Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

How do you reconcile that with Romans 8:7?

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." John 6 verse 44 The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2 verse 14 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 verse 7-8

 

[Magenta]

God [fore]KNOWING people has nothing to do with his foreknowledge or prescience. God simply eternally KNOWS
(before time began) in a personal, intimate, filial, covenantal way his chosen people. Jesus brings this idea out in
his Good Shepherd Discourse when he waxed personal by saying that he knows everyone of his sheep by name, etc.

Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.

 

[Rufus]

Wrong again....which of course is an inevitable consequence of believing the Calvinist lie that God is inherently evil, and the source of all evil, that God creates evil, that God plans are evil.

The Biblically accurate account indicates that God is holding court, that is the setting, and it was Satan who dared to bring accusations against God.
Furthermore, it is Satan who was looking for trouble, not God. And it was Satan who promoted the scheme to test Job, not God.

[Job 1:6 KJV] COURTROOM SETTING, the heavenly host as spectators
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

[Job 1:7 KJV] SATAN SEEKING TO DO HARM
And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

[Job 1:8 KJV] GOD MAKES HIS DEFENSE
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

[Job 1:9 KJV] SATAN'S ACCUSATION before the court
Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

[Job 1:10 KJV] SATAN'S ACCUSATION before the court
Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

[Job 1:11 KJV] SATAN ***fails*** to force God's hand to do evil
But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

[Job 1:12 KJV] God refuses, and it is SATAN who is the one to do the evil things
And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath [is] in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

JOB PASSES THE TEST, GOD IS GLORIFIED, SATAN FAILS.

[Job 1:20 KJV]
Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,

[Job 1:21 KJV]
And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.

[Job 1:22 KJV]
In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

**************************************************************************

And BTW, every living entity in this episode demonstrates FREE WILL. God, Satan, Job, Jobs wife and friends.

You're delusional. First off, you read "court" into the passage. What else is new?

Secondly, whose DEFENSE is God making: His own or Job's?

Thirdly, you failed to answer my question re Job 1:12: Would Satan have had that power of destruction, mayhem and chaos if God had not granted it to him?

 

[BillyBob]

I remember when I was in the 8th or 9th grade, I was asked by another student do I believe Jesus died for all people or just some people. I simply said “John 3:16”. The student was taking a sip of his soft drink as I said that and shook his head in agreement, somewhat smacking the lunch table a couple of times as if his hand was a gavel lol. Had no idea how anyone could believe differently due to John 3:16. Decades later, I now know that was a question derived from Calvinism. You have to be taught to believe it doesn’t mean that.

If Jesus died for all, please ask yourself why most will be punished? If He took their sins away, why will most be punished? Can two people be charged for the same sin? Did Christ die for their sins and then punish them anyway?

 

[cv5]

You're delusional. First off, you read "court" into the passage. What else is new?

Secondly, whose DEFENSE is God making: His own or Job's?

Thirdly, you failed to answer my question re Job 1:12: Would Satan have had that power of destruction, mayhem and chaos if God had not granted it to him?

Your stupendously profound Biblical illiteracy permeates EVERY SINGLE POST that you proffer, this much is true.
The fact of which I intend on demonstrating to the best of my ability so that all see the awful wretchedness that is Calvinism.

 

[Blue155]

If Jesus died for all, please ask yourself why most will be punished? If He took their sins away, why will most be punished? Can two people be charged for the same sin? Did Christ die for their sins and then punish them anyway?

your questions can and have been easily answered by many, but will you accept the answers? I suspect not. Goodnight.

 

[Magenta]

If Jesus died for all, please ask yourself why most will be punished? If He took their sins away, why will most be punished?
Can two people be charged for the same sin? Did Christ die for their sins and then punish them anyway?

BilyBob, you must contradict and deny what the Bible says or you are not saved, repent of believing the Bible! .

 

[BillyBob]

your questions can and have been easily answered by many, but will you accept the answers? I suspect not. Goodnight.

Talk about a copout!

 

[Rufus]

I'm beginning to think you don't know what we mean by free will.

There certainly is no will without restraint, not even God's. If you think we are saying free will is a will without restraint and no authority, then you are mistaken.

Here's a novel idea: Since you now confess that no one's will is free in the absolute sense, we should call man volition his will. How's that? All of us here (I think) believes that we do make all kinds of choices all our lives.

