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The Kingdom of God will be established on earth. Yes, there will be a new heavens and a new earth. In the meantime, Jesus will reign from (NEW) Jerusalem. If Israel does not exist, the book of Revelation has no meaning.

Fixed it for you.

Did you ever wonder how Christ could reign from present-day Jerusalem FOREVER when the present-day earth and heavens are done away with and replaced with a new heaven and a new earth and (here's the kicker) a Heavenly Jerusalem?

Also, more Jews have been killed by Arabs than have British soldiers. Is that because THEY, the Jews, have also rejected their covenant with God? Today, supporting Israel is a political choice not a godly mandate. It's fine to support Israel, but excusing their behavior because they are "God's chosen people" helps them remain estranged from the Son.

Funny how they "..will not see the Lord again until THEY say "Blessed is he (people who are sent by God) who comes in the name of the Lord." Yet, what they hear from many U.S. per-sitters is "It's okay, keep doing what you're doing. And here... take some more weapons in Jesus' name." Sheesh!
 
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And so it was prophesied to be to point to the one that soon will be. Well friend I do wish you well and agree to disagree
Just stop judging this israel as a counterfeit its not true and that's not Christian.
Naw I don’t need to stop staring me opinion in a discussion forum . God will do things his way as he foretold . Not like what’s happening in this world your looking at still

“Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world.

If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews.

But now my kingdom is from another place.””
‭‭John‬ ‭18:36‬ ‭NIV‬‬

The old covenant is broken this world doomed Gods kingdom is a new heaven and earth where Israel’s tribes will be restored who accept thier messiah.

It was never going to be established by war and bombs but by the coming of the messiah and tbier acceptance of him thier king ……who they rejected and accused and condemned to death on a cross

Do you ever read parables?

“Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said. “But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’ So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?” “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.” Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: “ ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes’ ?

Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:37-44‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“Now it was the governor’s custom at the festival to release a prisoner chosen by the crowd. But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowd to ask for Barabbas and to have Jesus executed.

“Which of the two do you want me to release to you?” asked the governor. “Barabbas,” they answered. “What shall I do, then, with Jesus who is called the Messiah?” Pilate asked. They all answered, “Crucify him!”

“Why? What crime has he committed?” asked Pilate. But they shouted all the louder, “Crucify him!””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:15, 20-23‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“Neither has Herod, for he sent him back to us; as you can see, he has done nothing to deserve death. Therefore, I will punish him and then release him.” But the whole crowd shouted, “Away with this man! Release Barabbas to us!” Wanting to release Jesus, Pilate appealed to them again. But they kept shouting, “Crucify him! Crucify him!””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:15-16, 18, 20-21‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Some here haven’t actually read the old covenant and the wrong idea because they won’t accept this part


Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee: and they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭28:45-46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they killed his prophets he sent to call them to repentance persecuted his servants and righteous he preserved . Bother the early prophets and latter messianic prophets . They rejected them . Finally he sent the long awaited messiah and they rejected and constantly tried to find a reason to accuse him in order to condemn him.

eventually he said he was the son of God and they all said he was worthy of death all thier keasers and rulers that oreoteeented them before God all decided Jesus thier king was a blasphemer and needed to be killed for his terrible sin .

That was thier Hope and still is today they broke thier covenant he made a new one with them not about the same promised land that’s desolate
 
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Naw I don’t need to stop staring me opinion in a discussion forum . God will do things his way as he foretold . Not like what’s happening in this world your looking at still

“Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world.

If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews.

But now my kingdom is from another place.””
‭‭John‬ ‭18:36‬ ‭NIV‬‬

The old covenant is broken this world doomed Gods kingdom is a new heaven and earth where Israel’s tribes will be restored who accept thier messiah.

It was never going to be established by war and bombs but by the coming of the messiah and tbier acceptance of him thier king ……who they rejected and accused and condemned to death on a cross

Do you ever read parables?

“Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said. “But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’ So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?” “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.” Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: “ ‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes’ ?

Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:37-44‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“Now it was the governor’s custom at the festival to release a prisoner chosen by the crowd. But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowd to ask for Barabbas and to have Jesus executed.

