Rapture! Tribulation!
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So I wonder when it comes to post trib or pans out in the end. Are we warning anyone? Well what about those that right now live a life where each day is a night mar to live for Christ where your even hunted daily. Is anyone crying out helping them to warn them. Telling them there is no hope for you as in Christ is not coming back for you there is no silly false teaching of pre caught up or pre-trib snare . Telling them the truth right... You have to endure a time which has never touched this earth. I can't see trying to sell them on some "its ok God will protect you".. We say these things sitting in nice room or the like with a computer or cell phone and maybe a TV a stove.. a bathroom.. or even (God for bid) suffering from some sickness the enemy is trying to harm us with. But were going to trust GOD in a time that has never touched this earth right?
If were going to share.. share it all not just what you personally believe as if that is the real truth and if you don't agree with me your wrong. Take the falling away. Was it not the KJV that introduced "Falling away" and before that was it not " "departure" or "departing, " And were not talking just one translation here. I don't care to debate any more.. but Paul uses a definite article with the noun apostasia Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.
Some of you know better.. the way you are treating His children.. its the same as saying it to Him face to face...oh but you wont. If someone asked me....if Christ does come now and I do not believe that will I go anyway? In all my life there has never been a time in which God has went against my will. I could not answer. I would say...if this moment was all you have.. if you were not promised tomorrow.... live for Him now.. expect Him now. There is no scripture for PRE only.. MID only nor POST only. You guys know this and yet you treat others badly .. as if silly even is ok. Some truly believe pre trib. Praise GOD they are watching for Him. And you say they will cause more to fall away? Its a snare. Might as will toss in 1830...forget it 300-400AD where they preached taught Christ coming before the great tribulation. That proves ...they just believed He would come before the great tribulation. Thats it.
For me watching ...oh always watching thinking about Him.. watching my life and how I live..and to share JESUS is the only way.. and He loves you. To be ready now.. now is all I have. Is there not a reward for those watching for Him? Does seem I lean to one way.... haha no one knows.
If were going to share.. share it all not just what you personally believe as if that is the real truth and if you don't agree with me your wrong. Take the falling away. Was it not the KJV that introduced "Falling away" and before that was it not " "departure" or "departing, " And were not talking just one translation here. I don't care to debate any more.. but Paul uses a definite article with the noun apostasia Paul is pointing to a particular type of departure clearly known to the Thessalonian church.
Some of you know better.. the way you are treating His children.. its the same as saying it to Him face to face...oh but you wont. If someone asked me....if Christ does come now and I do not believe that will I go anyway? In all my life there has never been a time in which God has went against my will. I could not answer. I would say...if this moment was all you have.. if you were not promised tomorrow.... live for Him now.. expect Him now. There is no scripture for PRE only.. MID only nor POST only. You guys know this and yet you treat others badly .. as if silly even is ok. Some truly believe pre trib. Praise GOD they are watching for Him. And you say they will cause more to fall away? Its a snare. Might as will toss in 1830...forget it 300-400AD where they preached taught Christ coming before the great tribulation. That proves ...they just believed He would come before the great tribulation. Thats it.
For me watching ...oh always watching thinking about Him.. watching my life and how I live..and to share JESUS is the only way.. and He loves you. To be ready now.. now is all I have. Is there not a reward for those watching for Him? Does seem I lean to one way.... haha no one knows.
It's like you're drunk!
But anyway, from your first paragraph, I'm wondering if you think Christians will be protected during the great tribulation and that we would tell that to people being persecuted right now?
The amswer is no. The Bible says most of us will die because of the antichrist. That's why people should learn to endure in Christ now so that no one will take the mark of the beast and worship the antichrist or fall away.
Post tribbers seem to think that pre tribbers are inferior because they want to dodge the tribulation. They also assume that pre tribbers won't be able to cope if we are wrong and have to endure it. Personally, I think anyone who wants to go through the tribulation is nuts. I find life now hard enough, although not as hard as when I was trying to do it all myself. I've discovered that Lord Jesus is much better at the Christian life than I am. I'm his problem now.
Whatever happens, Jesus is still Lord. He is who is for us is greater than he who is against us. We are already victorious. I believe that it is the real church that restrains the Antichrist. We are seeing a change in the world order, which is to be expected. America is declining as it turns away from Jesus. I never expected the decline to be so quick. It's amazing what destruction just one man can bring about.
It is always possible that the body of Christ in nation will wake up and get right with God. Christians in the UK are rising up against the Islamisation of their nation. Will it be enough? I don't know. Will the church in America get into the fight against the woke progressives with their communist agenda? Will Christians stand against Islam in America? That also is not clear. It's not looking good is all I can say. Australia is no better. Islam is a protected species here. Australia's government is antisemitic. God still blesses those who bless Israel. Since the antisemites took over here, this nation has gone to the dogs.
"Do not fear" and such appears at least 365 times - once for every day of the year!
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I have a friend who is a scholar of the greek language. He says it can mean a physical departure/, Here is his paper on the subject if interested.
