Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
@Cameron143, I have nothing against you in any way. You have been respectful and cordial, without making it personal like many do online. Thanks for the discussion. I wish you great health, unexpected blessings, and much love.
 
Rufus said:
Well...where did all the wanna-be scholars, pseudo-intellectuals, and lovers of those with Piled High and Dry parchments to their name disappear to? I'm still waiting waiting for some FWer to explain how God's eternal decrees in Act 4:27-28 doesn't make Him culpable of sin -- the sin of the murder of his only Son? It appears my tough question is above FWers' pay grade, which is why they cry in their beer so much over my questions. Tsk, tsk, tsk. But...this is predictable because God has chosen the foolish things of this world to shame the wise, the weak things of this world to shame the strong, and He chose the lowly and despised things and things that are not to nullify the things that are, so that no one will boast before Him (1Cor 1:27-29).

Well...if the Acts 4 passage is too tough for you to refute with your false gospel, how 'bout trying Job 1 on for size? Did not God place all things in the hands of his arch enemy and adversary, save for bringing physical injury to Job himself? And Satan fully made use of the power God granted him, didn't he? The devil destroyed the lives of animals, livestock, servants of Job and his immediate family itself. Therefore, given these irrefutable facts, explain how God's decree to Satan doesn't make Him morally culpable for all the havoc, chaos and destruction of lives that the devil caused by divine permission. How does God's divine prerogative free him from accusation and even condemnation!?

Don't be shy FWers, step up to the batters' box and take your best swings. Or...if you still feel you're not up to such a daunting task, contact your favorite PhD teachers/pastors to come here and answer my questions. Maybe they'll act as your "learned" substitutes. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
No you've got that all wrong.
It was Satan who, of his own initiative , his own desire, his own volition, concocted an EVIL scheme to test (and destroy) Job and thereby discredit God. God certainly was NOT part of Satan's conspiracy.

God, by an expression of His own free will, limited the FREE WILL expression of Satan's evil.....an act that is GOOD.

Condemning God as the source and origin of evil is the PRIMARY DOCTRINE of the Calvinists. Some admit that this is their dogma, some do not. But it is lurking in the background always.
 
Cameron143 said:
Never said He did. And if God's will is not free, how much less the human will.
Click to expand...

I wonder if Sawdust believes if God's will is in bondage to His holy nature and therefore, cannot be free to choose contrary to that nature? :rolleyes:
 
Rufus said:
It doesn't mean it. Besides, the Gr. term "kosmos" (for world) has at leat 8 or 9 different definitions. How convenient that so many people zero in on just one of them
Click to expand...

Hi all,

The subject of "free will" i don't believe in free will. If it is free will, then can God's grace saved our free will?

Whoever sin, God will punish, even the heir of Abraham shall not be spare.
Hebrews 2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. 2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; 3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

Kind regards
Clay
 
Here's usually how online conversations end up. You either have both people who are rude and mean, or you have someone who is kind and loving, but then the other person is not so kind and not so loving. Then you have someone who starts the conversation out nice and friendly and loving, and then all of a sudden the conversation takes a turn for the worst, and the kind and loving individual ends up not being so kind and loving anymore. Participants can get real defensive. And so this is why online conversations really are not that good to have. Same for texting.
 
mindofflesh.png

The mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God. Romans 8 v 6-8 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 2 v 13-14
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cameron143
Blue155 said:
You have to be taught to believe it doesn’t mean that.
Click to expand...

E.X.A.C.T.L.Y

And virtually every calvie will say," I came up with it on my own. My own studies."

Satan came up with the idea that the Lord Jesus Christ did not die for all......Men followed and are promoting that lie.
 
cv5 said:
No you've got that all wrong.
It was Satan who, of his own initiative , his own desire, his own volition, concocted an EVIL scheme to test (and destroy) Job and thereby discredit God. God certainly was NOT part of Satan's conspiracy.

God, by an expression of His own free will, limited the FREE WILL expression of Satan's evil.....an act that is GOOD.