“Which of the two do you want me to release to you?” asked the governor. “Barabbas,” they answered. “What shall I do, then, with Jesus who is called the Messiah?” Pilate asked. They all answered, “Crucify him!”

“Why? What crime has he committed?” asked Pilate. But they shouted all the louder, “Crucify him!””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:15, 20-23‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“Neither has Herod, for he sent him back to us; as you can see, he has done nothing to deserve death. Therefore, I will punish him and then release him.” But the whole crowd shouted, “Away with this man! Release Barabbas to us!” Wanting to release Jesus, Pilate appealed to them again. But they kept shouting, “Crucify him! Crucify him!””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:15-16, 18, 20-21‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Some here haven’t actually read the old covenant and the wrong idea because they won’t accept this part


Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee: and they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭28:45-46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they killed his prophets he sent to call them to repentance persecuted his servants and righteous he preserved . Bother the early prophets and latter messianic prophets . They rejected them . Finally he sent the long awaited messiah and they rejected and constantly tried to find a reason to accuse him in order to condemn him.

eventually he said he was the son of God and they all said he was worthy of death all thier keasers and rulers that oreoteeented them before God all decided Jesus thier king was a blasphemer and needed to be killed for his terrible sin .

That was thier Hope and still is today they broke thier covenant he made a new one with them not about the same promised land that’s desolate

And as I said I agree to disagree. If you want to take the position of a un forgiving God so be it. Jesus said out loud...father forgive them but hey what do I know. Bottom line is that no one enters without Jesus say so. The thief onthe cross is a example of that.
More over Jesus adressed the pharisees of the temple not Israel as a whole.
Today unfortunately a young man shot and killed his neighbour in my town so should I wait to be arrested for what he done?

I think we could resolve this disagreement with patients on my part. I'll wait and watch for another Israel to arise to everyone's liking
And to everyone's expectations as to how God would do it. But I must confess I have more years behind me than in front so I pray it happens soon.
 
Fixed it for you.

Did you ever wonder how Christ could reign from present-day Jerusalem FOREVER when the present-day earth and heavens are done away with and replaced with a new heaven and a new earth and (here's the kicker) a Heavenly Jerusalem?

Also, more Jews have been killed by Arabs than have British soldiers. Is that because THEY, the Jews, have also rejected their covenant with God? Today, supporting Israel is a political choice not a godly mandate. It's fine to support Israel, but excusing their behavior because they are "God's chosen people" helps them remain estranged from the Son.

Funny how they "..will not see the Lord again until THEY say "Blessed is he (people who are sent by God) who comes in the name of the Lord." Yet, what they hear from many U.S. per-sitters is "It's okay, keep doing what you're doing. And here... take some more weapons in Jesus' name." Sheesh!
Excusing their behavior for wanting to survive? Question, does Satan especially hate Israel, a nation chose by God to be the epicenter of His creation? Do you really believe if Israel opened it's borders and let anyone in they would not be in danger? And supporting Israel has nothing to do with politics for many of us, God is supporting and protecting Israel. His prophecies will continue with Israel at the core.
 
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I think we could resolve this disagreement with patients on my part. I'll wait and watch for another Israel to arise to everyone's liking

That would be this Israel

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. Revelation 19:11
And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Revelation 19:14-15
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. Jude 1:14-15
 
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And as I said I agree to disagree. If you want to take the position of a un forgiving God so be it. Jesus said out loud...father forgive them but hey what do I know. Bottom line is that no one enters without Jesus say so. The thief onthe cross is a example of that.
More over Jesus adressed the pharisees of the temple not Israel as a whole.
Today unfortunately a young man shot and killed his neighbour in my town so should I wait to be arrested for what he done?

I think we could resolve this disagreement with patients on my part. I'll wait and watch for another Israel to arise to everyone's liking
And to everyone's expectations as to how God would do it. But I must confess I have more years behind me than in front so I pray it happens soon.

Are you disagreeing with scripture and saying that God changed his mind about the part where Jews needed to keep their end of God's covenant made in the OT regarding land?Or do you think those verses are irrelevant to the topic?
 
