THE RAPTURE

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God4me said:
The "Falling away" in 2 Thess, in the Greek, means
"A withdrawing, God's people being taken to heaven.
Then and then only can the antichrist come.
Click to expand...

2 THES. 2 [1]Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and BY OUR GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM, [2] That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, and that MAN OF SIN BE REVEALED, THE SON OF PERDITION; [4] WHO OPPOSETH AND EXALTETH HIMSELF ABOVE ALL THAT IS CALLED GOD, OR THAT IS WORSHIPPED; SO THAT HE AS GOD SITTETH IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, SHEWING HIMSELF THAT HE IS GOD. [5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

2THES.2 {a falling away} {bad guy exalts himself above all that is called God}
DANIEL 11 {many shall fall} {bad guy exalts himself above every God}

DANIEL 11 [32] And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. [33] And THEY THAT UNDERSTAND AMONG THE PEOPLE SHALL INSTRUCT MANY: YET THEY SHALL FALL by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. [34] Now WHEN THEY SHALL FALL, THEY SHALL BE HOLPEN WITH A LITTLE HELP: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. [35] And SOME OF THEM OF UNDERSTANDING SHALL FALL, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed. [36] And the king shall do according to his will; and HE SHALL EXALT HIMSELF, AND MAGNIFY HIMSELF ABOVE EVERY GOD, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

verse 32, the word {covenant}={berit}. Same Hebrew word used pertaining to the covenant of the 10 commandments

So you see the falling away { 2Thes.2} in Daniel. In Daniel do you see ANYTHING that depicts a rapture? Nope! Anyone taken to heaven GFM? Nope. We know these scriptures are speaking of the same event as bad guy exalts himself above all Gods in both scriptures and this will happen only once. As you can plainly see its a falling away from the truth. It is not a rapture.

HOSEA 4 [3] Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away. [4] Yet let no man strive, nor reprove another: for thy people are as they that strive with the priest. [5] Therefore shalt thou FALL IN THE DAY, and the prophet also shall FALL WITH THEE IN THE NIGHT, and I will destroy thy mother. [6] My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: SEEING THOU HAST FORGOTTEN THE LAW OF THY GOD, I WILL ALSO FORGET THY CHILDREN.

Hosea 4 points out why they are falling way. They have forgotten Gods law. Thats already happened by most all denominations
 
Wall said:
2 THES. 2 [1]Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and BY OUR GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM, [2] That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, and that MAN OF SIN BE REVEALED, THE SON OF PERDITION; [4] WHO OPPOSETH AND EXALTETH HIMSELF ABOVE ALL THAT IS CALLED GOD, OR THAT IS WORSHIPPED; SO THAT HE AS GOD SITTETH IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, SHEWING HIMSELF THAT HE IS GOD. [5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

2THES.2 {a falling away} {bad guy exalts himself above all that is called God}
DANIEL 11 {many shall fall} {bad guy exalts himself above every God}

DANIEL 11 [32] And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. [33] And THEY THAT UNDERSTAND AMONG THE PEOPLE SHALL INSTRUCT MANY: YET THEY SHALL FALL by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. [34] Now WHEN THEY SHALL FALL, THEY SHALL BE HOLPEN WITH A LITTLE HELP: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. [35] And SOME OF THEM OF UNDERSTANDING SHALL FALL, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed. [36] And the king shall do according to his will; and HE SHALL EXALT HIMSELF, AND MAGNIFY HIMSELF ABOVE EVERY GOD, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

verse 32, the word {covenant}={berit}. Same Hebrew word used pertaining to the covenant of the 10 commandments

So you see the falling away { 2Thes.2} in Daniel. In Daniel do you see ANYTHING that depicts a rapture? Nope! Anyone taken to heaven GFM? Nope. We know these scriptures are speaking of the same event as bad guy exalts himself above all Gods in both scriptures and this will happen only once. As you can plainly see its a falling away from the truth. It is not a rapture.

HOSEA 4 [3] Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away. [4] Yet let no man strive, nor reprove another: for thy people are as they that strive with the priest. [5] Therefore shalt thou FALL IN THE DAY, and the prophet also shall FALL WITH THEE IN THE NIGHT, and I will destroy thy mother. [6] My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: SEEING THOU HAST FORGOTTEN THE LAW OF THY GOD, I WILL ALSO FORGET THY CHILDREN.

Hosea 4 points out why they are falling way. They have forgotten Gods law. Thats already happened by most all denominations
Click to expand...




I have shown you what the Greek meaning for 2 Thess 2 means.
But you are entitled to your opinions.
 
