circumcision, he will be cut off from God's covenant with Israel (Genesis 17:14)

They don't have the benefit of us being justified apart from works of any kind.

I wouldn't call circumcision a work. It certainly isn't a work for the eight day old child.