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Excusing their behavior for wanting to survive? Question, does Satan especially hate Israel, a nation chose by God to be the epicenter of His creation? Do you really believe if Israel opened it's borders and let anyone in they would not be in danger? And supporting Israel has nothing to do with politics for many of us, God is supporting and protecting Israel. His prophecies will continue with Israel at the core.
Oh, I get it. You think the US is a “Christian Nation”.
 
And as I said I agree to disagree. If you want to take the position of a un forgiving God so be it. Jesus said out loud...father forgive them but hey what do I know. Bottom line is that no one enters without Jesus say so. The thief onthe cross is a example of that.
More over Jesus adressed the pharisees of the temple not Israel as a whole.
Today unfortunately a young man shot and killed his neighbour in my town so should I wait to be arrested for what he done?

I think we could resolve this disagreement with patients on my part. I'll wait and watch for another Israel to arise to everyone's liking
And to everyone's expectations as to how God would do it. But I must confess I have more years behind me than in front so I pray it happens soon.
“And as I said I agree to disagree. If you want to take the position of a un forgiving God so be it”

naw that must be your position , my god keeps his word Even if it’s a warning to repent or else….

None of what your saying changes anything I’ve said if Jews dont accept the gospel they can’t be saved. He’s thier messiah thier savior the one Gid sent to restore them ect there no other way I vented by man that’s going to be of god it had to be what he said whoch is through Christ and accepting thier savior . That seems like a pretty basic point in Christianity if you reject the gospel you aren’t going to be saved regardless of your heritage
 
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“This blanket "the Jews" is false. Which of the first disciples were not Jews? Which of the founding apostles? “

yeah they converted to Christianity which is the point Judaism is a religion when a person converts there is no such things as a Jew or a gentile they are born again

judaism cannot save any human Christianity can save any human Jew included gentile included everyone jew or gentile has to convert and believe like the early church did bit Judaism has to go away as does gentile religion

Jew or gentile have to repent and convert or they can’t be saved Jews don’t exist in the new covenant nor do gentiles that’s old covenant identification look what happens in Christ

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Being a Jew doesn’t help being gentile doesn’t help both have to repent and believe the gospel . The Jews are formed by Judaism it’s a religion not a race . Hebrews are a race Jews are because of Judaism a religion that rejects Christ as messiah

No Jew can be saved if they won’t repent and accept the gospel . So for people to think God is blessing thier nation as they reject the messiah his son still because of thier religion , is what I personally consider “ false “

this is absolutely tru for a Jew or a gentile

“Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel, if we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole; be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:8-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

as long as Judaism is a persons belief there’s no possibility of being saved that’s a fact . Reject Jesus and the gospel and there’s nothing left that’s the issue with “ Jews “ they reject Jesus Christ because of thier religion which defines them

jews aren’t a nation they are the religious zealots adherent to trusting Moses law , the Hebrews people became a nation through isreal ( Jacob ) and his offspring.

so yeah no one’s blanketing the “ Jews “ they have to repent and become christians like anyone else does but try to get a Jew to let go of Judaism then you’ll understand it’s a religion not a race
You really do not get it. Just read Romans 9, 10 and 11. The penny may drop. I don't know anyone on the forum who is claiming that salvation is other than faith in Jesus.

Jews are Jews by race, just as Arabs are a race. I do not understand why that is so hard to understand. God promised to bring the Jews back to Israel. It's been done, Israel is a nation and Jews are still coming.

Don't give me that rubbish that Jews won't let go of Judaism. Jews are turning to Christ while the so-called Christian nations are rejecting Christ. That includes the good ole USA.

"In 2022, CBN News reported on the concerning findings of a survey released by Dr. George Barna’s Cultural Research Center at Arizona Christian University. The analysis found that, while 67% of American parents with preteens identified as Christians, only 2% held to a biblical worldview."

That same study found only 39% of pastors possessed biblical worldviews on matters related to truth and morality.

“In the Christian church today, we have people talking about God and preaching from the Bible that don’t trust and/or believe God in how they should carry out their every day lives,” he said. “Weak pulpits create weak Christians. … Weak shepherds create weak sheep, and that’s what we’re contending with today.”

MAGA? Only humble repentance and turning back to God will bring that to pass. Personally, I think it's too late.
 
