Not By Works

[Phoneman-777]

Having to keep/maintain salvation is contrary to it be defined as a gift.

You only keep/maintain that which can break down, like your car...making the choice not to drive it off a 2,000 foot cliff is just exercising good sense.

 

[posthuman]

There's nothing self righteous about Biblically defined Christian obligation that OSAS so despises

there's nothing about having a firm anchor of the soul, a faith in the faithfulness of God and the sufficiency of His work, that despises an obligation to do what is right.

you accuse, but it's just you accusing until you yourself provide proof that someone is actually preaching 'sin all the more' since grace abounds. we have heard this spurious accusation over and over for over six thousand pages now.

 

[posthuman]

You only keep/maintain that which can break down, like your car...making the choice not to drive it off a 2,000 foot cliff is just exercising good sense.

Salvation is a junky car i have to keep pouring money into?

_________________________________________

 

[Phoneman-777]

how about post the whole verse instead of selectively editing it to try to make it say something it doesn't say?

The Angel of The LORD gave this charge to Joshua: This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘If you will walk in obedience to Me and keep My requirements, then you will govern My house and have charge of My courts, and I will give you a place among these standing here.' ​

(Zechariah 3:6-7)​

​

this isn't an "if/then" regarding removing sin.
this is an "if/then" regarding Joshua the high priest being given charge over the temple and its courts.


what you have done here, @Phoneman-777, by deleting some of the Bible to try to present it as something it isn't, is a classic example of what's called "perverting scripture"
doing this is what's called, "bad fruit" -- and we know it.

Well, then, somebody forgot to inform the Jews that they didn't need to tie ropes to the feet of the High Priest before he entered the Most Holy Place because any unconfessed sin on his part was no big deal, right - even though those found clinging to sin in the end shall be "destroyed by the brightness of His coming"?

But, OSAS will stop at nothing to excuse sin in the sight of God, even at the level of the High Priest.

 

[posthuman]

Well, then, somebody forgot to inform the Jews that they didn't need to tie ropes to the feet of the High Priest before he entered the Most Holy Place because any unconfessed sin on his part was no big deal, right - even though those found clinging to sin in the end shall be "destroyed by the brightness of His coming"?

what in the world do you think that has to do with the fact that you tried to re-write Zechariah 3:6-7 ??

and you're still talking about the body of flesh -- do you not believe you have a soul?
do you think the inevitable returning of your carnal body to dust is damnation?
you think your flesh is all you are?

 

[posthuman]

But, OSAS will stop at nothing to excuse sin in the sight of God

what in the world are you talking about?

where did this accusation come from?

because i called you out on your bogus eisegesis of the text of Zechariah, you think i am trying to excuse sin??

you're not making any sense to me.

 

[Phoneman-777]

so?

really?

so you were 100% wrong to compare the old practice of the RCC of selling indulgences to Christ having atoned for all sin, past present and future.
so it is your belief, the belief that Christ's sacrifice on the cross is insufficient to cover sins not yet committed, that is actually in spirit identical to that wicked practice of the old catholics.

that's significant dude. it's not something for you to just brush off.

I said "so" because the fact that we need to confess future sins in order to obtain future forgiveness is not to blame for the RCC using it to justify the sale of future forgiveness even before the sin is indulged.

Christ's blood-purchased forgiveness for anyone that asks. OSAS says, no need to ask, we already have it, for "ye receive not because ye ask not". A hungry man with a bazillion dollars in the bank can convince himself his empty fridge is full, but he'll starve to death if he doesn't make a withdrawal and get some food, right or wrong?

 

[Phoneman-777]

Now you have out did yourself. THREE bold faced, ABSOLUTE LIES about OSAS Theology, when we TEACH THE EXACT OPPOSITE.

Don't YOU EVER GET TIRED OF LYING ? ? ?

What does GOD THINK OF LIARS ? ? ?

Revelation 21:8 (HCSB)
8 But the cowards, unbelievers, vile, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars—their share will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Psalm 63:11 (ESV)
11 But the king shall rejoice in God; all who swear by him shall exult, for the mouths of liars will be stopped.

Psalm 58:3 (HCSB)
3 The wicked go astray from the womb; liars err from birth.

Psalm 5:6 (HCSB)
6 You destroy those who tell lies; the LORD abhors a man of bloodshed and treachery.

John 8:44 (HCSB)
44 You are of your father the Devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of liars.

1 Timothy 1:10 (HCSB)
10 for the sexually immoral and homosexuals, for kidnappers, liars, perjurers, and for whatever else is contrary to the sound teaching

1 Timothy 4:1-2 (ESV)
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,
2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared,

1 John 4:20-21 (NRSV)
20 Those who say, "I love God," and hate their brothers or sisters, are liars; for those who do not love a brother or sister whom they have seen, cannot love God whom they have not seen.
21 The commandment we have from him is this: those who love God must love their brothers and sisters also.

