Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

Written like a TRUE worker saving himself.

He is another joker.......peddles a faux dogma like Judges with a little different twist!!

 

[walknlight]

Hi!

Why are you acting like I didn't explain it to you?

Thanks, but I didn't not ask for an explanation, a point was made, then you made an attempt to explain it away.

I have read some of what you have said...
Makes me so glad God is not a man. No offense...

 

[Lightskin]

@RebuildJesussChurch

Why Red X on @Lightskin post... isn't that your dogma?

The Red x was given because he hates Truth.

 

[Phoneman-777]

there's nothing about having a firm anchor of the soul, a faith in the faithfulness of God and the sufficiency of His work, that despises an obligation to do what is right.

you accuse, but it's just you accusing until you yourself provide proof that someone is actually preaching 'sin all the more' since grace abounds. we have heard this spurious accusation over and over for over six thousand pages now.

I make no accusations, just observations. OSAS is the false covering for sin that Solomon says will not prosper, while Righteousness by Faith in Christ's power to deliver from temptation - and to forgive the just man who falls seven times while on his way to gaining victory and still more victory - now that's the kind of belief that inspires.

 

[Lightskin]

That was quite the diatribe the poster wrote.

All we do is honor God by placing our full, unequivocal, fever-pitched faith in Jesus Christ, and self-salvationists don’t like it. Interesting.

 

[Judges1318]

verse 26 is absolutely clear; the man when he pleaded/besought/begged/implored with the Master did not ask to have his debt forgiven. he begged for patience, saying he would pay it back.

"all that debt I did forgive thee, seeing thou didst call upon me" - Matthew 18:32 YLT

So the Master forgave the debt because the servant wanted time to pay it back?
What kind of logic is that?
Tell me how that even translates into the actual truths the parable represents?
Does this mean people who ask for more time to pay God back actually get the debt forgiven altogether instead?
What gospel is that?
If that was any part of the gospel message every works salvationist working to pay the debt owed to the Master would be saved, not condemned.

But the main thing is, you're missing the 800 pound gorilla in the room.
The free gift really was given and it really was taken back.
And Jesus said that's how it is in the kingdom of heaven and how the Father will treat each of us.
But osas is sure the Father never, ever takes back free gifts.

Osas has to say the servant wasn't 'really' forgiven in order to preserve it's doctrine that says God doesn't take back free gifts he has given. That's the only way they can explain the revoking of the free gift that was given in the story.
This passage soundly defies the popular osas teaching that God's gifts are irrevocable.
The premise upon which the osas argument is built on and depends on is wrong.
And as we all know, when the premise is wrong, so is that which is built on it and depends on it.

 

[Lightskin]

I make no accusations, just observations. OSAS is the false covering for sin that Solomon says will not prosper, while Righteousness by Faith in Christ's power to deliver from temptation - and to forgive the just man who falls seven times while on his way to gaining victory and still more victory - now that's the kind of belief that inspires.

Self Salvationist ^^^^

 

[walknlight]

All we do is honor God by placing our full, unequivocal, fever-pitched faith in Jesus Christ, and self-salvationists don’t like it. Interesting.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[Judges1318]

I have run out strong enough words to express my disgust at how they demean and devalue Jesus.

You devalue Jesus when you insist that you can say and do anything in unbelief after being saved and not be cast off as a result.
Hebrews calls that trampling on the blood of Christ.
THAT'S how you devalue Jesus.

 

[Phoneman-777]

you know Moses appeared at the transfiguration, and he was dead-in-the-flesh, and hadn't been resurrected, right?

Hmmm....Solomon and Job say the "dead know not anything", have "nothing to do with anything done under the sun", have no "memory", no "knowledge", no "wisdom", no emotions, no perception of the affairs of men, etc....You think that a "dead Moses" appeared to Jesus and comforted, counselled, etc.
Did you never read in Jude where Satan opposed God over the body of Moses? What were they arguing about - the type of worms that was to consume it, or the type of vegetation that would spring up from it? No...it should be obvious to anyone that Satan was disputing God's intention to RESURRECT his body. It is the ONLY way that Moses could appear to Jesus and not violate the clear testimony of Jesus, Solomon, Job, Peter, David, etc., about the total state of insensibility that is death. What was the first lie of Scripture that is repeated at just about every funeral and in almost every pulpit? "Thou shalt not SURELY die."

you know Jesus says He's the God of Abraham & Isaac & Jacob - and He's the God of the living, not the dead, right? these men's bodies are dust in tombs, not resurrected, but God calls them alive -

Surely, you know that God, being God, can speak of that which is not yet but is to be, as though it is at the present, right? We find this countless times in Scripture, from "Cyrus is my Shepherd and shall accomplish all My will" over ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY YEARS before the man was even born, as well as when speaking of a restored Israel, while it is yet in bondage. God is the God of the living, for dead Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will eventually come forth in the first resurrection.