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Right they were . My point was that the nation of Israel was established by the west winning the war and the counsel afterwards . They all got together because the Jews were not only being persecuted in Germany and Italy but pretty much across the globe . It was a world problem the societies were blaming Jews for all the depressed economies . Illegal immigrants they saw them as and knew it was straining thoer societies

the solution they came up with was to force the people in the land pit and make a jewish state according to the land described in the Bible . “ all these wandering Jews are a problem they need a homeland let’s take what the Bible said and use it for justification to create a Jewish state and send them all to one place so they aren’t in our lands “

abut first we need to slaughter and remove those people that fill the land today . And so the Zionist plans and ideas that existed before this as a solution ….Began to be instilled and executed . The muslim peoples in the land began to swiftly be pushed out with violent means coercion threats and so on

My point was where the idea and motivations and means and decision came from it’s not what god promises in the Bible regarding Israel’s restoration . The messiah being rejected will never lead to restoration “ Jews “ need to convert to Christianity in order to inherit the blessing and be restored Gods way .

what we are seeing in this world now ( in my opinion and it’s okay that we don’t agree I don’t have a problem with it ) is not what God has foretold in the Bible regarding Israel’s salvation and restoration through a new eternal covenant and the messiah who brought it to them . God will do what he said but sometimes man tries to do it for him before he does it …..it never works out look at saria and her plan to provide Abraham an heir to fulfill gods promise to him by going outside his marriage with her servant as if God wasn’t able to provide the hier

i think ( just my opinion ) that’s what This is man trying to force gods plan by tboer own Will to restore a desolate nation to a people that are rejecting thier lord and savior whomis the only way for them or anyone else to be redeemed and restored to life everlasting
John Wesley, Isaac Newton and Charles Spurgeon all saw from God's word that Israel would be restored as a nation. Isaac Newton even predicted how long it would take. He was not far out either.

John Adams, Woodrow Wilson, and Harry Truman supported the idea of a Jewish state. Some people have the false idea that it was a purely European and UK movement.
 
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Are you disagreeing with scripture and saying that God changed his mind about the part where Jews needed to keep their end of God's covenant made in the OT regarding land?Or do you think those verses are irrelevant to the topic?

Not at all, I believe you all are missing the point. You should be encouraging Israel not condemning it. God said he will do it for His name sake not Israel's.
And to say because they killed the prophets and the son of God as a excuse hitler used that also as his excuse among many.

God will bring them that he wills into repentance in his time. They will look on him Jesus that they have peirced and lament.
Who are we to bring up Israels sins for all have sinned and are worthy of death.
do you honestly think Jesus would condemn his brothers and sisters being a jew himself. And destroy israel that he created.
He is the God who is able to do all things.
If you find this Israel a enemy what are you to do about your enemies? Sermon on the mount re read please .
If you find them offensive....re read sermon again.
Take a lesson from Isreal of old ....dont murmer...dont sew discord...God wants to unite christian and Jew.
I can't stress enough how Satan wants you to take a road that leads to a not so good place. I have been at this for only 5 years and heard both sides starting with replacement theology now this spiritual thing. Listened to many arguments including counterfeit Israel.
Gaza is a spiritual demonic strong hold. Always has been. Check its history. Iran now has become seeds of Satan this is a country that helped build the 2nd temple now wants to stop the building of the final end time temple. Ask yourself why.
You have to be blind if you do not see end time prophecy coming to pass with this Israel front and center of the world right now.
And you ask if I'm discarding scripture? Really?
 
Fixed it for you.

Did you ever wonder how Christ could reign from present-day Jerusalem FOREVER when the present-day earth and heavens are done away with and replaced with a new heaven and a new earth and (here's the kicker) a Heavenly Jerusalem?

Also, more Jews have been killed by Arabs than have British soldiers. Is that because THEY, the Jews, have also rejected their covenant with God? Today, supporting Israel is a political choice not a godly mandate. It's fine to support Israel, but excusing their behavior because they are "God's chosen people" helps them remain estranged from the Son.

Funny how they "..will not see the Lord again until THEY say "Blessed is he (people who are sent by God) who comes in the name of the Lord." Yet, what they hear from many U.S. per-sitters is "It's okay, keep doing what you're doing. And here... take some more weapons in Jesus' name." Sheesh!
I do not expect you to understand God's ways as you are not born again.