REBELLION, FALLING AWAY, OR DEPARTURE
Open link
If bored with studies like this go to the conclusion. Chapter 6, Page 20
Some translations use the term "rebellion" to indicate clearly that this a moral departure, not physical. This was determined by translators that had the very serious duty to accurately convey what the original writers meant. So it's moral departure, not physical.
I would take their translation over someone writing a paper trying to convince people that it's physical.
I have looked at many resources and none support it meaning a physical departure. It only means a moral departure. The word is apostasia, from which the word Apostasy comes from. We all know what that means.
I'll let you in on the secret: No post-trib believer wants to go through the great tribulation.
But it's in the Bible. Jesus Himself is warning us. We have no other choice but to accept it and prepare for spiritual endurance just as Jesus has instructed us.
I know from talking to a few pre-tribbers that they have made room in their hearts for the possibility that they could be wrong and so are preparing themselves too for endurance in Christ when they go through the GT. VERY FEW.
But most are woefully unready since they really don't think they have to endure the terrible things to come to Christians then. They think terrible things are going to happen to the Jews but satan is going after ALL the people God cares for. So it's not just Jews but us Christians too
Jesus said it would be the worst time, never to be equaled. But if you want to get an idea about that, read about the different groups Hitler had exterminated - and then think of what happens in the GT being worse than that, just as Jesus warned.
It's not about who is inferior, but my goodness, pre-tribbers have really stuck their heads in the sand! They refuse to see it in the Bible no matter what is pointed out to them. So really the best thing is to sit back and let the great tribulation tell them what's what.
The Elect cannot be deceived. You may want to reread the verse to which you were referring.
You noticed that too huh?
I have an explanation, but it wouldn't go over very well.
Apostasia is only used twice in the New Testament: in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 and Acts 21:21. In Acts it's talking about "rebellion" against Moses. The clear meaning in 2 Thessalonians is a departure from the faith, or a rebellion against God.
The fact that pretribbers have latched on to this verse to try and prove the rapture must come before the tribulation smacks of desperation. If you think about it, it doesn't even make good sense. If you interpret the passage the way they say it should be, it would say: "The rapture can't come unless the rapture comes first."
The fact that pretribbers have latched on to this verse to try and prove the rapture must come before the tribulation smacks of desperation. If you think about it, it doesn't even make good sense. If you interpret the passage the way they say it should be, it would say: "The rapture can't come unless the rapture comes first."
Plus changing apostasia into the rapture is a clear explanation of how the apostasia can even happen.
Definitely not Imminent!!
From the Apostle Barnabas
Barnabas 15:3
Of the Sabbath He speaketh in the beginning of the creation; And
God made the works of His hands in six days, and He ended on the
seventh day, and rested on it, and He hallowed it.
Barnabas 15:4
Give heed, children, what this meaneth; He ended in six days. He
meaneth this, that in six thousand years the Lord shall bring all
things to an end; for the day with Him signifyeth a thousand years;
and this He himself beareth me witness, saying; Behold, the day of
the Lord shall be as a thousand years. Therefore, children, in six
days, that is in six thousand years, everything shall come to an end.
From the Apostle Barnabas
Barnabas 15:3
Of the Sabbath He speaketh in the beginning of the creation; And
God made the works of His hands in six days, and He ended on the
seventh day, and rested on it, and He hallowed it.
Barnabas 15:4
Give heed, children, what this meaneth; He ended in six days. He
meaneth this, that in six thousand years the Lord shall bring all
things to an end; for the day with Him signifyeth a thousand years;
and this He himself beareth me witness, saying; Behold, the day of
the Lord shall be as a thousand years. Therefore, children, in six
days, that is in six thousand years, everything shall come to an end.
Millions of believers think differently. Some, including at least one Messianic Jewish preacher, think that the GT is for Jews in Israel. Everyone has the same Bible. Tell me how you get ready for unimaginable horrors? Do you look at holocaust pictures and imagine yourself being tortured? Do you read all the plagues and destruction coming on the earth according to the book of Revelation? What is your strategy?I'll let you in on the secret: No post-trib believer wants to go through the great tribulation.
But it's in the Bible. Jesus Himself is warning us. We have no other choice but to accept it and prepare for spiritual endurance just as Jesus has instructed us.
I know from talking to a few pre-tribbers that they have made room in their hearts for the possibility that they could be wrong and so are preparing themselves too for endurance in Christ when they go through the GT. VERY FEW.
But most are woefully unready since they really don't think they have to endure the terrible things to come to Christians then. They think terrible things are going to happen to the Jews but satan is going after ALL the people God cares for. So it's not just Jews but us Christians too
Jesus said it would be the worst time, never to be equaled. But if you want to get an idea about that, read about the different groups Hitler had exterminated - and then think of what happens in the GT being worse than that, just as Jesus warned.
It's not about who is inferior, but my goodness, pre-tribbers have really stuck their heads in the sand! They refuse to see it in the Bible no matter what is pointed out to them. So really the best thing is to sit back and let the great tribulation tell them what's what.
My motivation is a little different. I believe that Jesus could take me home any day. I'm past my best before date anyway. Every day is a bonus. My desire is to fulfill the calling that God has on my life. I believe that we are seeing the time Jesus said that we should lift up our heads because our redemption is drawing near. That redemption is the transformation of the physical body to the spiritual body and being taken from this earth until Jesus returns to stand on the Mount of Olives. Am I right? I will find out sooner or later.