Not my opinions. I didnt write the bible. I just study what the Word says. Do you really believe the real bad guy is gonna exalt himself above God twice? That seems to be the standard answer for you Rapturist
 
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Wheres the "BRIDE" going to after they are changed in the twinkling of an eye

MATTHEW 24 [36] But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. [37] But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, [39] And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [40] Then SHALL TWO BE IN THE FIELD; the ONE SHALL BE TAKEN, AND THE OTHER LEFT. [41] Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the ONE SHALL BE TAKEN, and THE OTHER LEFT.

So where shall they be taken to? The rapturist say they will be taken to heaven.

ISAIAH 27 [12] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and YE SHALL BE GATHERED ONE BY ONE, O ye children of Israel. [13] And it shall come to pass in that day, that THE GREAT TRUMPET SHALL BE BLOWN, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, AND SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD IN THE HOLY MOUNT AT JERUSALEM.

Seems were goin to Jerusalem. To the kingdom. But whose going to the kingdom? Who is the bride of Christ?

JEREMIAH 3 [12] Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou BACKSLIDING ISRAEL, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever. [13] Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the Lord thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the Lord. [14] Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord; for I AM MARRIED UNTO YOU: and I WILL TAKE YOU ONE OF A CITY, AND TWO OF A FAMILY, AND I WILL BRING YOU TO ZION: [15] And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding. [16] And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the Lord, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the Lord: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more. [17] AT THAT TIME THEY SHALL CALL JERUSALEM THE THRONE OF THE LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.

I am married unto you! Its the children of Israel. The bride. Please dont say theres 2 brides of Christ. Please! The WORD of God says the bride will be taken to Zion. To Jerusalem, for the kingdom rest. Not heaven
 
Wall said:
Not my opinions. I didnt write the bible. I just study what the Word says. Do you really believe the real bad guy is gonna exalt himself above God twice? That seems to be the standard answer for you Rapturist
Click to expand...



You wrongly interpret the scriptures and the Greek, But as I said, You are entitled to your own opinions.

Your the one who thinks the devil gets the victory over Christians, I'm the one who says God will deliver us through the pre-trin rapture.
 
God4me said:
The five foolish virgins were Christiana but they were backslIden and missed the rapture.

The antichrist doesn't kill billions of
Christians, (The Church ), we aren't here during the tribulations period, the Jews and the back sliders are among those who are killed.
Click to expand...
He beheads christians.

He kills saints.

That is what the bible declares.
 
God4me said:
You wrongly interpret the scriptures and the Greek, But as I said, You are entitled to your own opinions.

Your the one who thinks the devil gets the victory over Christians, I'm the one who says God will deliver us through the pre-trin rapture.
Click to expand...

No
The AC is empowered to kill christians.
It says he overcomes them.

Why do you think the martyrs are told that their number,in a little while,will be fulfilled?
 
Wall said:
Not my opinions. I didnt write the bible. I just study what the Word says. Do you really believe the real bad guy is gonna exalt himself above God twice? That seems to be the standard answer for you Rapturist
Click to expand...

You do?

All of it?

Even the pretrib rapture,and escape verses?
 
Wall said:
Wheres the "BRIDE" going to after they are changed in the twinkling of an eye

MATTHEW 24 [36] But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. [37] But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, [39] And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [40] Then SHALL TWO BE IN THE FIELD; the ONE SHALL BE TAKEN, AND THE OTHER LEFT. [41] Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the ONE SHALL BE TAKEN, and THE OTHER LEFT.

So where shall they be taken to? The rapturist say they will be taken to heaven.

ISAIAH 27 [12] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and YE SHALL BE GATHERED ONE BY ONE, O ye children of Israel. [13] And it shall come to pass in that day, that THE GREAT TRUMPET SHALL BE BLOWN, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, AND SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD IN THE HOLY MOUNT AT JERUSALEM.

Seems were goin to Jerusalem. To the kingdom. But whose going to the kingdom? Who is the bride of Christ?

JEREMIAH 3 [12] Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou BACKSLIDING ISRAEL, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever. [13] Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the Lord thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the Lord. [14] Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord; for I AM MARRIED UNTO YOU: and I WILL TAKE YOU ONE OF A CITY, AND TWO OF A FAMILY, AND I WILL BRING YOU TO ZION: [15] And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding. [16] And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the Lord, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the Lord: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more. [17] AT THAT TIME THEY SHALL CALL JERUSALEM THE THRONE OF THE LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.

I am married unto you! Its the children of Israel. The bride. Please dont say theres 2 brides of Christ. Please! The WORD of God says the bride will be taken to Zion. To Jerusalem, for the kingdom rest. Not heaven
Click to expand...


Matt 24: 36--41 prove you wrong, So I can't understand why you gave it.
[1]As it was in the days of Noah, First the warning, [The preaching of the gospel].
then the moving of God's people.
Then the wrath.