 

[posthuman]

Jesus brought very few lost sheep of Israel and Prodigals home when he came to do that.
Osas has it that he always succeeds in doing that. (I mean the new osas. The old osas says real sheep and prodigals never leave to begin with).
I wish that were true, but it's just not.
His ministry to the lost sheep of Israel prove its not.

well, Jesus also has it that He doesn't lose any of those the Father gives Him. that there was only a remnant shows that His word is also true, that the Gate is narrow & few find it. not everyone who looks Christian, is - and i wouldn't doubt that some who don't look like believers, are. we shouldn't judge by appearance.

whatever you're calling 'new osas' i presume has a much looser definition of being saved?

i do not agree to call myself a proponent of 'osas' -- i believe in the security of all who belong to Christ, eternally, but IMO the term 'osas' implies something that is a facsimile of salvation, not salvation. salvation is literally a supernatural revealing and drawing and recreating of a person, spirit, soul and eventually body, that has a tangible, irrevocable and undeniable effect on a person. it is not something a person does it is something done to a person by God, who is faithful without question to finish what He begins. God Himself conforms a person to the image of the Son. He may do this at various rates of time, but He is apart from time and it is finished from the perspective of eternity; the Beginning is the End, Alpha & Omega.

 

[Phoneman-777]

To clarify this is the post you responded to



no mention of a plane

the pilot example was yours. Trying to say I never trusted the pilot because of something my wife did I killed myself,, in this example I was not trusting a pilot to save me, So your also being untruthful in this post

ps, you never answered me

kohn said we can KNOW we have eternal life, why did John lie

So, you agree that a man can place his implicit trust in the pilot of a plane he's just boarded, but later decide to jump to his death after an explicit text message at 15,000 ft. from his wife shows that she's got a PhD in extramarital sex, yes or no?

 

[Phoneman-777]

here you have falsly accused what is not true

osas does not in any shape or form believe this. You sir are in sin.

Any belief that says works are optional because my choice to opt out of them doesn't harm my salvation is of the devil, not Scripture.

 

[Phoneman-777]

The pattern does not help the investigative judgment heresy.

In fact no where in the pattern is there a checking and ticking off of those the sacrificial lambs sins that were covered. It covered the nation. Just as Christ's once for all covers the nation of Christians.

The I.j. is the product of E.G. White's Id, in an attempt to explain away the failed "prophecy" of the return of Jesus in 1844.

Monsters from the Id.

No where? So, the Jewish commentators are wrong when claiming that the "Day of Atonement is the day of Judgment"? To the contrary, it most certainly IS. The trumpets blew ten days before, the people afflicted themselves, confessing their sins and ensuring they were covered by the blood of the lamb, and on the Day of Atonement, the nation was judged, and those who were found guilty were cut off from the nation.

What is heretical is to DENY this being the case. The Feast Days have to do with Christ's first and second advent, the first four with His coming as a Lamb, and the last three as a Lion. Please put down the milk and get into the meat of prophecy, friend.

 

[Lightskin]

You devalue Jesus when you insist that you can say and do anything in unbelief after being saved and not be cast off as a result.
Hebrews calls that trampling on the blood of Christ.
THAT'S how you devalue Jesus.

Translation: where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more. God’s Word.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Any belief that says works are optional because my choice to opt out of them doesn't harm my salvation is of the devil, not Scripture.

The believe says we are saved by living faith

living faith works

your wrong and bearing false witness,

ie, your braking the law

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So, you agree that a man can place his implicit trust in the pilot of a plane he's just boarded, but later decide to jump to his death after an explicit text message at 15,000 ft. from his wife shows that she's got a PhD in extramarital sex, yes or no?

Nope
your argument does not fit, because the man is not placing his safety in the hands of the man

his wife’s letter has no bearing on the Ability of the pilot to get him from point a to point B

 

[Phoneman-777]

A branch that is on the ground cannot bear fruit. That is the simple point.

You add your own thoughts beyond what Jesus has stated.

It is not I who adds, but you who subtracts.
Even a blind man can see what Jesus is saying is that just as a branch separated from the Vine cannot survive, let alone bear fruit, and is good for nothing but the fire, so the consequence is the same for a saint who separates himself from God.

You seem to think the branch made of asbestos and has a PPO with an "accidental dismemberment" rider.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Wrong

What, he who has not the Son, still has life? I keep telling you there's no Spiritual Switzerland.

 

[14meatcc]

It is not I who adds, but you who subtracts.
Even a blind man can see what Jesus is saying is that just as a branch separated from the Vine cannot survive, let alone bear fruit, and is good for nothing but the fire, so the consequence is the same for a saint who separates himself from God.

You seem to think the branch made of asbestos and has a PPO with an "accidental dismemberment" rider.

Thank God I am kept by God and not I keep God.