Israel Declares War

[Smoke]

You should learn some history before commenting on this issue.

It's because I have studied history that I disagree with you.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

We are disagreeing on how TO get rid of them.

It's a discussion for a forum, but not reality. The reality is that terrorists attacked innocent civilian families in their beds. They butchered women and children, they raped and did horrific things. They attacked murdered people at a music concert for peace who literally ran for their lives. This constitutes war. Innocent people die in war. Israel has done more to mitigate civilian loses that any other country has or would. They have sent fliers, they have given knock notices, they have told the civilians to leave. Anything, ANYTHING that happens to civilians after all of that, that blood is on Hamas's hands and the Arab countries refusing to help. Israel did not ask for, nor do they want war. They have given vital land to make peace with neighbors and have gotten peace. Hamas, and authorities that be there have been offered land, more than once. They have not lifted their finger to make peace. They wanted war, now they have it. It's utterly wrong to tell Israel that they have to tolerate this and live in fear. They didn't start it, they have a right to finish it. That is war.

 

[Cameron143]

If your logic states that fewer people killed is always better no matter what, would you see it as morally sound for all 8 billion non-Jews around the world to kill the 16.1 million Jews on earth IF it meant saving more than 16.1 million lives would be preserved long term (future generations)?

Just curious, when we play with numbers to make a moral case, is consideration taken for the future generations and those future generations etc... that the original 10,000 people would have had? If so, that variable really complicates things as Gaza has an incredibly high birth rate in comparison to Israel.

My logic would hold. And if Israel's stated goal was to eliminate all Arabs you would have an argument. As it stands, you aren't arguing from an equal moral condition. Your situation doesn't exist and doesn't necessarily equate. My answer is for what actually exists now. All situations are different and should be considered individually.

 

[Smoke]

My logic would hold. And if Israel's stated goal was to eliminate all Arabs you would have an argument. As it stands, you aren't arguing from an equal moral condition. Your situation doesn't exist and doesn't necessarily equate. My answer is for what actually exists now. All situations are different and should be considered individually.

That was the long version to say "Nevermind, it's not 'always more moral to preserve more, not less life.'" So in essence, it's a silly question to ask which is more moral saving 10,000 lives or 100,000. Got it. As much as we like things to be put in a dichotomy, we can agree it's not always possible.

 

[Ted01]

Media Photographers presence at Oct 7th attack sites? <-- Link

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

In the scripture, it is written that if someone invades your home at night, and you strike the man, and he dies, it is not murder. But suppose you wait until the dawn, and then go around to that man's house, and you slay not only him, but his entire family. Or worse, you let the man live, but slay his entire family. That is murder, and nothing to do with self defense. This is the situation in Israel.
.

No, this is not the position with Israel. smh The reason we can't get anywhere in this discussion is either people are believing the lies they telling themselves, or they're just lying. I can't figure which with some people. But your comment is a lie. What Israel is doing is self defense. And they is why Biden, as much as he wants to run from the subject, has to stay on Israels side. Because he knows they have a right to defend their homeland. You're way off the reservation on this subject Red X Mo. Surely you understand a person has a right to defend their people and their homeland. Every country does it, why is Israel wrong?

 

[Cameron143]

That was the long version to say "Nevermind, it's not 'always more moral to preserve more, not less life.'" So in essence, it's a silly question to ask which is more moral saving 10,000 lives or 100,000. Got it. As much as we like things to be put in a dichotomy, we can agree it's not always possible.

No. My initial statement is in the affirmative. Your emotionalism has you looking for contradictions where none exist. I did qualify my answer to only include the same existing conditions. I did so to avoid a response such as the one you have given.
Take a break. Relax. Breathe in, breathe out. You are taking years off your life.

 

[Smoke]

Media Photographers presence at Oct 7th attack sites? <-- Link

So major "news" agencies (including CC's new favorite CNN) are suspected of knowing of the attack prior to Oct 7th and they were all hanging out waiting for carnage to unfold. The IDF and security teams somehow missed the breach at the fence and the parasailers. Then Israel also allows CNN exclusive access to take pictures and record inside Gaza but everything needs to be reviewed by the IDF. It also took 6-7 hours for the IDF to respond to the Oct 7th attack. Any they wonder why people are "conspiracists"... If you ask questions and want answers, you're labeled a "conspiracist"...

 

[Smoke]

No. My initial statement is in the affirmative. Your emotionalism has you looking for contradictions where none exist. I did qualify my answer to only include the same existing conditions. I did so to avoid a response such as the one you have given.
Take a break. Relax. Breathe in, breathe out. You are taking years off your life.

Putting in qualifiers and then saying "it's always more moral.." means it's true even if there aren't qualifiers. In any event, it's clear who is projecting about emotionalism by the personal responses. I didn't mean to trigger you as I was simply just disagreeing with using numbers to make a moral argument.

