Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I make no accusations, just observations. OSAS is the false covering for sin that Solomon says will not prosper, while Righteousness by Faith in Christ's power to deliver from temptation - and to forgive the just man who falls seven times while on his way to gaining victory and still more victory - now that's the kind of belief that inspires.
-
1
- Show all
"all that debt I did forgive thee, seeing thou didst call upon me" - Matthew 18:32 YLT
So the Master forgave the debt because the servant wanted time to pay it back?
What kind of logic is that?
Tell me how that even translates into the actual truths the parable represents?
Does this mean people who ask for more time to pay God back actually get the debt forgiven altogether instead?
What gospel is that?
If that was any part of the gospel message every works salvationist working to pay the debt owed to the Master would be saved, not condemned.
But the main thing is, you're missing the 800 pound gorilla in the room.
The free gift really was given and it really was taken back.
And Jesus said that's how it is in the kingdom of heaven and how the Father will treat each of us.
But osas is sure the Father never, ever takes back free gifts.
Osas has to say the servant wasn't 'really' forgiven in order to preserve it's doctrine that says God doesn't take back free gifts he has given. That's the only way they can explain the revoking of the free gift that was given in the story.
This passage soundly defies the popular osas teaching that God's gifts are irrevocable.
The premise upon which the osas argument is built on and depends on is wrong.
And as we all know, when the premise is wrong, so is that which is built on it and depends on it.
So the Master forgave the debt because the servant wanted time to pay it back?
What kind of logic is that?
Tell me how that even translates into the actual truths the parable represents?
Does this mean people who ask for more time to pay God back actually get the debt forgiven altogether instead?
What gospel is that?
If that was any part of the gospel message every works salvationist working to pay the debt owed to the Master would be saved, not condemned.
But the main thing is, you're missing the 800 pound gorilla in the room.
The free gift really was given and it really was taken back.
And Jesus said that's how it is in the kingdom of heaven and how the Father will treat each of us.
But osas is sure the Father never, ever takes back free gifts.
Osas has to say the servant wasn't 'really' forgiven in order to preserve it's doctrine that says God doesn't take back free gifts he has given. That's the only way they can explain the revoking of the free gift that was given in the story.
This passage soundly defies the popular osas teaching that God's gifts are irrevocable.
The premise upon which the osas argument is built on and depends on is wrong.
And as we all know, when the premise is wrong, so is that which is built on it and depends on it.
Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
Hmmm....Solomon and Job say the "dead know not anything", have "nothing to do with anything done under the sun", have no "memory", no "knowledge", no "wisdom", no emotions, no perception of the affairs of men, etc....You think that a "dead Moses" appeared to Jesus and comforted, counselled, etc.
Did you never read in Jude where Satan opposed God over the body of Moses? What were they arguing about - the type of worms that was to consume it, or the type of vegetation that would spring up from it? No...it should be obvious to anyone that Satan was disputing God's intention to RESURRECT his body. It is the ONLY way that Moses could appear to Jesus and not violate the clear testimony of Jesus, Solomon, Job, Peter, David, etc., about the total state of insensibility that is death. What was the first lie of Scripture that is repeated at just about every funeral and in almost every pulpit? "Thou shalt not SURELY die."
Surely, you know that God, being God, can speak of that which is not yet but is to be, as though it is at the present, right? We find this countless times in Scripture, from "Cyrus is my Shepherd and shall accomplish all My will" over ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY YEARS before the man was even born, as well as when speaking of a restored Israel, while it is yet in bondage. God is the God of the living, for dead Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will eventually come forth in the first resurrection.
Did you never read in Jude where Satan opposed God over the body of Moses? What were they arguing about - the type of worms that was to consume it, or the type of vegetation that would spring up from it? No...it should be obvious to anyone that Satan was disputing God's intention to RESURRECT his body. It is the ONLY way that Moses could appear to Jesus and not violate the clear testimony of Jesus, Solomon, Job, Peter, David, etc., about the total state of insensibility that is death. What was the first lie of Scripture that is repeated at just about every funeral and in almost every pulpit? "Thou shalt not SURELY die."
Surely, you know that God, being God, can speak of that which is not yet but is to be, as though it is at the present, right? We find this countless times in Scripture, from "Cyrus is my Shepherd and shall accomplish all My will" over ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY YEARS before the man was even born, as well as when speaking of a restored Israel, while it is yet in bondage. God is the God of the living, for dead Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will eventually come forth in the first resurrection.
well, Jesus also has it that He doesn't lose any of those the Father gives Him. that there was only a remnant shows that His word is also true, that the Gate is narrow & few find it. not everyone who looks Christian, is - and i wouldn't doubt that some who don't look like believers, are. we shouldn't judge by appearance.
whatever you're calling 'new osas' i presume has a much looser definition of being saved?
i do not agree to call myself a proponent of 'osas' -- i believe in the security of all who belong to Christ, eternally, but IMO the term 'osas' implies something that is a facsimile of salvation, not salvation. salvation is literally a supernatural revealing and drawing and recreating of a person, spirit, soul and eventually body, that has a tangible, irrevocable and undeniable effect on a person. it is not something a person does it is something done to a person by God, who is faithful without question to finish what He begins. God Himself conforms a person to the image of the Son. He may do this at various rates of time, but He is apart from time and it is finished from the perspective of eternity; the Beginning is the End, Alpha & Omega.
No where? So, the Jewish commentators are wrong when claiming that the "Day of Atonement is the day of Judgment"? To the contrary, it most certainly IS. The trumpets blew ten days before, the people afflicted themselves, confessing their sins and ensuring they were covered by the blood of the lamb, and on the Day of Atonement, the nation was judged, and those who were found guilty were cut off from the nation.
What is heretical is to DENY this being the case. The Feast Days have to do with Christ's first and second advent, the first four with His coming as a Lamb, and the last three as a Lion. Please put down the milk and get into the meat of prophecy, friend.
What is heretical is to DENY this being the case. The Feast Days have to do with Christ's first and second advent, the first four with His coming as a Lamb, and the last three as a Lion. Please put down the milk and get into the meat of prophecy, friend.
It is not I who adds, but you who subtracts.
Even a blind man can see what Jesus is saying is that just as a branch separated from the Vine cannot survive, let alone bear fruit, and is good for nothing but the fire, so the consequence is the same for a saint who separates himself from God.
You seem to think the branch made of asbestos and has a PPO with an "accidental dismemberment" rider.
Even a blind man can see what Jesus is saying is that just as a branch separated from the Vine cannot survive, let alone bear fruit, and is good for nothing but the fire, so the consequence is the same for a saint who separates himself from God.
You seem to think the branch made of asbestos and has a PPO with an "accidental dismemberment" rider.
