Israel Declares War

[HeIsHere]

Well, we've been over this before.

Israel will continue to target legitimate, military, Hamas targets... as prescribed by International Law.
Israel has long since warned civilians in the Gaza Strip to leave the areas that they are targeting... and continue to give advanced warnings. Also, the citizens have been aware of the lawless practices (war crimes) of Hamas, They know that they are both in harm's way as well the risks that they take, by choice, when they stay put.

I also don't think that, in general terms, people are attacking peaceful demonstrators (demonstrators for cease-fire)... I have heard reports that demonstrations that were not peaceful and openly "pro Hamas" and "anti Israel" did experience "push back" by folks on the other side of issue.

While I hate to use this word because it sounds pretentious, have you ever considered that you tend to use "histrionics" in your presentation?

You address this issue as though the inhabitants of Gaza are on equal ground.

The lens should be like the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto and the uprising in the ghetto against the Germans.

Seems like the people of Palestine (Arabs who were both Christian and Muslim) are expected to be in submission as they were terrorized out of their homes in 1948.

 

[Moses_Young]

War crimes are being committed (by both sides), therefore Hamas must be allowed to survive and thrive.

Sorry.....you lost me there.

In the scripture, it is written that if someone invades your home at night, and you strike the man, and he dies, it is not murder. But suppose you wait until the dawn, and then go around to that man's house, and you slay not only him, but his entire family. Or worse, you let the man live, but slay his entire family. That is murder, and nothing to do with self defense. This is the situation in Israel.

It has nothing to do with letting Hamas survive and thrive. It has everything to do with corrupt leadership either allowing Hamas (military stand-down?), or possibly supporting it.

 

[ZNP]

Amos 1:6 Thus saith the Lord; For three transgressions of Gaza, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they carried away captive the whole captivity, to deliver them up to Edom:

Edom would refer to Jordan. October 7, 2023 was a surprise terrorist attack, but prior to that 2022 was a very deadly year in this conflict between Israel and Hamas, in 2021 there was major clash at the al-Aqsa Mosque. In 2008 there were 800 rockets attacking Israel from Gaza. Hundreds of civilians are killed in both Israel and Gaza. In 2006 Hamas kidnaps an Israeli soldier and is held for six years.

7 But I will send a fire on the wall of Gaza, which shall devour the palaces thereof:

Anyone watching this war since October 7th has seen fire sent from Israel that is devouring the best high rises in Gaza.

8 And I will cut off the inhabitant from Ashdod,

Then we saw the invasion which cut Gaza in half, separating Gaza city in the North from the inhabitants of Ashdod.

and him that holdeth the sceptre from Ashkelon, and I will turn mine hand against Ekron: and the remnant of the Philistines shall perish, saith the Lord God.

Right now you have about 2 million Palestinians in Gaza and 5 million are elsewhere. So they are the "remnant". Some are fleeing, others are perishing. Those that stay and fight will perish.

 

[HeIsHere]

I don't think that it's the mindset of Hamas, et. al, that civilians will shield them from any physical attack. Rather, it's more of a psychological maneuver that hopes to elicit reactions not unlike your own... an outcry from peoples of other nations that all attacks should cease because of the possibility of civilian casualties.

So they are supposed to suffer in silence for 75+ years.
Have the Jews not worked ever so hard to garner compassion/sympathy for what they have experienced?

And of course the attacks should cease! This is genocide, these are children that are being killed, over 4000+

People who argue this is the cost of war are woefully uninformed of the history and moreover have lost there moral bearings.

 

[Moses_Young]

People who argue this is the cost of war are woefully uninformed of the history and moreover have lost there moral bearings.

This speak of people losing their moral bearings reminds me of the Albert Pike letter from 1871.

"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the 'agentur' of the 'Illuminati' between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion. We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."

 

[HeIsHere]

I will be honest and say I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. I really do try to understand people's points though. I'm not sure who disagrees Palestinian civilians are being used as human shields. It's clear that they are but it doesn't deter or change anything. Israel will still bomb Gaza regardless of the amount of civilians they kill in their pursuit of "targeting" Hamas.

I also don't know if you're referring to me as the "expert" or someone else. I just have a belief/opinion. I am prone to error and not afraid to admit as much. I'm no expert.

You are very sharp, you see through this situation more clearly and have escaped the post WW II propaganda.

 

[Moses_Young]

You are very sharp, you see through this situation more clearly and have escaped the post WW II propaganda.

Gotta second this! Smoke is very sharp, and is seeing through the propaganda that most of the others have just swallowed hook-line-and-sinker, like gullible catfish.

 

[HeIsHere]

This speak of people losing their moral bearings reminds me of the Albert Pike letter from 1871.

"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the 'agentur' of the 'Illuminati' between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion. We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."

Albert Pike, something how 'they' (he and his ilk) knew the effect long term of their machinations.

And even Christians are deceived that the inhabitants of Israel are people whose lives matter more than the lives of others.

Yes, many Christians look like fools they are filled with hate really, as they look forward to the destruction of people but their rapture which is totally non-biblical.

 

[HeIsHere]

Gotta second this! Smoke is very sharp, and is seeing through the propaganda that most of the others have just swallowed hook-line-and-sinker, like gullible catfish.

You see as well!!
It takes courage to dive into the web of lies and see it for what it is.
Most people cannot leave their comfort zone, sadly that comfort zone will come back to bite.

 

[Ted01]

Do you think they need to use 2,000 lb bombs?
The innocent lives are not in proportional to the number of Hamas being killed.

So it is quite obvious that the IDF is not really all that concerned about precision, they have been wanting to rid Gaza for a long time.

