Israel Declares War

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Ted01 said:
While I hate to use this word because it sounds pretentious, have you ever considered that you tend to use "histrionics" in your presentation?
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really? it's the ONLY reason i'd use the word histrionics. :D

great word, btw!
 
Moses_Young said:
All I can say is that it's ironic that many of those who were so opposed to the vaxx mandates and unwanted (and useless and evil) government interventions are all of a sudden so supportive of the same type of (useless and evil) government interventions on those who don't want it in Israel/Palestine.

If there's a virus - good - but why should people give up their freedoms because of something the government believes in? Exactly the same deal with Hamas. If the government (state of Israel) all of a sudden want to deal with terrorists, fine, but if they kill innocent civilians as they have, it's exactly the same war crime and crimes against humanity as occurred during the covid lockdowns and vaxx mandates. The only legitimate way to deal with criminals is targeting only the criminals. Anything else makes one as bad as the criminals one is allegedly dealing with, and actually justifies many of the claims made by the first bunch of criminals.
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You bring up morality. I want to ask you a question about morality. But I want you to know before I do that as I make an argument for a position, I'm merely asking the questions I do not to impugn your position or beliefs, but merely as a way to help you understand another perspective. I actually understand your position and why you hold it. And I want you to understand my position and why I believe as I do. So I'm not asking you got you questions, but asking questions in a manner to help you understand my reasoning.
Is it more moral to allow 10,000 people to die or 100,000?
 
Ted01 said:
Absolutely!!
Anybody with a mindset of war or oppression can fight/fight back... that's what war is about.
So the Palestinians feel oppressed and fought or fought back... and Israel is in the process of fighting back themselves.

But now, some people want to say that what Israel is doing isn't "right"!?
Remarkable, that you would say that Hamas did the right thing, but Israel is doing the wrong thing.
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There are three distinct areas of International Law that decide if a country is committing war crimes.
So far it is not looking good for Israel which has over reacted.
Numbers do not lie.
 
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HeIsHere said:
This is a fact and the Jews broke the ceasefire.



They have hit schools, hospitals and a refugee camp to kill supposedly one Hamas asset, which even that has yet to be proven.
They bombed children playing othe beach
They bombed protestors in 2014 who were only protesting, innocent civilians.

And what has Israel been doing since before 2005. Israel does not have clean hands, people seem to have a hard time admitting that, I can admit that Hamas acted as a terror group in 2005, but you know there is always a reason for actions and reactions.

Just going on a tangent, for example 9/11 was not an isolated incident, it did not happen in a vacuum.

It is best to really understand the historical Geo-political roots of every conflict, one will find western Imperialism is much to blame which above and beyond what it needed to do to protect itself.
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You keep going back to what happened Before... I think that's your problem. That's why I wrote the post the you red X'd. If we keep talking about what happened Before, we end up with Cain and Abel... that's where it all started, isn't it? Every dispute and every war... and it just continues.
 
Cameron143 said:
You bring up morality. I want to ask you a question about morality. But I want you to know before I do that as I make an argument for a position, I'm merely asking the questions I do not to impugn your position or beliefs, but merely as a way to help you understand another perspective. I actually understand your position and why you hold it. And I want you to understand my position and why I believe as I do. So I'm not asking you got you questions, but asking questions in a manner to help you understand my reasoning.
Is it more moral to allow 10,000 people to die or 100,000?
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It depends on the circumstances. I'm not sure morality is about numbers. For example, it would be immoral to kill 10,000 righteous people, but it might be moral to execute 100,000 war criminals and terrorists.
 
Ted01 said:
You keep going back to what happened Before... I think that's your problem. That's why I wrote the post the you red X'd. If we keep talking about what happened Before, we end up with Cain and Abel... that's where it all started, isn't it? Every dispute and every war... and it just continues.
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The starting point is crucial, if you start with October 7 then that produces a skewed view.

That is the way analysis works, start at the beginning of this conflict and no it does not involve Cain and Abel. lol
 
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HeIsHere said:
The starting point is crucial, if you start with October 7 then that produces a skewed view.

That is the way analysis works, start at the beginning of this conflict and no it does not involve Cain and Abel. lol
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It would be like starting the Cain and Abel story without mentioning Cain's rejected offering, and Abel's accepted offering.
 
HeIsHere said:
The starting point is crucial, if you start with October 7 then that produces a skewed view.

That is the way analysis works, start at the beginning of this conflict and no it does not involve Cain and Abel. lol
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Okay... the starting point is crucial.
So, what do we do about Cain? Doesn't justice demand that he pays for his murder of Able... let's start there since you say that beginnings are crucial.
 