God has a plan and purpose for Israel. He does not ask the permission of replacement believers or unbelievers like you. Israel the nation is secular. Yet God's plan for Israel stands. They have paid and will pay a terrible price for rebelling against God. Yet while the church in the West is turning away from Christ, the church is growing in Israel.

You are a hypocrite if you expect your nation to defend you from its enemies. That's what armies are for. Why should Israel not defend itself? It's the only democracy in the Middle East. Why do you demand something of Israel that no other nation is subject to?

I do not expect the world to support Israel. I'm surprised when there is support, not when it is lacking. The world system is under the control of the devil. Unbelievers are blind to reality and truth.

Please don't get too upset. This is a Christian forum and I speak as a Christian. What I say is from the Bible.
 
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Not at all, I believe you all are missing the point. You should be encouraging Israel not condemning it. God said he will do it for His name sake not Israel's.
And to say because they killed the prophets and the son of God as a excuse hitler used that also as his excuse among many.

God will bring them that he wills into repentance in his time. They will look on him Jesus that they have peirced and lament.
Who are we to bring up Israels sins for all have sinned and are worthy of death.
do you honestly think Jesus would condemn his brothers and sisters being a jew himself. And destroy israel that he created.
He is the God who is able to do all things.
If you find this Israel a enemy what are you to do about your enemies? Sermon on the mount re read please .
If you find them offensive....re read sermon again.
Take a lesson from Isreal of old ....dont murmer...dont sew discord...God wants to unite christian and Jew.
I can't stress enough how Satan wants you to take a road that leads to a not so good place. I have been at this for only 5 years and heard both sides starting with replacement theology now this spiritual thing. Listened to many arguments including counterfeit Israel.
Gaza is a spiritual demonic strong hold. Always has been. Check its history. Iran now has become seeds of Satan this is a country that helped build the 2nd temple now wants to stop the building of the final end time temple. Ask yourself why.
You have to be blind if you do not see end time prophecy coming to pass with this Israel front and center of the world right now.
And you ask if I'm discarding scripture? Really?

There are several OT references to Gaza's destruction. It's happening right now. And it is entirely the fault of the people of Gaza. It did not have to happen. Israel withdrew entirely from Gaza. Gaza in effect became self governing. They could have been prosperous and peaceful. They chose death and destruction instead. They are reaping what they have sown.
 
Revelation doesn't say anything about a nation of Israel. It mentions a location called Armageddon (Mount Megiddo) and it mentions a great city the world calls Jerusalem, but God calls Sodom and Egypt. And for those who have ears to hear, it is also called Babylon. Jesus can reign from Jerusalem without any city being there because it is a location. There doesn't have to be people or buildings there, and I suspect when Jesus returns there won't be either
You see everything through a false narrative. Aaron56 has an an excuse, he is not a believer. What is your excuse?
 
There are several OT references to Gaza's destruction. It's happening right now. And it is entirely the fault of the people of Gaza. It did not have to happen. Israel withdrew entirely from Gaza. Gaza in effect became self governing. They could have been prosperous and peaceful. They chose death and destruction instead. They are reaping what they have sown.

Unbelief creates such a bizarre myopia and self-centeredness that can only see prophetic fulfillment in the current time.
 
Ezekiel 36:22
I Will Put My Spirit Within You
22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord God: yIt is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name, wwhich you have profaned among the nations to which you came.

God seems well aware of Israel's short comings.

Isaiah 48:11
11 pFor my own sake, for my own sake, I do it,

for how should my name1 be profaned?

qMy glory I will not give to another.


Again by another prophet

Daniel 9:18–19
18 rO my God, incline your ear and hear. Open your eyes and see sour desolations, and tthe city that is called by your name. For we do not present our pleas before you because of our righteousness, but because of your great mercy. 19 O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive. O Lord, pay attention and act. uDelay not, vfor your own sake, O my God, because tyour city and wyour people are called by your name.”


Even Daniel knew the way to approach God.
Same with Moses

So to say because of Israel's sins or non repentance or not believing in Jesus stops God from moving is so not true.
Our God has a plan...for he is the alpha and omega. King of Kings...Lord of Lords.....and able to exceed all our expectations.
 
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