Did you know that it was Israel that broke the 2008 cease fire?

I guess that I don't see things the same way.
Firstly, 2000lb bombs are not the only ordinance that the IDF has been using... so why do you say this? Is it to incite and be provocative?
Also, the IDF isn't necessarily targeting Hamas militants (with bombing missions) so much as they are targeting military assets, as most military campaigns do.
And they are concerned with precision, as they use guide munitions, for the most part, unlike all the rocketry in the Hamas arsenal. Also, they haven't really hit any hospitals, like Hamas did awhile back.

You may believe that Israel broke the 2008 cease-fire, but another fact is that Hamas had been firing rockets into Israel since 2005, and never ceased to do so, even into 2008.

 

[Needevidence]

The true reason is finally out as to why all this is really happening.

GAS - off the Caza coast $250 billion worth of Gas and Israel (while the genocide is going on) awarded contract on 29 October. BP and Egypt being part of the exploration deal. UK prime minister Rishi Sunak's super rich wife, her father owns 'Infosys' who have been awarded a $1.5 billion contract with BP recently. Infosys – director Israeli intelligence veteran Uri Levine (ex-IDF) and they also provides Tech Israel uses for surveillance of Palestinians. Google and you will see various places mention it.

No wonder he doesn’t want a ceasefire and Israel to occupy North Gaza.

The rich are all connected and profit in wars, Arms, rebuilding structure etc...

 

[Ted01]

You address this issue as though the inhabitants of Gaza are on equal ground.

The lens should be like the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto and the uprising in the ghetto against the Germans.

Seems like the people of Palestine (Arabs who were both Christian and Muslim) are expected to be in submission as they were terrorized out of their homes in 1948.

Now, I think this is remarkably naive.

I don't think it matters about "equal ground"... when somebody attacks you, regardless of their weaponry and competency, an attack back, with all force necessary, should be expected without question.

 

[Ted01]

So they are supposed to suffer in silence for 75+ years.
Have the Jews not worked ever so hard to garner compassion/sympathy for what they have experienced?

And of course the attacks should cease! This is genocide, these are children that are being killed, over 4000+

People who argue this is the cost of war are woefully uninformed of the history and moreover have lost there moral bearings.

You might want to conflate the present matter at hand with all the things previous, but that's silly, IMHO.

With this kind of mindset, everybody, in every nation should give up the land that they currently occupy and immigrate back to the lands of their ancestors. But wait!!! If we do that, we'd be displacing the people already there... so, maybe we should all just lay down and die in order to not disenfranchise others!??

This is so sophomoric.

 

[HeIsHere]

You may believe that Israel broke the 2008 cease-fire,

This is a fact and the Jews broke the ceasefire.

Also, they haven't really hit any hospitals, like Hamas did awhile back.

They have hit schools, hospitals and a refugee camp to kill supposedly one Hamas asset, which even that has yet to be proven.
They bombed children playing othe beach
They bombed protestors in 2014 who were only protesting, innocent civilians.

And what has Israel been doing since before 2005. Israel does not have clean hands, people seem to have a hard time admitting that, I can admit that Hamas acted as a terror group in 2005, but you know there is always a reason for actions and reactions.

Just going on a tangent, for example 9/11 was not an isolated incident, it did not happen in a vacuum.

It is best to really understand the historical Geo-political roots of every conflict, one will find western Imperialism is much to blame which above and beyond what it needed to do to protect itself.

 

[HeIsHere]

Now, I think this is remarkably naive.

I don't think it matters about "equal ground"... when somebody attacks you, regardless of their weaponry and competency, an attack back, with all force necessary, should be expected without question.

So then Hamas can attack back, the PLO can attack back, the Jews in the ghetto can attack back against an oppressor?

 

[Moses_Young]

So then Hamas can attack back, the PLO can attack back, the Jews in the ghetto can attack back against an oppressor?

Exactly this. What these people who defend warcrimes are not grasping is that they are also justifying terrorism. If might makes right, terrorism is a legitimate weapon of warfare. But they just can't understand it.

 

[HeIsHere]

You might want to conflate the present matter at hand with all the things previous, but that's silly, IMHO.

With this kind of mindset, everybody, in every nation should give up the land that they currently occupy and immigrate back to the lands of their ancestors. But wait!!! If we do that, we'd be displacing the people already there... so, maybe we should all just lay down and die in order to not disenfranchise others!??

This is so sophomoric.

I never stated anything like what you have written. The point is that Israel is not innocent.

 

[HeIsHere]

Exactly this. What these people who defend warcrimes are not grasping is that they are also justifying terrorism. If might makes right, terrorism is a legitimate weapon of warfare. But they just can't understand it.

Thank you.
I find it interesting how it is the same arguments regurgitaed over and over, if people would actually see that they are not looking at the whole picture they may drop the false narrative.

 

[HeIsHere]

This speak of people losing their moral bearings reminds me of the Albert Pike letter from 1871.

"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the 'agentur' of the 'Illuminati' between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion. We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."

Been a while since I read his work, amazing how they lay it all out.
You mean Zionism is not from God?
Thank you, I need to refresh my memory, reread his work, along with the other fellow whose name escapes me, lol.

 

[Ted01]

So then Hamas can attack back, the PLO can attack back, the Jews in the ghetto can attack back against an oppressor?

Absolutely!!
Anybody with a mindset of war or oppression can fight/fight back... that's what war is about.
So the Palestinians feel oppressed and fought or fought back... and Israel is in the process of fighting back themselves.

But now, some people want to say that what Israel is doing isn't "right"!?
Remarkable, that you would say that Hamas did the right thing, but Israel is doing the wrong thing.