For the believer, when does God forgive sins?

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Pilgrimshope

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It's valid. It just doesn't mean as you suppose. I've already explained this. The verses are not speaking about salvation. As part of teaching the disciples to pray, Jesus teaches them to pray asking forgiveness of God and doing so according to the way they forgive others. So what is His point?
In forgiving others, we allow for reconciliation and fellowship with the one who has offended. In like manner, God does so for us. But when we expect forgiveness for ourselves but do not do so for others, God recognizes our insincerity. How can we say we love God and yet are not loving others. Love covers a multitude of sin and keeps no record of wrongs. It suffers long. God is not mocked. We reap what we sow. If we desire reconciliation and fellowship with God, we should also want this with our brothers and sisters.

But none of this affects our relationship with God. When my children disobey, aren't they still my children? In my discipline of them they don't get to enjoy the fulness of the blessing of our relationship, but they never lose the security of the relationship. By birth, they are my children. That fact will never change. In our spiritual birth, we become in time and space the children of God. This will always be true of us. We may not always be able to receive the fulness of the blessing that attends our relationship with the Father, but we will forever have Him as Father.
I know brother every verse that shows you what I’m saying , you explain away and then claim you believe it until I wuote it again then you again explain why it isn’t true or doesn’t apply

We really are going in a circle maybe we’ll find a different thread where we don’t go in a constant circle

Either way I love you brother In christ yoire a great guy and have a good spirit always thought so still think so
 

Cameron143

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I see yeah apparently they have some nice glasses for viewing scripture and defining everything they don’t want to hear
Or perhaps...all that scripture has to say on a subject must be reconciled to understand the meaning of scripture?
 

Cameron143

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I know brother every verse that shows you what I’m saying , you explain away and then claim you believe it until I wuote it again then you again explain why it isn’t true or doesn’t apply

We really are going in a circle maybe we’ll find a different thread where we don’t go in a constant circle

Either way I love you brother In christ yoire a great guy and have a good spirit always thought so still think so
I don't disagree with scripture; I disagree with your understanding of it. For instance, who are the dead who hear His voice? Is it people buried in cemeteries? Or is it dead people described in Ephesians 2:1-3?
 

Pilgrimshope

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I don't disagree with scripture; I disagree with your understanding of it. For instance, who are the dead who hear His voice? Is it people buried in cemeteries? Or is it dead people described in Ephesians 2:1-3?
Yea like I said maybe one day I’ll be able to understand what it actually says
 

Cameron143

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Yea brother one day I’ll learn to understand what the Bible really says
I haven't remained in this discussion to demean or belittle you, but to suggest some things you may not have considered. As this has not been the case, I'll stop my part in the discussion.
I do consider you a friend and can tell by the tenor of your discourse that your desire was and is my good. I thank you for that.
Grace and peace.
 

Cameron143

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Grace is not a person. It may have been evident in Jesus without measure, but Jesus never said I am the grace.
 

Pilgrimshope

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I haven't remained in this discussion to demean or belittle you, but to suggest some things you may not have considered. As this has not been the case, I'll stop my part in the discussion.
I do consider you a friend and can tell by the tenor of your discourse that your desire was and is my good. I thank you for that.
Grace and peace.
There’s no offense brother don’t think that , we’re just going in circles there’s nothing I can learn to turn me away from the things Jesus said will save us like this

“For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭NIV‬‬

thats just true and I can never be convinced otherwise even if someone reasons why that isn’t true , it’s true that’s Gods judgement tbat can save sinners

along with things like this

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:9‬ ‭NIV‬‬

a when I hear things like this coming from my lord and savior and his apostles . I’m not then looking for a reason I can avoid it or disregard it or make it different I believe what it says brother

i knowntoyr sayong “ I don’t disagree with any scriptire just your interpretations “

show would you interpret this clear statement by the lord ?

“For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.


But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.”