Ted01 said:
Okay... the starting point is crucial.
So, what do we do about Cain? Doesn't justice demand that he pays for his murder of Able... let's start there since you say that beginnings are crucial.
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Lol
 
HeIsHere said:
start at the beginning of this conflict and no it does not involve Cain and Abel. lol
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Alright... so the beginning of this conflict would be the attack of Hamas where they slaughtered about 1,400 people, right?
 
Moses_Young said:
It depends on the circumstances. I'm not sure morality is about numbers. For example, it would be immoral to kill 10,000 righteous people, but it might be moral to execute 100,000 war criminals and terrorists.
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A ceasefire, negotiations could stop more death.

Seems obvious to me, but hubris tends to be the way of the world and Israel is not interested, they are mowing the lawn that is their dogma.

They have open (high ranking officials) about ethnic cleansing, it is a slow process for them they know the world is watching.
 
Ted01 said:
Alright... so the beginning of this conflict would be the attack of Hamas where they slaughtered about 1,400 people, right?
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It appears Hamas overrun a checkpoint and killed soldiers - and wanted to kidnap people so they can exchange thousands held by Israel. The civilians you see running in the pictures were running from Israeli fire not Hamas - https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/27/israels-military-shelled-burning-tanks-helicopters/

Look like IDF killed most of the civilians.

Seems like a good reason to kill everyone in Gaza even those fleeing South as advised - so they can take control of the border with Egypt and get the GAS.

Happy days!
 
Ted01 said:
Alright... so the beginning of this conflict would be the attack of Hamas where they slaughtered about 1,400 people, right?
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No response to this @HeIsHere ??

You said the beginning of this conflict... let's stay with that as the only topic... for now.
 
HeIsHere said:
Yes, many Christians look like fools they are filled with hate really, as they look forward to the destruction of people but their rapture which is totally non-biblical.
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Christians look like fools if they overlook these passages. And of course the rapture as well. If you are able to offer Biblically supported countervailing arguments.....have at it. And good luck.

Isa 14:1 - For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

Isa 14:2 - And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

Isa 14:3 - And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve
 
Moses_Young said:
It depends on the circumstances. I'm not sure morality is about numbers. For example, it would be immoral to kill 10,000 righteous people, but it might be moral to execute 100,000 war criminals and terrorists.
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I appreciate your answer. So I'll be more specific this time. Because Hamas uses human shields and because they will never stop killing Jews, there is no situation where no one dies. So the only question is will there be more or less loss of life. Given this reality, is it more moral to allow 10,000 deaths or 100,000?
 
HeIsHere said:
A ceasefire, negotiations could stop more death.

Seems obvious to me, but hubris tends to be the way of the world and Israel is not interested, they are mowing the lawn that is their dogma.

They have open (high ranking officials) about ethnic cleansing, it is a slow process for them they know the world is watching.
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This is actually not true. There have been many ceasefires and negotiations. The killing has never stopped. You are trading short term lower levels of death for long term never ceasing death. There is no reality where none die.
 
Cameron143 said:
I appreciate your answer. So I'll be more specific this time. Because Hamas uses human shields and because they will never stop killing Jews, there is no situation where no one dies. So the only question is will there be more or less loss of life. Given this reality, is it more moral to allow 10,000 deaths or 100,000?
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I still think it depends on the situation, and I still am not sure it's about morality. Morality is about right and wrong. Deciding number of deaths is a different sort of decision. Obviously, fewer deaths are preferable, but the ends doesn't justify the means. So if it's 10,000 deaths of civilians, or 100,000 deaths of soldiers, I would likely go with the 100,000 deaths of soldiers, I guess. (As long as the dead soldiers are fighting for the other side!)
 
Cameron143 said:
I appreciate your answer. So I'll be more specific this time. Because Hamas uses human shields and because they will never stop killing Jews, there is no situation where no one dies. So the only question is will there be more or less loss of life. Given this reality, is it more moral to allow 10,000 deaths or 100,000?
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How does Israel make all of their fake war videos? - Here is an example of how it's done.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/9izDUbG6QWmu/
 
Moses_Young said:
I still think it depends on the situation, and I still am not sure it's about morality. Morality is about right and wrong. Deciding number of deaths is a different sort of decision. Obviously, fewer deaths are preferable, but the ends doesn't justify the means. So if it's 10,000 deaths of civilians, or 100,000 deaths of soldiers, I would likely go with the 100,000 deaths of soldiers, I guess. (As long as the dead soldiers are fighting for the other side!)
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The means are dictated by Hamas. And it is always more moral to preserve more, not less life. If the reality is none or some, it's an easy choice to choose none. That choice isn't present. Only more or less. This is the argument that those supporting what Israel is doing hold. It deals with what is, not what we would prefer is. But I do appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions.
 
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