Israel.
- Thread starter Gideon300
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
This pertains to natural Israel, not spirtual Israel. Spiritual Israel is the holy nation that will get restored to the land at Christ's return. Natural Israel forfeited the blessing below when it broke the covenant right after God spoke these words to them.
Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth [is] mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These [are] the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. Exodus 19:5-6
That blessing was deferred until God's holy nation was born on the day of Pentecost when the holy spirit was poured out on Israel/Judah.But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 1 Peter 2:9
Again this doesn’t say anything about Israel being restored on this earth . It’s a segment of apacolypse. What I’ve asked for several times os a price of the doctrine not a flash of apacolypse that people think is literal
The apocalypse is the destruction inflicted upon the armies of the world that have gathered against Christ and his holy nation. So logically that means Christ and his holy nation are on earth in the land of Israel.
naw your quoting from the old covenant conditions but not showing the context
“Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: and ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.”
Exodus 19:5-6 KJV
That’s if they obeyed his covenant they didint they broke it and the curses wrotten in it came. I’ve noticed it’s hard for some to acknowledge Israel’s covenwnt but they often pluck out a condition and present it as unconditional promise
The promises of god and people of god are in Christ they come from all nations and peoples and they are promised a new world where righteousness reigns and he walks among them after this world ends
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
Revelation 21:1-2 KJV
That’s the “wedding day “
Why don't you explain why what I stated is incorrect instead of just saying it's wrong?
yeah I’m talking about apocalypse regarding the literature in the Bible. But you’re free to believe what you want to it’s alright with me I don’t have a red to convince you to agree I think the scriptures stand for themselves . They just say what they say
That's a different Greek word that means soil, or dirt, or earth. So there's no specific locality implied in it as there is with the Hebrew word eretz.
I haven’t said anything about you being wrong and because it’s not my place or job to prove you wrong . I had stated my case in the thread and here you came to “ prove me wrong lol
i have no issue with whatever you want to believe . The truth is the scriptures should show you you might not have it right . But it’s not my place or interest to “ prove you wrong “
i just do the same thing most do here state my opinion and case In discussions and show scripture as to why it’s my position .
Often that part gets ignored in order to argue with the other person . I’m not interested in that . Or trying to make you believe what I do . I’ve presented alot of scripture as to why I believe what I do and haven’t ever seen New Testament scripture actually teaching what some here seem to believe as fact .
and interest intrying to show anyone you are wrong . That’s irrelevant to me . there’s no ( that I’ve ever seen ) doctrine in the nt to say what you are saying that just my position though revelation isn’t literal doctrine we’ll have to disagree there I believe it’s apocalypse ( literature I mean )
Yeah translations probably the issue even though me can read what it’s saying about the destruction of all creation lol ….
The millennium (also known as the millennial kingdom) is the 1,000-year reign of Jesus after the tribulation and before the Great White Throne Judgment of the wicked. During the millennium, Jesus will reign as king over Israel and all the nations of the world (Isaiah 2:4; 42:1). The world will live in peace (Isaiah 11:6–9; 32:18), Satan will be bound (Revelation 20:1–3), and, at the beginning, everyone will worship God (Isaiah 2:2–3). The purpose of the 1,000-year reign is to fulfill various promises God made to the world. Some of these promises, called covenants, were given specifically to Israel. Others were given to Jesus, the nations of the world, and creation. Jesus’ 1,000-year reign will be a time of promises kept.
The Palestinian Covenant, also called the Land Covenant (Deuteronomy 30:1-10)
God has already fulfilled the personal aspects of the Abrahamic Covenant; Abraham did go to the Promised Land, he did have many descendants, and he is the forefather of many nations. Several hundred years after Abraham, Joshua led the Israelites to claim ownership of the Promised Land. But Israel has never possessed the specific boundaries that God promised in Genesis 15:18–20 and Numbers 34:1-12. Not even Solomon ruled over this particular area (1 Kings 4:21–24). Although he did reign from the River of Egypt to the Euphrates, he did not hold the area from Mount Hor to Hazarenan (Numbers 34:7–9)—into present-day Lebanon and Syria. In addition, the covenant God made with Abraham was that he and his descendants would have the land forever (Genesis 13:15; 17:8; Ezekiel 16:60). The current Israeli state may be a step in this direction, but they still do not possess the boundaries God laid out.
The Davidic Covenant (2 Samuel 7)
God’s covenant with David was that his line would never die out and that David’s heir would sit on the throne of Israel forever (2 Samuel 7:16). Biblical scholars agree that Jesus is the fulfillment of this covenant—one of the reasons His genealogy is given for both His adoptive father (Matthew 1:1–17) and His mother (Luke 3:23–38). The Jews understood this when they laid down palm branches and their cloaks as Jesus rode into Jerusalem (Matthew 21:1–17). They expected Him to be a military/political leader that would liberate them from the Romans and make Israel a great nation again. But they didn’t understand the nature of Jesus’ work at the time was for the New Covenant, not the Davidic Covenant. The 1,000-year reign will be the beginning of Jesus’ reign over Israel and the earth (Revelation 20:4, 6).