 

[Blue155]

It’s not there are not any answers, it’s just that most people refuse to accept the answers, because they don’t want to admit their beliefs are contrary to God’s word. Hopefully someday.

 

[Rufus]

Your stupendously profound Biblical illiteracy permeates EVERY SINGLE POST that you proffer, this much is true.
The fact of which I intend on demonstrating to the best of my ability so that all see the awful wretchedness that is Calvinism.

Strike TWO, Mr. Empty Suit. See how ignorant you truly are of the scriptures? You cannot even answer the most honest and straightforward questions put to you.

 

[Magenta]

John 3 verse 6, Romans 8 verse 7, Galatians 5 verse 17, 2 Timothy 3 verse 13, Romans 3 verse 18 ~ Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. The mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. The flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other. Evil men and imposters go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. There is no fear of God before their eyes.

 

[Magenta]

It’s not there are not any answers, it’s just that most people refuse to accept the answers, because they don’t want to admit their beliefs are contrary to God’s word. Hopefully someday.

The free will camp assumes, with no supporting text and contrary to many verses that evidence the opposite, that the man of flesh is free to choose, and will believe, that which he can neither receive nor comprehend, and to which he is inherently opposed with his uncircumcised heart of stone. There is simply no getting around the fact that this is the core of their belief, and it flies in the face of what Scripture actually teaches about the natural man who is a slave to sin and lover of darkness refusing to come into the light, blinded to truth and under the power and influence of Satan: he serves the law of sin which brings forth fruit unto death, not life. Without the indwelling Holy Spirit of God, his incurably wicked heart cannot be changed. He hates God, rejects the light, and hears the gospel message as foolishness. Praise the Lord if He has set you free!

 

[Jordon]

God [fore]KNOWING people has nothing to do with his foreknowledge or prescience. God simply eternally KNOWS (before time began) in a personal, intimate, filial, covenantal way his chosen people. Jesus brings this idea out in his Good Shepherd Discourse when he waxed personal by saying that he knows everyone of his sheep by name, etc.

hold on a sec, he simply knows yes that's true, but that still doesn't imply it has nothing to do with him for-knowing us. As we still have to live out what he knows about us.

The fact that we sin was never his will, we sin because we corrupted the seed by not listening to his will which he simply knew but he was still knowing Adam when he did it.

For-knowing means he already knew,. So in both instances God is living out what he already knows, but he knows what he knows, man is living out what God knows but he doesn't know what God knows.


prescience or for-knowledge are both the same meaning m

For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

You can't remove for-knowing from what he already simply knew for him. Because we still have to live out what he knows

You can remove it for you but not for him.

 

[cv5]

Strike TWO, Mr. Empty Suit. See how ignorant you truly are of the scriptures? You cannot even answer the most honest and straightforward questions put to you.

Fools love fooling one another, and themselves. The wise behold the wreched spectacle shuddering with chagrin.

 

[Genez]

Fools love fooling one another, and themselves. The wise behold the wreched spectacle shuddering with chagrin.

It all comes down to who is desiring and willing to learn sound doctrine...

Or, will not tolerate sound doctrine, and will seek out something that sits right with how they prefer things to be understood.

For the time will come when they will not put up with sound doctrine. ​

Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number ​

of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3​

​

There is a way which seems right to a man and appears straight before him, ​

But its end is the way of death. Proverbs 14:12​

That's the recipe's ingredients.

 

[Jordon]

@Rufus im struggling here

Are you saying God has willed people to sin by not electing them before he forknew them

 

[Cameron143]

Who is telling you that millions of people throughout history have not heard of The Lord Jesus Christ?

You completely neglect the witness of His Spirit. Thank God for His witness, the calvies don't help Him much.

So...all the natives in America who never heard of Jesus until settlers came to the New World all were witnessed to by the Spirit. Makes one wonder why the settlers didn't find them worshipping Jesus when they arrived.

 

[Kroogz]

Help? How about deny, resist, defy, and war against God, the truth about His Salvation FREELY GIVEN, and "bury the talent", the greatest of all sins possible in this life?

I completely agree. Religion is Satan's ace trump.

 

[Kroogz]

So...all the natives in America who never heard of Jesus until settlers came to the New World all were witnessed to by the Spirit. Makes one wonder why the settlers didn't find them worshipping Jesus when they arrived.

Why don't people worship Him today? Heck, the majority here say He only died for a select few.....not much worshipping going on with that.