 

[Cameron143]

Putting in qualifiers and then saying "it's always more moral.." means it's true even if there aren't qualifiers. In any event, it's clear who is projecting about emotionalism by the personal responses. I didn't mean to trigger you as I was simply just disagreeing with using numbers to make a moral argument.

The qualifier is under the same conditions. Which is what I intended originally and didn't state. That's my mistake. I corrected it. But by definition, moral equivalencies must be equivalent. The addition was for your benefit. I understood equivalencies aleeady.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

The point is that Israel is not innocent.

Stunning. Families butchered, women raped, woman and children taken hostage. And still the Jews are to the ones to blame.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Been a while since I read his work, amazing how they lay it all out.
You mean Zionism is not from God?
Thank you, I need to refresh my memory, reread his work, along with the other fellow whose name escapes me, lol.

Yes, by all means lets follow what Albert Pike, a Confederate and freemason, had to say and not the Bible. lol

 

[Smoke]

Israeli Arabs arrested over Gaza social media posts

''The post that attracted police attention was an image of the Palestinian flag with the Arabic motto: "There is no victor but God."
Ms Baker says the singer, who is well known across the Arab world for her songs about Palestinian heritage, was expressing a religious sentiment. Israeli authorities interpreted the singer's post as a call to arms for Palestinians.''

''Anyone inciting against the State of Israel, its government symbols, elected officials, military personnel and police, should be aware that the Israel Police will respond firmly and without leniency," said Israel's Police Commissioner, Yaakov Shabtai, at a meeting with senior leaders this week. ''

An example of Israel being a shining city upon a hill whose beacon of light expresses true democracy in the Middle East.

 

[HeIsHere]

This is actually not true. There have been many ceasefires and negotiations. The killing has never stopped. You are trading short term lower levels of death for long term never ceasing death. There is no reality where none die.

Maybe cause the U.N. aka the USA has failed in its duty to be impartial and step up and step in and negotiate peace, where each side is given its human rights and right to self determination, but then that might interfere with the fake eschatology and the continual war mongering.

 

[Cameron143]

Maybe cause the U.N. aka the USA has failed in its duty to be impartial and step up and step in and negotiate peace, where each side is given its human rights and right to self determination, but then that might interfere with the fake eschatology and the continual war mongering.

I understand there is plenty of blame to go around. That's for others to sort out. I'm only concerned to put an end to the needless and wanton death. This will never happen while Hamas or any other group bent on Israel's destruction is allowed in the area. Anything short of this guarantees more of the same.

 

[ZNP]

PROPHECY ALERT!!! GOD IS GATHERING HIS PEOPLE BACK TO ISRAEL!!!

 

[cv5]

the fake eschatology

Fake eschatology? Really.......
Isaiah 14:1-3 is fake eschatology?
How about Ezekiel 16:60-63?
Isaiah 11:11-16?
Isaiah 60:1-22?

Those are but a few passages from recent posts. I could back up the truck and add 100 (actually hundreds) more very very easily.

So let me ask you:
Do you truly believe that these passages are authentically and genuinely written by the Spirit of God with His unwavering intent to fulfill them?

Yes or No.

 

[HeIsHere]

I understand there is plenty of blame to go around. That's for others to sort out. I'm only concerned to put an end to the needless and wanton death. This will never happen while Hamas or any other group bent on Israel's destruction is allowed in the area. Anything short of this guarantees more of the same.

How about Israel's being set on ethnic cleansing and committing genocide does that have any negative impact?

Again, it is not about blame, it is about understanding the legitimate grievances of the the refugees and the inhabitants of the land who wanted a two state solution, with the right of self-determination, but was shut down each time by Netnahooo

 

[HeIsHere]

Fake eschatology? Really.......
Isaiah 14:1-3 is fake eschatology?
How about Ezekiel 16:60-63?
Isaiah 11:11-16?
Isaiah 60:1-22?

Those are but a few passages from recent posts. I could back up the truck and add 100 (actually hundreds) more very very easily.

So let me ask you:
Do you truly believe that these passages are authentically and genuinely written by the Spirit of God with His unwavering intent to fulfill them?

Yes or No.

They have been written by God and they have been fulfilled, but I reserve the right to look them up because I have not done that yet.

 

[HeIsHere]

Christians look like fools if they overlook these passages. And of course the rapture as well. If you are able to offer Biblically supported countervailing arguments.....have at it. And good luck.

Isa 14:1 - For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

Isa 14:2 - And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

Isa 14:3 - And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve

If I ever find the time I may actually wrote a post showing the fulfillment, but then I tell my self why should I embark on a fool's errand.

I think even the most versed person in non-futurist doctrine would never convince you, and there are many.

For good analysis search for a post by @Angela53510 on the rapture, I think she deals with the rapture issue well.