It’s binary and plainly stated there’s no interpretation to be made there is a decision I believe this because Jesus taught it or I don’t .

It isn’t Moses law those things are what Moses said and commanded in the old testement

Jesus is the mediator between God and man we have to put oir faith in Jesus and his true words that give us salvation

“how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first preached by the Lord,

was confirmed to us by those who heard him.( apostles )

God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭NIV‬‬

there’s no other path but what jesus told us in the gospel of you want to interpret the things he said brother that’s your freedom to do so but they don’t need any interpretation they need belief I would never go back from the things he said I know that’s life

There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.””
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬

Im gonna ride the believing Jesus and the gospel boat brother of it sinks I’ll go down with it …..but he says it’ll float so I believe it will . But I’ll trust his word
 

studentoftheword

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Grace is not a person. It may have been evident in Jesus without measure, but Jesus never said I am the grace.
Your ignorance of understanding is showing here -----


John 1:17

Amplified Bible



17 For the Law was given through Moses, but grace [the unearned, undeserved favor of God] and truth came through Jesus Christ.
 

Cameron143

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Your ignorance of understanding is showing here -----


John 1:17

Amplified Bible



17 For the Law was given through Moses, but grace [the unearned, undeserved favor of God] and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Somebody's ignorance is showing. I never said grace didn't come through Jesus. I merely stated that grace is not a person. Your own proof text confirms it.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Your ignorance of understanding is showing here -----

John 1:17

Amplified Bible

17 For the Law was given through Moses, but grace [the unearned, undeserved favor of God] and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Your obnoxiousness is showing.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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You can think that ----but the truth is in the Scripture ===knowing and understanding the Scripture is key-----
The truth is, Jesus Christ did not use the word "grace" Himself in His earthly ministry. Although John wrote that “grace
and truth came through Jesus Christ”
(John 1:17), the term is not directly attributed to Jesus in the Gospels.
 

studentoftheword

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Nov 12, 2021
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Somebody's ignorance is showing. I never said grace didn't come through Jesus. I merely stated that grace is not a person. Your own proof text confirms it.

No -----it is your lack of understanding what the meaning of the scripture is ---Jesus is Grace ----without Grace coming and doing what He accomplished on the Cross you would be going to Hell ----
 

Cameron143

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No -----it is your lack of understanding what the meaning of the scripture is ---Jesus is Grace ----without Grace coming and doing what He accomplished on the Cross you would be going to Hell ----
I agree that without the work of Jesus that I would end up in hell. Can you show me the scripture where Jesus, or anyone else calls Him grace? I see where Jesus calls Himself the way, the truth, and the life. I see where He calls Himself light and shepherd. I can't seem to find where He calls Himself grace. Can you locate that for me please?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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I agree that without the work of Jesus that I would end up in hell. Can you show me the scripture where Jesus, or
anyone else calls Him grace? I see where Jesus calls Himself the way, the truth, and the life. I see where He calls
Himself light and shepherd. I can't seem to find where He calls Himself grace. Can you locate that for me please?
Maybe they meant gate. Nah. Prolly not. They just be slammin'. That's their jam. Wham bam.
 

Chester

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May 23, 2016
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What of those who die in unbelief? Are they also forgiven? I ask because I have seen you say many times that unbelief is not an (or the) unforgivable sin. Naturally I wonder then what becomes of the unbeliever at the time of death in your understanding... What is their standing before God?
Believing in Jesus is the only way to eternal life. If a person dies without belief in Jesus, I do not see any way they would have eternal life.
 

Chester

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May 23, 2016
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I really appreciate you saying this. I had never looked up the word myself, but have posted
that very definition still the same, going back a few years here. I found some of them:


One Two Three Four Five Six Seven Eight .<= each of those number words is a link .:D

You have not been very active lately, I have noticed. I hope you are well!
Thank you! I am doing well - just extremely busy - pastoring, teaching, and other work.