Condemning God as the source and origin of evil is the PRIMARY DOCTRINE of the Calvinists. Some admit that this is their dogma, some do not. But it is lurking in the background always.
Click to expand...
So when God asked Satan if he had considered His servant Job, that was God not initiating?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rufus
cv5 said:
No you've got that all wrong.
It was Satan who, of his own initiative , his own desire, his own volition, concocted an EVIL scheme to test (and destroy) Job and thereby discredit God. God certainly was NOT part of Satan's conspiracy.

God, by an expression of His own free will, limited the FREE WILL expression of Satan's evil.....an act that is GOOD.

Condemning God as the source and origin of evil is the PRIMARY DOCTRINE of the Calvinists. Some admit that this is their dogma, some do not. But it is lurking in the background always.
Click to expand...

You don't read too swell, do you? First of all, it was God who stuck Satan on Job -- not the other way around (Job 1:8). God instigated the devil, remember? :rolleyes:

Secondly, could Satan have done anything evil to anything Job had or to anyone who belonged to Job apart from God granting him the permission to do so (Job 1:12)?

Strike One. You've got two more shot, Mr. Empty Suit.
 
Blue155 said:
Here's usually how online conversations end up. You either have both people who are rude and mean, or you have someone who is kind and loving, but then the other person is not so kind and not so loving. Then you have someone who starts the conversation out nice and friendly and loving, and then all of a sudden the conversation takes a turn for the worst, and the kind and loving individual ends up not being so kind and loving anymore. Participants can get real defensive. And so this is why online conversations really are not that good to have. Same for texting.
Click to expand...
You know, 99% of churches teach moral life. And One will NEVER learn spiritual life through moral life.

BUT

Learning the Spiritual way life will ALWAYS lead to a moral life.

And Spiritual life will always "offend" those who only know moral life.

This is why we see all the babies being offended and have multiple "crossing guards" around.
 
Dino246 said:
Firstly, my comment, "Huh" was to another person's post, not yours.

Secondly, it neither implies liking or disliking. It expresses the need for further clarity, relevance, or both.
Click to expand...
I suggest that if you want your posts to be private, Then dont post in a public forum.

And if you think nobody should comment on your posts to other people here, why should you have the right to comment on my posts I make to people.
 
1Corinthians2-14.png

The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians ch 2 v 14
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cameron143
Blue155 said:
No, but it does prove one can choose to do good to others before they are a Christian
Click to expand...

Scripture says NO ONE does Good! You know why? Because NO ONE is good, save God alone. All unregenerate men's righteousness (good works) are filthy rags in God's sight because those works were not done out of love for God or for his glory.
 
Kroogz said:
Huh. The God haters and totally depraved are deaf and blind to all your "attempts."

But it looks good on your resume?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily so. Just because a messenger of God is not privy to His secret things doesn't mean that God won't move the hearts of his elect to believe and repent. My primary focus is not on God's eternal SECRET decrees re individuals. Instead I focus on what I KNOW -- and I know everyone on this planet is in dire need of God's salvation.
 
Cameron143 said:
The first part just reiterated what I said.

The second part is also a reiteration of what I said with a twist.
Click to expand...

No, I say there is free will but "unabated" freewill doesn't exist because that would not be free, it would be chaotic will.

The second part was a question. What are you using to make a choice if not your will? You have yet to tell us that. How can you choose if you are not free to do so? Choice demands freedom.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OLDBUTNEW
cv5 said:
But it is lurking in the background always.
Click to expand...

Excellent.

For anyone who goes the full mile with Calvinism, it is not lurking.....It is the ultimate and final conclusion.

It seems to "lurk" because of the complexities and word salads used to cover up this final conclusion.
 
Rufus said:
No, it is not! God decreed (or wrote, if you will) the entire redemptive history of the human race in eternity -- before time began.

Besides, what bad thing did Jesus do? Or when or how did Jesus not do his Father's perfect will 24/7/365?

As the Lord's ambassadors and servants, we should always pray that the Holy Spirit will sanctify our imaginations before attempting to understand any given passage.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure you've understood what I said.

Did you imply that God willed the people to reject the lord Before the earth began ?


What I said was, where you see suggestions of that in the bible, is that not a figurative speech.

For instance Jesus spoke in figurative speeches.

Figurative speech

God speaking, You will by nature do what own will, will do, which is reject Jesus if you don't have my will.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back