It's o.k., you were obviously predestined to not be reformed. lol
You were also predestined to like my sense of humor. lol
And YOU were predestinated to entertain us !!
PS
Especially liked Romans 9 !!
Loss of salvation???
- Thread starter gratefuloneson
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And YOU were predestinated to entertain us !!
PS
Especially liked Romans 9 !!
Colossians states the Godhead dwells in Jesus. As such, Jesus is the "name" of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The bible declares calling upon the name of Jesus is done upon obedience to the water baptism command. (Acts 2:38, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 22:16)
Col 2:9, 12
"For in him (Jesus) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Buried with HIM (Jesus) in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead."
Yes, it is true that John introduced water baptism. However, it was later modified to include the name of Jesus in association with His sacrifice. Note: Jesus prophesied that repentance, and remission of sin would be preached IN HIS NAME in ALL nations and would BEGIN in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47) It was in Jerusalem that Peter presented God's message that everyone was to be water baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin. (Acts 2:38)
And it is true that John said he baptized with water for repentance, and that Jesus would baptize with the Holy Spirit and fire. However, John did not say one would replace the other. And we know it did not, because water baptism continued. The only difference was the NT baptism was administered in the name of Jesus, and the people received the Holy Ghost in a separate experience. Please note: Acts 2:4-42, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 22:16.
As to the scenerios you presented about ignorance. God is certainly capable of leading people, who are willing to be led, to the truth. Again, Cornelius is a perfect example. He prayed, fasted, etc. yet was not saved. We know he was not saved because all those living in the NT must be born again. (John 3:3-5) And Jesus gave Peter the keyS that bring about that reality. A reality that would never have been possible had Jesus not gone to the cross.
Concerning Luke 12:47-48 - Are people servants of the master prior to being born again?
Agreed, but the workers cannot settle for this because they need to believe their obedience contributes to their salvation.
Let us be clear even though they deny it, it is a "Gospel of I save myself by my obedience" and this directly contradicts scripture and nullifies the work of Christ Jesus and His victory.
Absolutely horrible theology.
For those casual readers, this guy believes HIS works keeps him saved.
Do NOT believe him.
The Lord Jesus Christ saves AND keeps us saved!
Romans 4:4-5:
Now to him who works, the reward is not counted as grace, but as debt. But to him who doesn’t work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.
Now to him who works, the reward is not counted as grace, but as debt. But to him who doesn’t work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.
I understand you do not oppose baptism. However, I don't think you understand that it is an essential element in God's plan of salvation.
Consider that it was no accident that Cornelius found out about water baptism. Scripture reveals his prayer and fasting resulted in God leading him to the truth. And that's my point.
Again, Jesus said it is those who hunger and thirst after righteousness that will be filled. Unfortunately, we live in a society that has a hard time accepting personal responsibility. Think about it. If someone doesn't know about the need to be water baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin, whose fault is it? Certainly not God's. It is not His will that any should perish but that all should come to the knowledge of the truth. This proves He tugs and tugs on people's hearts, only to be ignored. Could it be that the reason a person doesn't know is they declined an invitation to bible study or church service that God appointed giving them the opportunity to hear the truth about it? Or, maybe a well intentioned person said, hey, all you have to do is believe in Jesus, and water baptism has nothing to do with that. Don't worry you're good to go. Personally, I decided to see what God had to say about it. And I'm so very glad I did.
The Word of God says Jesus made it possible for everyone to have their sins remitted. Did Peter not say that everyone must repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus to have sin remitted? Was Paul not given the specific instructions that prove sins are washed away upon obedience to water baptism? "Why tarriest, (why wait) be baptized and wash away your sins calling upon the name of the Lord?" This is evidence that water baptism in the name of Jesus is required for remission of sin. Sadly, people just refuse to believe it.
As to your comment about respecting, praying to, loving, and changing habits for Jesus, they are not what scripture says result in the NT rebirth experience. However, I do believe that those who love Jesus and truly desire to know the truth will receive revelation. (Acts 2:4-42, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 17-19; 22:16)
Convoluted and not understandable?This is actually very simple to understand.
John 3:36 - The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. (NASB)
DOES NOT OBEY THE SON = REFUSES TO BELIEVE IN THE SON.
John 3:36 - The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him. (HCSB)
Nice try.
Greek: πιστεύων (pisteuōn, "believes") vs. ἀπειθῶν (apeithōn, "disobeys") - presented by John as direct opposites.
Logical equivalence: believing = obeying.
BELIEVES IN THE SON = OBEYS THE SON.
The one who believes/obeys the Son has eternal life and will see life; the wrath of God does not remain on him.
Why work so hard against the Text?
That’s what it seems like. The funny part is you can ask people “are you saved by your works?” They’ll say “no”. Then you can say “so you’re saved by faith alone?” And they’ll say “no”. I give up.
A saved child of God who is disobedient will endure chastening (divine correction) from the Father (Hebrews 12:5-11).
The consequences can be:
- ruined testimony
- loss of eternal rewards and temporal protection/blessings
- loss of fellowship with God
- possibly even an early call home through physical death
The consequences can be:
- ruined testimony
- loss of eternal rewards and temporal protection/blessings
- loss of fellowship with God
- possibly even an early call home through physical death
They are forced to be inconsistent because they know there are many verses which flatly contradict what they preach so it is a way to straddle the lanes and cover all bases.
Ultimately, their doctrine falls apart purely from a logic point of view.... and on its face, since they can never quantify how much obedience is required to keep one saved.
They are in a state of delusion.
God does not leave us guessing.
It takes one act of obedience to save eternally.
God does not impart "ainios" life to then turn around and retrieve it.
Which is something preachers of a lost/forsaken/retrieved salvation can never really pin down... the >>> when, why and how this event of lost/forsaken/retrieved occurs.
And this is the “work” and “obedience” we need to do:
John 6
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.”
These verses came to mind for some reason...
Romans 8
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:
“For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Those are some encouraging words!
Romans 8
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:
“For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Those are some encouraging words!
Curious, you say JESUS is the one who saves us.
And JESUS is the one who keeps us saved.
Is there anything we have to do?
Any conditions at all?
Yes I know it’s Sola Fide. It comes from the five Solas.
We have been saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, according to Scripture alone, for the glory of God alone.
Sola Gratia
“For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”
Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV
Sola Fide
“For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.”
Romans 3:28 ESV
Solus Christus
“For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.”
1 Timothy 2:5-6 ESV
Sola Scriptura
“All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”
2 Timothy 3:16-17 ESV
Soli Deo Gloria
“So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.”
1 Corinthians 10:31 ESV
Eternal security is biblical.
Once you are a child of God through faith in Christ (John 1:12, Galatians 3:26), you are always a child of God.
He never leaves us, loses none of us, and we are forever secure in His hands (John 10:27-30, Hebrews 13:5).
The End.
Once you are a child of God through faith in Christ (John 1:12, Galatians 3:26), you are always a child of God.
He never leaves us, loses none of us, and we are forever secure in His hands (John 10:27-30, Hebrews 13:5).
The End.
So I can sleep around on my wife.
Live in the bars every night.
I wonder how many things to list?
I can live anyway I want and do anything I like just believe and keep my faith in JESUS and I'm good to go.