Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Discern said:
Very well. I appreciate your patient and friendly reply

So when does this hypothetical "counter arguer" stop speaking and James start to speaking again? That would be a vital question for your interpretation. The whole text from verse 14-26 seems to be in agreement. There does not seem to be a point/counterpoint there that I can see.

SO which words in James 2:14-26 are James and which words belong to the hypothetical person that is arguing counter to him?
Click to expand...
 
Discern said:
Very well. I appreciate your patient and friendly reply

So when does this hypothetical "counter arguer" stop speaking and James start to speaking again? That would be a vital question for your interpretation. The whole text from verse 14-26 seems to be in agreement. There does not seem to be a point/counterpoint there that I can see.

SO which words in James 2:14-26 are James and which words belong to the hypothetical person that is arguing counter to him?
Click to expand...

Good question... I have no idea ...just joking ..

I should have not brought it up..no one sees it ...I tire of being the lone wolf on this view.:(
 
EleventhHour said:
Good question... I have no idea ...just joking ..

I should have not brought it up..no one sees it ...I tire of being the lone wolf on this view.:(
Click to expand...

It’s ok. I have been in the minority position many times. Just keep an open heart about it. The way I interpret James 2 does not conflict with saved by grace or justified by faith alone whatsoever

James and Paul are perfectly compatible. They are just opposing two different errors
 
  • Like
Reactions: eternally-gratefull and EleventhHour
Discern said:
It’s ok. I have been in the minority position many times. Just keep an open heart about it. The way I interpret James 2 does not conflict with saved by grace or justified by faith alone whatsoever

James and Paul are perfectly compatible. They are Just opposing two different errors
Click to expand...

No conflict for sure...on either of those ...however I do not believe in context of the whole letter he is addressing spurious faith.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Discern
TooFastTurtle said:
Thank you for the message and prayers. I can admit I am now completely bankrupt, that is true. I never cry and I even shed a tear.

If we are to be justified by obedience that would require perfect faithfulness which none of us have. That is why Jesus is the only way.

The problem for me was that I viewed salvation in a way that is a process of sorts. You could believe in Jesus today, now you are saved, but then it is up to you, how you do with that free gift either you throw it away or cherish it and keep it clean. That all is depending on yourself to top off your salvation, which the Scriptures witness Jesus being the finisher of.

I was very blind for not seeing the free gift is eternal life, not temporary life or a probationary life. It is important to pay attention to every word in detail.

But by no means, do not listen to me, I am just typing my thoughts out. I do believe in Jesus alone, only, for my salvation
Click to expand...
That’s a winner right there, beloved. 😎
 
  • Like
Reactions: Discern, eternally-gratefull and EleventhHour
Whispered said:
My maternal side of the family are from the Tennessee mountains. And while I don't recall them ever going to church when we would visit, I can say I wouldn't turn down the opportunity to experience this type of church.
The energy there must be amazing to witness.
Click to expand...

You had better then twice. Sometimes the turn snakes loose on the floor. Safer way is they have several videos on YouTube.

And some think testing they faith with poison, too. Don't Drink the Kool Aide.
 
VCO said:
You had better think twice. Sometimes the turn snakes loose on the floor. Safer way is they have several videos on YouTube.

And some think testing they faith with poison, too. Don't Drink the Kool Aide.
Click to expand...


I should not be typing this so late at night, I make more typos that way. Here is the a video about them:

{
}

IT IS NOT OF GOD!
 
VCO said:
You had better then twice. Sometimes the turn snakes loose on the floor. Safer way is they have several videos on YouTube.

And some think testing they faith with poison, too. Don't Drink the Kool Aide.
Click to expand...
I know they also drink poison in those type of services also.
As far as that goes it's Darwin put into practice.
 
Regarding snakes and vipers and being protected from them, Martin Luther suggested that “the signs here spoken of are to be used according to need. When the need arises, and the Gospel is hard-pressed, then we must definitely do these signs, before we allow the Gospel to be maligned and knocked down.”

I see snakes and vipers as a metaphor for evil people and the poison as being their false teaching that poisons people minds. The apostles would come into contact with these people on a fairly regular basis.
 
Jesus said, "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?" (Mat 23:33 KJV)

This 5-minute rule is ridiculous
 
TheDivineWatermark said:
No, this passage says,

[v.2] by [means of] which YE ARE [present indicative] saved, IF [in-fact] you-hold-fast [like we say, 'you hold to'] the word *I [PAUL]* proclaimed to you [a certain 'message' which NECESSARILY [/VITALLY] INCLUDES 'His RESURRECTION'], unless you have BELIEVED IN VAIN"

(and later on down in the passage explains what to "BELIEVE *IN VAIN*" means, and that means "to leave off the VITAL TRUTH of His 'RESURRECTION'"... THAT is to "BELIEVE *IN VAIN*"... which some among them WERE saying "there is no resurrection of the dead," v.12).

You have to understand the CONTEXT, here.


[the word 'you hold to' / 'you hold fast' means that you base your belief ON THAT FACT]
Click to expand...
Hi DW, in the same passage addressing the same believers Paul writes as follows:

1 Corinthians 15
34 Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.

Think about that. Think about how much is contained in such a short verse that expounds so much light on what we have been endlessly debating for years.

>Written to the church
>telling them to awake to righteousness (Some here would claim they are already righteously settled, so why would they now have to awake to righteousness?)
>Do not sin (Some here would say sin no longer exists. Some would say "DO NOT SIN" means works salvationism). Yet Paul writes to the church "Do Not Sin".
>Paul equates those who don't understand these matters as "Not having the knowledge of God". How many here argue and kick against these very matters. Yet Paul writes that these don't have knowledge of God. I can, based on my observations and debates here, fully understand what Paul is pointing out to the church. I mean it not as an arrogant standpoint at all. Its actually exasperation that the body of believers cannot see this. It breaks my heart.
>Paul rounds off with "I speak this to your shame". Yes - it is shameful that we have this doctrine in amongst the believers. Ignorance as to the potential dangers lurking at the door. Its the same warning God gave to Cain in Genesis 4 " 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is [d]for you, but you should rule over it.”

We have been given the EQUIPPING to RULE OVER IT. He is the Holy Spirit of Grace. You no longer need to present your body as an instrument of unrighteousness. Paul wasn't wallowing in the mire once he received the life in the Spirit. Neither do you have to. You can RULE OVER IT.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NayborBear
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back