Absolutely. Of course James means what he says and says what he means. But we need to be very very cautious about getting off track about works. All of a sudden the NUTTERS get control and presto 10% tithes, pillaging widows, Saturday Sabbath keeping and demanding log books of all the hours that you went preaching this week.
Eternal security? or loss of salvation? what does the bible really say on these two subjects!
- Thread starter Elderdave
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No, you had to believe what God said first, before your works for him will be acceptable. That was the sequence in the OT, as Hebrews 11 gave a number of examples.
But now, God commands us to rest from all works and trust in Jesus's death burial and resurrection for our salvation. So if you do works for salvation, you are not showing faith in God.
The OT saints described in Hebrews 11 did not have that option. Without works, their faith was dead. Noah for example had to build an ark to show his faith to God.
That does not apply to us in the "But now" time period. But it will apply again during the Tribulation, you need to show your faith by not taking the mark of the beast, with the possibility of being beheaded or starve to death for what you believed in.
But now, God commands us to rest from all works and trust in Jesus's death burial and resurrection for our salvation. So if you do works for salvation, you are not showing faith in God.
The OT saints described in Hebrews 11 did not have that option. Without works, their faith was dead. Noah for example had to build an ark to show his faith to God.
That does not apply to us in the "But now" time period. But it will apply again during the Tribulation, you need to show your faith by not taking the mark of the beast, with the possibility of being beheaded or starve to death for what you believed in.
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Noah may well have been the beneficiary of all kinds of information that is not recorded in Scripture. Noah walked with God Genesis 6:9, which would indicate intimate communion, and certainly privileged information and probably a lot of it, and I do not see why it wouldn't include the revelation of a Savior. There is every reason to believe that Adam was told of the Savior as well. Genesis does not include every single word spoken to Noah. To presume that is absurd. I would hazard to guess that God spoke to Noah as much as he did to Moses! Maybe more. I mean he lived a lot longer didn't he?
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What you are believing here, even though its not stated in Scripture, is actually the basic teaching of covenant theology, that everyone after Adam was under the covenant of Jesus's finished work at the cross.
Somehow God has informed all of Adam's descendants and those who were saved all understood it, and they put their faith in Jesus.
As I have said, there is a good reason why this teaching is very popular among many Christians.
Somehow God has informed all of Adam's descendants and those who were saved all understood it, and they put their faith in Jesus.
As I have said, there is a good reason why this teaching is very popular among many Christians.
That's not my point, but I do agree with it. The discourse with Noah that God recorded in the Scripture is all we are given and evidently all we need to know. And we certainly can't presume to add anything else because there isn't anything else that we know of. On the other hand there is undoubtedly a huge volume of discourse not recorded.
Scriptures prove scriptures. If they all do not harmonize one with the other it means that we have not interpreted them correctly.
The "kingdom of heaven" referenced in Matt 18:23, has reference to Christ's kingdom, which is his church. Jesus is teaching Peter the principles of discipling the church. Christ died as a sacrifice for all of the sins of those that his Father gave him, and said that he would not lose any of them. John 10:28, And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. We will not lose the gift of eternal salvation that was given to us.
The "kingdom of heaven" referenced in Matt 18:23, has reference to Christ's kingdom, which is his church. Jesus is teaching Peter the principles of discipling the church. Christ died as a sacrifice for all of the sins of those that his Father gave him, and said that he would not lose any of them. John 10:28, And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. We will not lose the gift of eternal salvation that was given to us.
Oh......I'm inclined to believe that indeed very much was preached about the coming kingdom.
Let me ask you this: Were these few sentences all that Enoch ever preached in his entire lifetime?
(Jude 14-15) It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones, to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”
Obviously not. And we can safely assume that Noah, another of God's preachers pre-flood, also had a message of broad scope and voluminous quantity, though we know nothing of it except what has been codified in Scripture.
Let me ask you this: Were these few sentences all that Enoch ever preached in his entire lifetime?
(Jude 14-15) It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones, to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”
Obviously not. And we can safely assume that Noah, another of God's preachers pre-flood, also had a message of broad scope and voluminous quantity, though we know nothing of it except what has been codified in Scripture.