I prefer to not respond to what appears to be emotionalism.

 

[Phoneman-777]

The "enduring" is clearly a physical endurance during the tribulation.
The are saved from a physical death at that time.

Sorry, but that makes no sense.

Why would the same God Who says our lives are but a "vapor", "be faithful unto death and you shall receive a crown of life", "we are killed all the day long", "sheep to the slaughter", and "if this earthly tabernacle were dissolved, we've got a tabernacle in heaven" - ESPECIALLY during the mythological "7 last years of tribulation" just before we all get new ones - be concerned about our "physical" bodies?

He's talking about enduring to the end the temptation to allow abounding iniquity to cause the agape of the saints to turn cold and dead.

 

[azamzimtoti]

so these among that congregation who rejected resurrection never believed in the gospel at all - because the gospel is a gospel of resurrection?

I'm not saying that exactly Post. What I'm saying is the quote was out of context to Paul's admonition. As Paul said if the resurrection is false then so was their hope.

 

[Phoneman-777]

He wrote a treatise called "On the Jews and their Lies" in which he urged persecution of the jews. If that's not hatred of jews, I don't know what would qualify.

Come to think of it, I've heard of it, but never read it. But, the Bible does say that "wrath has come upon them to the uttermost" for murdering Jesus and to this day having never repented and accepted Him, and Luther knew that. I'll check it out thanks.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Jesus lives in His saints via the Holy Spirit.

He doesn't live in the heart of a former saint who kicked Him out.

 

[Phoneman-777]

We do not abide for salvation, that is a done deal, we abide in fellowship and union,

Again, is the consequence of a branch separated from the vine limited to just "disfellowship" and "disunion", or does it die?

 

[Phoneman-777]

you're only talking about the body of flesh.

do you think you are a body of flesh?
you don't think you're more than that?
you are aware that the Christian worldview involves personhood being a soul, not a body of flesh, right?

He breathed into the body and the man became a living soul, yes?

Absolutely, the Living Soul exists only as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life. When God takes back the Breath of Life, whether from a saint, sinner, or animal in nature (Solomon says the beasts have the SAME Breath) - the bodies return to the Earth and the Living Soul becomes a Dead Soul...ceases to be until the one or the other resurrection.

 

[Phoneman-777]

have a read:


Martin Luther - "On the Jews and Their Lies" (PDF link)

Thank you.

 

[Phoneman-777]

there's nothing about having a firm anchor of the soul, a faith in the faithfulness of God and the sufficiency of His work, that despises an obligation to do what is right.

you accuse, but it's just you accusing until you yourself provide proof that someone is actually preaching 'sin all the more' since grace abounds. we have heard this spurious accusation over and over for over six thousand pages now.

That may be the case for you, but human nature is such that if you give someone a license to do wrong, wrong is what they'll do.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Salvation is a junky car i have to keep pouring money into?

_________________________________________

Someone said anything less than OSAS is "maintaining/keeping up" salvation, so I said you maintain a car when it breaks, but choosing not to drive off a cliff - like a saint choosing to "endure to the end" instead of choosing to be lost - is just good sense.

 

[Phoneman-777]

what in the world do you think that has to do with the fact that you tried to re-write Zechariah 3:6-7 ??

and you're still talking about the body of flesh -- do you not believe you have a soul?
do you think the inevitable returning of your carnal body to dust is damnation?
you think your flesh is all you are?

It has to do with overthrowing criticism that I re wrote anything. A blind man can see that, based on many examples of Scripture, that God sets before the saints the choice to either "go and sin no more" or perish.

 

[Phoneman-777]

what in the world are you talking about?

where did this accusation come from?

because i called you out on your bogus eisegesis of the text of Zechariah, you think i am trying to excuse sin??

you're not making any sense to me.

Do you not know the difference between what is Explicit and what is Implicit? Peter plainly says the fate of a Sanitized Saint is WORSE for him if he again becomes entangled with rebellion. What would've happened to Joshua if he again returned to rebelling against God based on what Peter says? That's right - "new and improved fire brand...now with patented Willie Pete technology!"

 

[posthuman]

Absolutely, the Living Soul exists only as a consequence of the union of the Body and the Breath of Life. When God takes back the Breath of Life, whether from a saint, sinner, or animal in nature (Solomon says the beasts have the SAME Breath) - the bodies return to the Earth and the Living Soul becomes a Dead Soul...ceases to be until the one or the other resurrection.

are you a Jehovah's Witness?

you know Moses appeared at the transfiguration, and he was dead-in-the-flesh, and hadn't been resurrected, right?

you know Jesus says He's the God of Abraham & Isaac & Jacob - and He's the God of the living, not the dead, right?
these men's bodies are dust in tombs, not resurrected, but God calls them alive - so you realize you do not think about these things the way God does, don't you?

who in the world told you that garbage?