Personally, I believe that real believers will be taken up prior to the Great Tribulation. Those who are pretenders will be left behind. They will have an opportunity to get real with God even at the cost of their lives. How much better to be real now.
OT patterns confirm the pre-trib rapture:I'll let you in on the secret: No post-trib believer wants to go through the great tribulation.
But it's in the Bible. Jesus Himself is warning us. We have no other choice but to accept it and prepare for spiritual endurance just as Jesus has instructed us.
I know from talking to a few pre-tribbers that they have made room in their hearts for the possibility that they could be wrong and so are preparing themselves too for endurance in Christ when they go through the GT. VERY FEW.
But most are woefully unready since they really don't think they have to endure the terrible things to come to Christians then. They think terrible things are going to happen to the Jews but satan is going after ALL the people God cares for. So it's not just Jews but us Christians too
Jesus said it would be the worst time, never to be equaled. But if you want to get an idea about that, read about the different groups Hitler had exterminated - and then think of what happens in the GT being worse than that, just as Jesus warned.
It's not about who is inferior, but my goodness, pre-tribbers have really stuck their heads in the sand! They refuse to see it in the Bible no matter what is pointed out to them. So really the best thing is to sit back and let the great tribulation tell them what's what.
-The Passover pattern
-The Jewish marriage protocol pattern
What needs to be understood is that God embeds prophetic patterns (“types”) in the Old Testament long before He reveals the doctrine plainly in the New Testament (1 Cor 10:11).
God removes or shelters the righteous before He pours out global or regional judgment.
Below are the major OT rapture-types that form a unified prophetic pattern.
1) Enoch — Removed before judgment
Genesis 5:24
“And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”
Enoch was:
• Righteous
• Walking with God
• Removed before the Flood (the greatest judgment in history)
This is the purest rapture type in the Bible.
Noah (Israel) goes through the Flood
Enoch (the Church) is taken out beforehand
This is not accidental — Hebrews 11:5 explicitly says Enoch was translated (Greek: metatithēmi = moved from one place to another without dying).
2) Noah & the Ark — Israel protected, Church removed
The Flood is the OT type of the Tribulation.
Person What happened Prophetic role
Enoch Taken away Church raptured
Noah Preserved through wrath Israel protected
World Judged Tribulation
Jesus directly linked His Second Coming to the days of Noah (Matthew 24:37).
The structure is identical to Revelation.
3) Lot — Removed before fire fell
Genesis 19:22
“Haste thee… for I cannot do anything till thou be come thither.”
God literally says:
“I cannot judge Sodom until Lot is gone.”
This is massive.
Lot is not a great saint — yet he is righteous (2 Peter 2:7-8).
God forcibly removes him before judgment falls.
Jesus explicitly ties Lot to end-time judgment in Luke 17:28-30.
4) Isaac — The bride never goes into the wilderness
In Genesis 24:
• Isaac (the son) stays home
• A servant (Holy Spirit) goes to get a bride
• Rebekah is taken to Isaac
• She never enters the wilderness
Israel goes through the wilderness
The Bride does not
This is the clearest picture of the Church being taken to Christ before Jacob’s trouble begins.
5) Joseph — The Gentile bride before the famine
Joseph is rejected by his brothers (Israel), then:
• Exalted to Gentile ruler
• Takes a Gentile bride
• Then the 7-year famine begins
• Then he is revealed to Israel
This is textbook:
Christ → Church → Tribulation → Israel restored
6) Ruth — The Church gathered before judgment
You already noted this one, but here’s the prophetic key:
• Ruth (Gentile bride) is married to Boaz
• Before Naomi (Israel) is restored
• Before famine ends
• Before the kingdom blessing comes
Ruth is not present during Israel’s time of national chastening — she is already in union with the Redeemer.
7) Elijah — Taken before Israel enters tribulation
Elijah is:
• Taken up
• Then Elisha ministers to Israel during a time of judgment and apostasy
Elijah = Church
Elisha = Israel’s prophetic witness during tribulation
Malachi 4 ties Elijah to the end times.
8) Rahab — Taken out before Jericho falls
Rahab (a Gentile believer) is:
• Sealed
• Removed
• Then judgment falls on the city
Again: rescued before destruction.
9) Daniel removed before the furnace
Daniel (a type of the Church) is absent from Daniel 3.
The three Hebrew men (Israel) go into the fire
Daniel (Church) is nowhere to be found
Exactly like Revelation: the Church is gone, Israel is refined.
10) The consistent rule
Throughout the OT:
God never pours out covenantal wrath on His redeemed people.
That is why:
• Enoch left
• Lot left
• Rahab left
• Ruth married
• Joseph’s bride secured
• Isaac’s bride sheltered
• Daniel absent
• Elijah taken
And then judgment comes.
Why this matters
The pre-tribulation rapture is not built on one verse — it is built on the entire architecture of Scripture.
It is how God has always worked.
“For God hath not appointed us to wrath…” (1 Thess 5:9)