[2]The One taken, is the pre-trib rapture, the one left behind, is the sinners and the backsliders.
Please note, When Jesus comes back to reign, NO One is taken, so it has to be the pre-trib rapture.
 
popeye said:
No
The AC is empowered to kill christians.
It says he overcomes them.

Why do you think the martyrs are told that their number,in a little while,will be fulfilled?
Click to expand...



Not according to the Bible, Jesus has promised that those who are ready, will escape the coming tribulation.
He sais it personally, and through Paul.
The Jews, backsliders and those who get saved during the tribulation period, will be killed.
 
God4me said:
I have shown you what falling away means.
Please note, it doesn't say falling away from " THE FAITH" does it? No.
Vs 6--7, shows us that we have to go before the antichrist can come.

If Paul said don't be deceived, why have you? ?



The Church won't be deceived, as we won't be here at that time.
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Correct.

it does translate "depart"

Could be from the faith.

could be from this earth.

probably from the faith,but it really works for pretrib rapture either way.

They have no case at all with the departure concept.
 
God4me said:
Not according to the Bible, Jesus has promised that those who are ready, will escape the coming tribulation.
He sais it personally, and through Paul.
The Jews, backsliders and those who get saved during the tribulation period, will be killed.
Click to expand...

the 5 foolish are left behind.

Jesus said ".....but pray that you will be WORTHY to escape the things about to come upon the earth."

Worthy. ....as in 5 wise ....vs 5 foolish (unworthy)
Yet another point to the case I have shown you.
 
Wall said:
1Cor.15? What is that actually talking about. I believe it will be the time of the gathering of Gods people. We will meet Christ in the air and then its off to Jerusalem to the kingdom rest. What do you believe and why?
Click to expand...

Hi Wall. I had never hears of the 'rapture' until I came into contact with church (small c intended). The second coming is something I can relate to. Jesus is coming back, of that there is no doubt. When He does, "every eye shall see him".

If there is to be a rapture I am not sure how it will happen. I know Jesus will find it hard to find faith on the earth, I know the dead in Christ will be raised, I understand that there is an order for resurrection, as in the sea will give up its dead first. As for the wedding feast and what happens elswise I am not concerned. I have faith I will be with my Lord weather I understand everything or not.

That is my focus now, Jesus. The future is His and God will perform all that is needed to accomplish His purpose for Jesus to take the kingdom and give to God the Glory. I will just be happy to be there. I am looking forward to planting trees and vines and eating their fruit and watching the earth grow old with my God.
 
Wall said:
Not my opinions. I didnt write the bible. I just study what the Word says. Do you really believe the real bad guy is gonna exalt himself above God twice? That seems to be the standard answer for you Rapturist
Click to expand...




 Originally Posted by Wall
1Cor.15? What is that actually talking about. I believe it will be the time of the gathering of Gods people. We will meet Christ in the air and then its off to Jerusalem to the kingdom rest. What do you believe and why?
Click to expand...


Are we getting a little confused?
 
God4me said:
I have shown you what falling away means.
Please note, it doesn't say falling away from " THE FAITH" does it? No.
Vs 6--7, shows us that we have to go before the antichrist can come.

If Paul said don't be deceived, why have you? ?

The Church won't be deceived, as we won't be here at that time.
Click to expand...
Does it say, "falling away to heaven????"

Just who do you think gets deceived? The warning is for believers. The warning is specifically about the timing or sequence of the Day Christ returns.

THAT DAY, THE DAY CHRIST RETURNS, WILL NOT HAPPEN UNTIL THE FALLING AWAY AND MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED.

That is our warning. So why do you believe Christ returns before the falling away and before the Man of Sin???? You are missing the entire warning. The warning is for you!!!! The truth is staring you right in the face and you can't see it.
 
bikerchaz said:
Hi Wall. I had never hears of the 'rapture' until I came into contact with church (small c intended). The second coming is something I can relate to. Jesus is coming back, of that there is no doubt. When He does, "every eye shall see him".

If there is to be a rapture I am not sure how it will happen. I know Jesus will find it hard to find faith on the earth, I know the dead in Christ will be raised, I understand that there is an order for resurrection, as in the sea will give up its dead first. As for the wedding feast and what happens elswise I am not concerned. I have faith I will be with my Lord weather I understand everything or not.

That is my focus now, Jesus. The future is His and God will perform all that is needed to accomplish His purpose for Jesus to take the kingdom and give to God the Glory. I will just be happy to be there. I am looking forward to planting trees and vines and eating their fruit and watching the earth grow old with my God.
Click to expand...

Yeah bikerchaz. The kingdom will be great. If i make it, Ill be planting some tomatos along with those trees.
 
Luke 18:8

I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?”

Now why would Jesus wonder this if He came a few years earlier and raptured all those with faith? He wouldn't. This is because He only comes back once and He stays.
 
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