The New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34)
The work of the New Covenant—Jesus’ death and resurrection to reconcile hearts to God—has been accomplished. But we have not yet seen the complete fulfillment. Jeremiah 31:33 says, “But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.” Ezekiel 36:28 gives more specifics: “You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.” Isaiah 59:20–21 explains that this covenant is possible because of the Redeemer, and the reconciliation He provides will last forever. This covenant does not mean that every Jew will be saved. But it does mean that Israel as a nation will worship their Messiah. The Old Testament prophets who spoke of this covenant, including Isaiah, Jeremiah, Hosea, and Ezekiel, all wrote that it will be fulfilled in the future. From their time on, Israel has yet to be an independent nation that worshiped its Messiah (Romans 9—11). They will be in the 1,000-year reign of Christ.
Other Promises
Those are the covenants God made with Israel that are to be fulfilled in Jesus’ 1,000-year reign, but the Bible lists other promises that will be fulfilled, too. God promised Jesus He will make His enemies a footstool, and that Jesus’ followers will worship Him freely (Psalm 110). God promised the nations of the world that they would live in peace with Jesus as their ruler (Daniel 7:11–14). And He promised creation that the curse would be lifted (Romans 8:18–23), animals and the earth would be restored to peace and prosperity (Isaiah 11:6–9; 32:13–15), and people would be freed from disease (Ezekiel 34:16). These, too, will be fulfilled during the 1,000-year reign.
The main purpose of Jesus’ 1,000-year reign is to fulfill the prophecies given to Israel and the promises made to Jesus, the nations, and the whole earth. God’s covenants were voluntary and one-sided. He promised He would bless Israel and restore the world in specific ways, and He will.
This is a baseless claim IMO. It certainly doesn't come from the bible. Solomons' kingdom was so vast it's unlikely he didn't rule over this area
You said you agree to disagree regarding who Israel is when Pilgrimshope posted plenty of scripture to support his opinion.What's yours regarding said verses.Are all the posted verses relevant to the topic of who Israel is?
yeah thats all I’m looking for I understand the position revelation 20 is literal and it’s been presented pretty well , I dont see it as literal like the rest of the book . I believe it’s a segment of johns apocalypse that shows the first resurrection as it does elsewhere in the book of Israel’s ot saints and firstfruits and then shows many of the events repetetively shown in the book of “revelation” or “ apokálypsis”
Which means “to unveil “ or “to uncover “ or even “ to reveal “
“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:”
Revelation 1:1 KJV
Considering the armies surrounded Jerusalem around this same time John was exiled on Patmos , and Jerusalem was raised to the ground and burned by Romes seige and the temple was completely destroyed to the stone
maybe people are misinterpreting this
“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”
Revelation 20:4-6 KJV
If we remember things we’ve already read to this point in revelation
“And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: and they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.”
Revelation 14:1-5 KJV
“And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.”
Revelation 7:4
It’s no mistake tbat the book written to the Hebrews speaks of the heavenly Jerusalem that is thier promised land Mount sion with the lord
“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
…..whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:”
Hebrews 12:22-24, 26-28 KJV
Heaven and earth will pass away but his kingdom will remain forever at the end there the writer is literally saying all that’s been created is going to be removed so that the things he’s promised and will last may remain even the heaven and earth .
And his promise will remain
“Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
2 Peter 3:13 KJV
gotta have faith
“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth:
and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
Isaiah 65:17 KJV
“For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.”( speaking to Israel’s children about thoer true eternal inheritance )
Isaiah 66:15-16, 22 KJV
That’s the whole reason Peters writing this in an epistle
“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, ( the new creation he’s been promising for ages ) look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
2 Peter 3:7, 10, 13 KJV
It’s sometimes as simple as hearing and believing but also as difficult as hearing and believing
Yes, I believe that, but that does not happen until the 1000 year earthly reign of Christ is complete. When he has subdued all earthly rebellion he will turn the kingdom over to the father. Then the new Jerusalem will descend from heaven and a new heavens and earth will be created.
To posit that a new heavens and earth happens when he returns at the resurrection requires ignoring numerous things in scripture. For example, death will not have been defeated when the lord returns because it is written that a child will be 100 years old during his reign, which indicates that life spans will greatly increase as they were at the beginning of the world.
Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28
We all do..... but as I said before the old must be fulfilled on earth before the new is is made. Maybe its me but you seem to jump the gun on this.
A new heaven and earth after the prophecies are fulfilled simple as that. New heaven and earth after the great white throne judgements.
As far as Abraham's seed and the promise to be gathered back into the land of their fathers we are also grafted into that gathering. But to the jew first then the Gentiles. Time of the Gentiles end....what does that mean to you?
The first shall be last and the last first.
To tell you the truth when this happens no one ...no jew or gentile will know there place when Jesus comes back. Im sure you can answer why this is. The promises made to Christ from the father and to Israel have to be fulfilled.
And no there is no sacrifice offerings or anything of the sort also no levite priest hood. It's not needed Jesus is back.
This cannot possibly happen in a new heavens and earth which occur after death is destroyed. So it has to be during the millennium
There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner [being] an hundred years old shall be accursed. Isaiah 65:20
- Status